Fukushima melting down?

Fishermen in Mexico have found rare conjoined grey whale calves that died shortly after being born.
Benito Bermudez, a marine biologist, says the whales were found alive in the Ojo de Liebre lagoon in the Baja California peninsula but lived only a few hours.

Associated Press in Mexico City
theguardian.com, Thursday 9 January 2014 03.51 EST




http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2014/jan/09/conjoined-grey-whale-calves-found-mexico
 
dnmun said:
it really is too bad that the entire core mass did not go into the ocean so the ocean would be so radioactive that they would have to stop killing all the fish. i think it is the only way the ecosystem could survive, if the tuna became radioactive. it would not do much harm to the animals but the public hysteria would save the fishes.
Thats genius, it probably doesn't come up as news much in the northern hemisphere but in Australia there is a green peace vs Japan whaling fleet attack news story on the main news basically every other day (at least at the moment).
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/whale-watch/japanese-whaling-ship-attacks-sea-shepherd-boat-20140202-31uni.html
art-whale_bodies-620x349.jpg

I say it is genius because if whales did have a touch of radio active goodness in all these large sea mammals the Japanese wouldn't harvest them any more to serve in their school lunches etc.
images.jpg

[youtube]4IUxK_0WLbg[/youtube]
 
I was thinking with all this Japan typhoons and extreme wind, rain maybe a lot of Fukushimas radio active contaminants could get washed back into the sea?

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-29497179

[youtube]uUdq9xmFyj8[/youtube]
 
if it washed into the sea then there is less to clean up on land. now if the fish would just cooperate and become radioactive so that it will stop the slaughter of their species then it will be a goodly thing after all.
 
dnmun said:
if it washed into the sea then there is less to clean up on land. now if the fish would just cooperate and become radioactive so that it will stop the slaughter of their species then it will be a goodly thing after all.

Something about the ocean and radioactivity may not let that happen. I saw a documentary a couple of years ago that explored the highly radioactive contamination of the bikini atoll islands. (I can't remember the title... :oops: )

The land itself was still uninhabitable for long term inhabitants, but the ships that were sunk by the "Baker" project were not any more radioactive then the ocean's natural background radiation.....a fact that confounds the experts because the ships that were under the baker blast should be highly radioactive. Consequently the USS Saratoga is dive-able.


http://www.theguardian.com/travel/2002/aug/06/travelnews.nuclearindustry.environment
Bikini's "nuclear fleet" mainstay is the USS Saratoga, which at 900ft in length is the world's only diveable aircraft carrier. Also gracing the bottom of Bikini's lagoon is Japanese Admiral Yamamoto's 708ft flagship, the battleship Nagato, from where the infamous admiral heard the cries in 1941 of "Tora! Tora! Tora!" signaling that the attack on Pearl Harbour was underway.

Edit:

[youtube]ORv0LCc0DDw[/youtube]
 
i had this vision of all those huge cesium contaminated water storage tanks all up and down the hill side at fukishima and had this vision of a mudslide from the 38" of rain on the hill side tonight as the typhoon gets stuck there.

then one after the other all of these tanks sliding into each other and rupturing and that pushes one after the other over like dominoes. all that cesium going directly into the ocean across the dike they erected.

nothing less will protect the fish, tuna may be able to recover. imagine if the whales became radioactive and they could not eat them.
 
e-beach said:
Something about the ocean and radioactivity may not let that happen. I saw a documentary a couple of years ago that explored the highly radioactive contamination of the bikini atoll islands. (I can't remember the title... :oops: )

The land itself was still uninhabitable for long term inhabitants, but the ships that were sunk by the "Baker" project were not any more radioactive then the ocean's natural background radiation.....a fact that confounds the experts because the ships that were under the baker blast should be highly radioactive. Consequently the USS Saratoga is dive-able
That is interesting isn't it. They did some dredging in melbournes port Philip bay a few years back because big ships couldn't get in the bay anymore, but it was half stopped by a group called blue wedges who argued it wasn't safe to dredge because it would hurt sea life and the rocks on the seabed etc.
But I guess if they could of just drilled a hole deep enough and let a nuke off they could of dropped the sea floor by 20meters and not cause any superficial damage, then everyone would of been happy.
Nukes, is there any problem they can't solve?
 
Tracking the Fukushima radioactivity plume across the Pacific

http://phys.org/news/2014-12-tracking-fukushima-radioactivity-plume-pacific.html

How long did it take a radioactive plume to travel the waters of the Pacific from Fukushima, Japan, to the shores of North America?

The answer, according to a new study published in PNAS, is about 2.1 years.

After an earthquake-triggered tsunami damaged the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power plant in March 2011, a team of Canadian scientists saw an opportunity to put models of Pacific Ocean current speeds to the test.

After the tsunami struck, the plant released cesium 134 and cesium 137 into the ocean. The researchers knew that a small percentage of this radioactive material would be carried by currents across the Pacific, eventually reaching the west coast of North America.

Computer models could predict when this might happen, but by taking actual samples of the ocean water and testing them for cesium 134 and cesium 137 the scientists could see for certain when it happened.

"We had a situation where the radioactive tracer was deposited at a very specific location off the coast of Japan at a very specific time," said John Smith, a research scientist at the Bedford Institute of Oceanography in Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, and the lead author of the paper.

"It was kind of like a dye experiment," he added. "And it is unambiguous - you either see the signal or you don't, and when you see it you know exactly what you are measuring."

Just three months after the tsunami, Smith and his team began sampling ocean water from as far as 1,500 kilometers (930 miles) off the coast of British Columbia. They took measurements from the same sites every June from 2011 to 2013, collecting 60 liters of water and then analyzing it for traces of cesium 134 and cesium 137.

In June of 2011 they detected no signature from the Fukushima disaster at any of the test sites. In June of 2012 they found small amounts of the Fukushima radiation at the westernmost station, but it had not moved any closer to shore. By June of 2013, however, it had spread all the way to the continental shelf of Canada.

The amount of radiation that finally made it to Canada's west coast by June 2013 was very small - less than 1 Becquerels per cubic meter. (Becquerels are the number of decay events per second per 260 gallons of water.) That is more than 1,000 times lower than acceptable limits in drinking water, according to the Environmental Protection Agency.

Computer models that match fairly closely with the hard data that Smith collected suggest that the amount of radiation will peak in 2015 and 2016 in British Columbia, but it will never exceed about 5 Becquerels per cubic meter.

"Those levels of cesium 137 are still well below natural levels of radioactivity in the ocean," said Smith.

Because of the structure of the currents, the radiation levels in Southern California are expected to peak a few years later, but by that time they will be even smaller than the highest levels of radiation expected in Canada.

"Even when levels are small like this, it is important to collect systematic data so we can better predict how another event might move through the ocean," said Ken Buesseler, a marine chemist at Woods Hole Oceanographic Institute, who was not involved in the study.

Buesseler leads a citizen scientist group called Our Radioactive Oceans, to track the arrival of the Fukushima radioactivity plume in the U.S. He noted that his group's results matched Smith's.

"What we really need for understanding what happens after events like Fukushima is data like this on a regular basis," he said.
 
"Pandoras Promise" is worth watching when you have the time. This is a documentary on energy that you have to pay to watch elsewhere, I guess it was in the theaters at some time in the past like Al Gore Inconvenient Truth.

It seems quite accurate in facts from what I have been able to find. As they talk about UN certified numbers of how many people died in Chernobyl etc which I have posted up here in the past I would say.

It could possibly be disliked by extreme green groups. They show footage of an old Aussie green group lady screaming about how 1 million people died in Chernobyl etc, which I think does capture the typical type of person like that quite well as they seem to have never been taught basic science knowledge and wouldn't understand it if their life depended on it. And then of course after protesting go home smoking a cigarette and get a sun tan later that day.

It hit like a dart all the bits that sit in the back of my head, talked about the numbers of people who die from coal based energy which I think about a lot actually because there has been a lot of news of cancer clusters around the coal mines in Australia due to all coal mining activity (caused by inhaling nasty tiny particles), no ones ever been able to find anything else to pin it on and its interesting inverted fact to me that most people aren't afraid of coal because we believe we understand coal, its simple crud that we burn, yet it seems to have a very real invisible boogieman living it it that kills people yet most people would much rather live next to an active coal mine then a nuclear power plant.

If anything I found the documentary a tad creepy because it has the same facts I have found and I challenge any one to find something that was seriously misleading in fact from this video, sure it doesn't go into detail of how so many more people have died from coal or even solar panels compared to nuclear energy but that is another quest in its self.

http://www.theage.com.au/tv/Documentary/Pandoras-Promise-5000080.html
If you can't watch it on there I found pops up on torrents with search words "Pandoras Promise", I watched it on both but flicked over to torrent for super HD viewing.

Here is the Official trailer on youtube.

[youtube]bDw3ET3zqxk[/youtube]

Here below seems to be the actual full movie on youtube, with Mexican subtitles I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiNRdmaJkrM
 
since i spent a lot of time around radioactive sources and understand the risk i always am amazed at the total and absolute fear that 'RADIOACTIVE' creates in all of the population with no training.

more people die of alcoholism every day than have been killed by radiation. cars kill more people every day than died from chernobyl.

flying in an airplane exposes you to high levels of cosmic background radiation normally shielded by the atmosphere.
but news headlines are easier on the mind to understand.
 
It's logical that people fear radiation unless they know better: it's an undetectable (to our senses) cumulative poison, that potentially remains deadly for thousands of years. Very different to a car crash and much harder to reckon with. Education and knowledge is the only answer.
 
Looks like Japan is getting ready to restart another two reactors.
http://www.world-nuclear-news.org/RS-Two-more-Japanese-reactors-cleared-for-restart-1202155.html
4371107_std.jpg
Theres heavy public opinion on turning back on their reactors, kind of reminds me of the original Total Recall,
where that Cohaagen guy says, "Don't do it!, We'll all die!, Everybody will die!"
Despite the fact that when the glass dome is blown and he is hanging for dear life from being sucked out, its the only thing that could save his life at that moment, he is a man so riddled with greed, fear and lust of power he is completely blinded by it and would rather ends up looking like this, then turning it on.



It was these themes and insights that were totally missed by the remake that made me completely devastated by the remade movie.

That video from my last post, in super convenient click mode.
[youtube]QiNRdmaJkrM[/youtube]
 
Looks like we'll be getting nukes and a waste dump, in our back yard soon, which i'm all for, if there was actually Gen IV, waste burning reactors available (near all matter to energy conversion).
The 'mature' debate, (royal commission), coming soon, I think is well overdue, as we've digging out uranium, in four mines here, in SA, but been shipping this shit for decades to everyone else, but its been to hazardous for us WTF, excepting for bund wall spoilage seeping into the environment at those mines and the massive Maralinga clean up by the British government, circa nuke testing and irradiating, purposefully, service personnel, we have no real history of incidents :?

The uranium branch of the business minerals council will be happy, expecting mainly if everyone is still using old tech,
Gen III setups around the globe, still wasting yellowcake inefficiently and still creating 100's 000's of tons of waste.
 
TheBeastie said:
Thats genius, it probably doesn't come up as news much in the northern hemisphere but in Australia there is a green peace vs Japan whaling fleet attack news story on the main news basically every other day (at least at the moment).
http://www.smh.com.au/environment/whale-watch/japanese-whaling-ship-attacks-sea-shepherd-boat-20140202-31uni.html

I say it is genius because if whales did have a touch of radio active goodness in all these large sea mammals the Japanese wouldn't harvest them any more to serve in their school lunches etc.

I guess your news source got it backwards. There's been a reality TV show here in the U.S. on Animal Planet of the Sea Shepard organization attacking the Japanese ships for YEARS. It shows the activists planning their attacks and carrying them out. They have entangled propellers, damaged ships in several ways, even sank smaller craft. I'm amazed at the patience of the Japanese; if it was American ships under such attack, F-18's would have sunk the Sea Shepard and the Bob Barker and the rest some time ago.

"Criminals should not get tax concessions – if you break the law, then donations to your organisation should not be tax deductible"
- Senator Barnaby Joyce Australia

Before radiation it was mercury. That didn't stop them. Someday the fish will have mutated into mostly plastic as they evolve to digest that stuff in the ocean. The Japanese will develop a taste for it. . . .
 
"Criminals should not get tax concessions – if you break the law, then donations to your organisation should not be tax deductible"
- Senator Barnaby Joyce Australia

Barnaby Joyce, Abbott & the rest of the LNP ilk are criminals themselves, unrepresentative swill for the top end of town.
Stooges for international corporates that extract what they can from nations and it's citizens.
The only reason they are in government and stay in government here, is powerful lobbying and bankrolling.
The only people here, that support them are the minority sociopathic or delusionals that still follow the fourth state Murdoch owned, majority media and believe the propaganda they read or watch.
The federal election was proof of what these depraved corporates will do to get their far right, bourgouise representatives in power.
 
Here is a pretty good documentary on Uranium. Its called "Uranium: Twisting the Dragon's Tail"
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Uranium%3A+Twisting+the+Dragon%27s+Tail&oq=Uranium%3A+Twisting+the+Dragon%27s+Tail&aqs=chrome..69i57j69i58j69i60.3701310j0j7&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=93&ie=UTF-8

http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/video/491544131832/uranium-twisting-the-dragons-tail

Like most physicists he comes across not really afraid of uranium at all unlike most folk are conditioned to be as he holds it casually in his hands and even baths in it. Like I have said a coal power plant emits a 100 times amount of radio active particles into the air that populations breath then compared to a nuclear plant but the average guy would much rather live next to a coal plant or a coal mine despite the statistical high amounts cancer clusters that revolve around coal infrastructure.

It ends with the bomb being dropped on Hiroshima Japan, I think it is not uncanny that the US chose Hiroshima as it was the closest major city right next to a very secret base where the Japanese produced 6,000 tons of poison gas like Mustard gas that they then used kill around 100,000 Chinese during world war 2. To me it was awaiting little nasty surprise the Japanese military were going to unleash once USA troops got closer to mainland Japan in their masses...

I often think about these little facts when I see people get very upset at the USA over dropping the bomb on Japan when I really see them as ill knowledge extreme 'black and white' thinkers.
This guy comes to mind the most as lately is Scott McIntyre who worked for SBS the Australian tax payer funded TV station. Most have seen him as was some what a TV celebrity being the face of SBS sports during daily reports of all things sports on TV.

On his twitter account he said this during Anzac day "Remembering the summary execution, widespread rape and theft committed by these ‘brave’ Anzacs in Egypt, Palestine and Japan. Not forgetting that the largest single-day terrorist attacks in history were committed by this nation & their allies in Hiroshima & Nagasaki"

http://www.news.com.au/national/sbs-reporter-scott-mcintyre-fired-over-anzac-tweets/story-fncynjr2-1227321537612

He is now suing SBS for being fired, its going to be interesting to see if he wins.


megacycle said:
"Criminals should not get tax concessions – if you break the law, then donations to your organisation should not be tax deductible"
- Senator Barnaby Joyce Australia

Barnaby Joyce, Abbott & the rest of the LNP ilk are criminals themselves,
Are you talking about a completely unrelated subject because your loosing your argument or something? Your post should be deleted, talking about Australian politicians has absolutely nothing to do with Fukashima and nuclear technology at all.
 
it was originally recommended by the people who developed the bomb that it be dropped over yokahama bay in front of the japanese naval academy so the naval staff responsible for conducting the war would have a demonstration of the power of the bomb. they even recommended telling the naval staff in advance to observe it.

but there was only the one uranium bomb and harry truman did not wanna 'waste it' since it would have taken another 3 years to isolate that much uranium again and it was not clear it would work either since it had never been tested.
 
IIRC use of "the bomb" was largely rationalised in peacetime afterwards to assuage the guilt around what had been the horrific extent of Total War.

Regardless, it's history and it's fallacious to judge past events by modern standards. The subject isn't really related to nuclear power other than as a case-study on mass radiation exposure and the possible risk of nuclear proliferation due to some types of nuclear reactor.
 
fukashima is another glaring case of management over ruling engineering recommendations to move the power distribution switching station from the basements up to the location of the new generators that engineering had talked management into installing higher up on the hillside above the reactors for the very case of a tsunami over topping the perimeter walls.

responsibility for the melt down can be directly attributed to the fear that TEPCO management had over more anti nuclear protests if they attempted to get permission from the guvment to move the switching station location.

so in fact the melt down was the fault of the antinuclear protesters and their behavior in japan before the tsunami.
 
Don't take this the wrong way.. but that is one of the most asinine statements I've seen by a person that can use a computer.
To blame the greed and mismanagement of TEPCO on protesters trying to point out that they shouldn't be trusted with such a gigantic issue of public safety is ridiculous. It's not like anyone went in and sabotaged the place as a protest. Nor did any one sabotage Chernobyl, or Three Miles Island, nor did they sneak the wrong kitty litter into the waste storage drums and shut down WIPP with a radiation leak. The nuclear industry managed that all on its own...
 
So Chernobyl didn't melt down and get entombed in concrete? And Three Mile Island didn't sustain a serious overheating event that vented radiation from pump failure? And WIPP isn't still currently closed with an estimated half billion dollar repair bill because somebody used the wrong kitty litter that outgassed and exploded the containment drums it was in? I didn't know my bias was ruining so many perfectly good nuclear facilities.
 
I suppose in some way the anti-nuclear protestors are to blame, in as much as everyone plays some very minor role in most world matters, but they're a long, long way down the blame list.

There have been a lot of accusations of TEPCO being in the pocket of the nuclear industry and so not properly fulfilling its obligations as an industry regulator.

You can, though, imagine the derisive laughter of the engineers when the management refused to move the switchgear along with the generators.
 
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