Funding an Electric Bike Startup in Santa Cruz, CA

I wanted to quote this narrative from Spacey on the life history of one of his builds. This is why eBikes are not ready to be consumer products. Consider that I can plunk down some change, drive a Honda Civic out of the showroom, change oil every 10,000 miles and put tires on it at 60,000 and drive it without doing much else for the first 120,000 miles. That is what consumers are used to. Develop an integrated eBike design that meets their needs AND price point, and the world will be yours. Good luck! ...

Man you would not believe the stress this bike has caused over the last year. 1 x Kelly controller blew, 1 x Signalab BMS kept melting the solder on the charging FET at 5A, 9C Halls blew due to rain in motor....had only done 50 odd miles, 1 x 16ah Headway cell would only give out half it's capacity.....and now this Hall.

It truly is indeed the bike from hell lol.

Now Spacey is capable, and an enthusiast. The consumer parks the bike at the first fault and sells it on Craig's list in 3 years for $100 to get garage space back, vowing to never touch an eBike again.
 
I'm sure you've already heard the old adage that..."the fastest way to make a small fortune is...start a business with a large fortune". I wish you luck with your venture.

Demographics: Everyone who's opinion you ask, will have lots of input, but...find the people who are actually spending money and ask THEIR opinion. I suspect in SC their are a large community of retirees who are bicycle-minded for fresh air and their health, and they have money, plus they could benefit from having a motor on the hills. Visit local bike shops there often, pretending to be a browsing customer, and observe what kind of customers are there in SC.

Justin built his business up slowly over time, while always maintaining a solid reputation for excellent customer service. A good reputation takes a long time to build, but it can be ruined quickly by just a few bad judgement calls.
 
It's really sad that I offered up a couple of years of designs and research and it didn't even warrant a second glance or comment. I guess I'm the only one that really knows what I have and how awesome it could be if it became reality but a few of the ideas are so simple that even releasing a silhouette would give them away and ruin their chance at being profitable, which would ruin their chances of being produced. If you're really serious about this, take me more seriously. I just offered you your flagship model, almost completely ready to go and designed to be zero maintenance with zero battery liability for less than 1/4 of your budget. You're not going to get a better offer than that. :idea:
 
mdd0127 said:
It's really sad that I offered up a couple of years of designs and research and it didn't even warrant a second glance or comment. I guess I'm the only one that really knows what I have and how awesome it could be if it became reality but a few of the ideas are so simple that even releasing a silhouette would give them away and ruin their chance at being profitable, which would ruin their chances of being produced. If you're really serious about this, take me more seriously. I just offered you your flagship model, almost completely ready to go and designed to be zero maintenance with zero battery liability for less than 1/4 of your budget. You're not going to get a better offer than that. :idea:

So your $100k test mule didn't even have any of the awesome simple features your trying to sell? What was the purpose of the test mule.?A lipo pack and a recumpence drive? Nothing new to see as far as I see. Wow an enclosed belt drive. That will look really dorky. Sorry man. What is this zero liability battery you speak of?
 
The test mule was to make sure that there was an electric drivetrain out there that was worthy of designing a frame around. While it performs amazingly well, ALL of the suppliers failed the test miserably as far as customer service and quality control went. It took a lot of money to set up the shop, buy the equipment, buy all of the parts for the real prototype, and keep me alive while I worked 60 hours a week. I did everything as cheaply as possible and still ended up having to spend that amount to get where I'm at now......which is homeless and broke with a bunch of insane parts and some awesome ideas.

As far as zero liability batteries go, I guess I'll let that cat out of the bag. My idea is to sell a bike with a space for whatever batteries the customer chooses and have it use parallel blocks and jst connectors for balancing. That way, the customer buys their own batteries, separate from the bike company, just like they would for an RC car and the bike manufacturer doesn't have to go through all of the DOT and liability stuff. Also, the customer could easily upgrade as new technology is released and they would have the option of many suppliers to choose from. That idea is only the tip of the iceberg.
 
May I ask what DOT stuff you're referring to? Street legal ebikes in the US do not fall under the jurisdiction of the DOT as they are no considered to be motor vehicles They are regulated by the CPSC as they are considered to be consumer goods just like regular bicycles.

Even the bikes that are not street legal, and have to be classified as off road only, should not be under the jurisdiction of the DOT.

mdd0127 said:
The test mule was to make sure that there was an electric drivetrain out there that was worthy of designing a frame around. While it performs amazingly well, ALL of the suppliers failed the test miserably as far as customer service and quality control went. It took a lot of money to set up the shop, buy the equipment, buy all of the parts for the real prototype, and keep me alive while I worked 60 hours a week. I did everything as cheaply as possible and still ended up having to spend that amount to get where I'm at now......which is homeless and broke with a bunch of insane parts and some awesome ideas.

As far as zero liability batteries go, I guess I'll let that cat out of the bag. My idea is to sell a bike with a space for whatever batteries the customer chooses and have it use parallel blocks and jst connectors for balancing. That way, the customer buys their own batteries, separate from the bike company, just like they would for an RC car and the bike manufacturer doesn't have to go through all of the DOT and liability stuff. Also, the customer could easily upgrade as new technology is released and they would have the option of many suppliers to choose from. That idea is only the tip of the iceberg.
 
To Flathill,

And how do you know what my enclosed belt drive looks like??? Maybe it just looks like an awesome swingarm???

Sorry you didn't notice the custom lipo parallel blocks...and the narrowest, quietest recumpence drive out there....or the cvt......or the special throttle that maintains full hand grip, allows bunny hops, and prevents acceleration induced runaway throttle and braking over motor power.....

If I put all of my ideas into a publicly released prototype, without proper legal protection or the ability to get into production quickly, at this early stage, they would be readily apparent to the competition, then probably stolen, reproduced poorly, and given a bad name. I know it's a lot to wrap your head around :roll:

Thanks for the ignorant negativity. The world really needs more of that. :wink:

To eugenem,

My bike design is powerful enough to keep up with, and pass, traffic. I firmly believe that this is key to safely commuting with cars and will be necessary for e-bikes to be accepted in a large scale by the American public. It will have to be registered and insured. The fact that it is extremely light and pedalable is only an added feature. Imagine a 75lb Honda cr250 with on the fly adjustable geometry and pedals. :wink:
 
mdd0127 said:
To Flathill,

And how do you know what my enclosed belt drive looks like??? Maybe it just looks like an awesome swingarm???

Sorry you didn't notice the custom lipo parallel blocks...and the narrowest, quietest recumpence drive out there....or the cvt......or the special throttle that maintains full hand grip, allows bunny hops, and prevents acceleration induced runaway throttle and braking over motor power.....

If I put all of my ideas into a publicly released prototype, without proper legal protection or the ability to get into production quickly, at this early stage, they would be readily apparent to the competition, then probably stolen, reproduced poorly, and given a bad name. I know it's a lot to wrap your head around :roll:

Thanks for the ignorant negativity. The world really needs more of that. :wink:

MDD: I'm not negative, just a skeptic. You have an awful habit of calling people ignorant who don't see your hidden genius. Belt drive in the swingarm is not new. Are any of your ideas patented? You have no IP to sell. I will not be replying to you anymore as I want to get this thread on topic. I think selling the battery separate is a good idea for small companies, but gives the customer the impression (right or wrong) that the batteries are not safe. What would you do when a customer asks for a battery? Sorry sir it too risky for me to sell those. Will the off the shelf battery have a bms? What we need is an integrated solution. Make a dream reality first, then worry about liability if there is a market.

ELLIOT: 600k is plenty to build a prototype with some off the shelf components, a custom frame, and maybe a custom integrated charger/controller/bms/display. If you have money left over a 2 speed geared hub might be a good investment.
 
FYI, ignorant isn't an insult, it's a description of reality. Sorry if it comes off wrong. Since you haven't seen what I've been working on, because I can't afford the lawyers to be able to safely show you, you are in no position to make any judgements about my ideas. Dorky or not. That's all. Just because someone can't afford the exorbitant fees associated with patenting something these days, it doesn't mean that they have no intellectual property, or in other words, ideas worth selling or having the ability to be profited from. :wink:

Please post a link to an e-bike with an enclosed belt drive within the swing arm. Not that the idea is something I'd even mess with patenting. There are better ones to put those resources into.

Regarding batteries, do customers question RC companies about why they don't include batteries? Or any of the millions of other companies that sell their products without batteries?? The BMS will be built into the bike. The customer just picks the batteries they want and plugs them in. It's a pretty simple concept.

It's really funny that you said that we need an integrated solution.......my bike is called the Solution and everything about it is integrated. :mrgreen:

I think too that all of this is totally on topic as it shows the OP what he'll have to deal with in order to get his idea off the ground. I, for some dumb reason, expected that the members of this forum would be excited about what I've been working on and would offer some support but actually it's been quite the opposite. If the creative envelope pushers from the worlds finest e-bike forum fight a new product like this tooth and nail, imagine what the ignorant general public's reaction will be. Oops, there I go using that dirty word again..... :oops:
 
There is no such thing as intellectual property. Only ideas and designs etc. Only an insane person thinks you can make a claim that limits others from making a similar arrangement of simple machines, and only a laywer would be crooked enough to con someone into paying for this imaginary BS.



Reguarding prototyping a bike, figure 10 prototypes, 10grand per proto or less if youre not a fool about things. With each new version your design improves. This will arrive you at a bike you like.

Then you make parts drawings of each piece with specs of materials and temper and finish etc. Send to a variety of asian mfgs. Find one who quotes the prices in volumes and tooling etc to meet your budget needs and order samples. Get your sample parts and find what is good or bad about them, assemble test bikes, and test them to ensure they perform the same as your prototypes performance that you were happy with. Order parts in quanity to do your first run. Assemble them yourself and make killer viral videos to market them.

Its not impossible. It only takes a fortune if youre foolish. It will take a ton of work. The world needs badass electric bicycles. Make them.
 
That all sounds good if you're using cheap parts and building something ordinary.....and want to take the chance and hope that the asian manufacturers don't just start producing your bike themselves.

Also, ordering anything in quantity costs a fortune......good programs with fea capability cost a fortune........guys that are good at cad and machining and electronics development cost a fortune....machines/tooling costs a fortune. I'm sitting here staring at $10k worth of parts for my bike and that's the easiest, cheapest part. It's all of the little bits that hook the parts together and the time to find/produce them that adds up. No matter which way you slice it, it ain't cheap or easy.


I agree about the intellectual property thing. I hate lawyers too. But in this world, if you spend a bunch of time making something really cool and don't have a killer legal team to frighten others from immediately outright stealing it, you're going to get screwed.
 
mdd please don't take my comments to elliothaughin about pursuing an integrated eBike design as slam against your design. It was not in that context. You are doing the right thing, presenting your solution to elliothaughin to speed up his development process. It may or may not be the solution he is looking for. If it is, he wins and you win if you agree on compensation terms and conditions...

This is the way the market works. One company thinks hybrids are "it", another SUV's. They both invest time, money, sweat and tears... the market then decides who lives and who files chapter 11... the market is brutal. No shouda, wouda, couda...
 
I don't know if I have anything to say that's worth much, but I can tell you my background as a consumer of e-bikes.


I am impulsive. When I have an idea I want it to be reality right away, and I don't want to wait. I am also a slow learner (but a thorough learner). Others pick up on things quickly, but for me I need a little info at a time so that it really soaks in.


When I first got the idea to want an electric bike, it was probably from a chance encounter on E-bay with a kit. I didn't know what to expect, believe, etc., and so I did a bit of research. I started at Bikeforums.net and started to assume that ebikes were a thought in the minds of many, but not a reality (nobody there seemed to be making any decent progress).

Somehow I stumbled upon Endless Sphere, and asked a lot of questions. The fact that so many people here took their valuable time to answer my questions (over and over....because I learn so slowly) is a testament to the quality of this gathering. I've never seen anything like it. Someone should buy this site and advertise on it.....wait....scratch that........just a joke.



Long story short: When I started I just wanted something that worked and was easy. But most of the pre-made stuff is such crap (you see it in Walmart, etc.).


Most people have no wish to take apart their bike and put it back together with an e-kit (women especially, as evidenced by the handful of women on Endless Sphere). Most people just want something that works.


In my experience, Trek Bikes has the "best" product out there right now. Why? Because it's there, it's in stock, it looks neat and professional, and it works. You can walk right into any Trek store, give the bike a try, buy it, and you have a working product with warranty and that's that. Instant gratification.


Are there better, more-affordable alternatives? Clearly (that's why I made my own...four builds now). But I think most people want to just go to a showroom, try the bike and say, "wow, that's really cool. I'll take one."


Americans are very much geared toward instant gratification. We don't want to wait. We see something and we want it that day, in stock, no waiting.


That's not necessarily a good trait for us, but that's what we are used to having. We also want it to be packaged properly. Neat, new, clean, ready. The rest of the world finds this annoying, but I seriously doubt the American consumer mentality is going to change anytime soon. It's just the way we are wired now.

24 hours, 7 days a week. That's the American business model now. Get the customer to buy it quickly before it becomes available somewhere else cheaper, quicker.

I'll tell you how bad it is: A few years ago I was in Mexico and walked past a new car dealership (Ford). I immediately noticed that the tires on some of the new cars had a light film on the tread. They had been driven. Well, in the USA, right after a car is driven 100 feet they clean the wheels to make it look brand new. We all know that every "new" car on the lot has a few miles on it from test drives, but when that test drive is over they erase any evidence that the car has been touched. That's how picky Americans have become. MY CAR. MY NEW CAR.


Next point: My town has two bike shops: locally-owned bike shop and Trek Superstore. Trek is newer, in a nice building (that is only Trek) and has a staff in matching Trek shirts. Their store doesn't have empty bike racks. Inventory is always full, and if they don't have the bike you want they'll have it for you that day or the next morning (Atlanta is a regional distribution hub, making it easy for all Trek stores to get bikes quickly). They provide free brake and gear adjustment for life, and treat the person looking for a 300 dollar bike the same as someone looking for a 7000 dollar bike. You're a valued customer.

The locally owned bike shop has its qualities (kind of....I guess), but it's what you would typically expect: a bunch of guys who know a good bit about bikes, but are goofy (perhaps on something), and really don't understand why everyone doesn't know as much about bikes as they do. Their stock is usually limited, so they are taking in used bikes on consignment (not really a bad thing, but definitely changes their image). Their shop in the back is a mess, and one of the main guys there is an older gentleman who is a complete know-it-all. There's no such thing as a simple answer with that guy. If you ask, "I want to get a kit to put disc brakes on my bike; do you have anything in stock that would fit?"

There's no way you're going to get a quick answer. He's going to "educate" you on all manner of brakes, etc. until you end up frustrated or buying something you never intended to buy. Or maybe you'll learn a lot and be glad you did. But you won't get a simple answer.



What is my point?

Narrow down exactly what you intend to do with your business. If you are catering toward the kind of people on Endless Sphere, then I guess you'll have to look at a company like AmpedBikes, Ebikes.ca, ebikekit.com, and others for a good business model.

If you just want to sell E-bikes to people who don't care how it works, people who just want to try it, buy it, use it, and not think about it, then you'll have to just make a ton of ebikes, set up a show room, and sell them.
 
mdd0127 said:
Please post a link to an e-bike with an enclosed belt drive within the swing arm. Not that the idea is something I'd even mess with patenting. There are better ones to put those resources into.

Tons of scooters have belt drives in the swingwarm and a couple ebikes I've seen
Here is a design to copy if your into dorky designs
BMW-E-Scooter-01.jpg

This one is a little better but no suspension
Torque-drivetrain-exploded.jpg

I cant find the link but some college kid had one with suspension and a fragile/complex integrated controllable freewheel feature like the dogati for regen when you want it and coasting when you dont
 
This is a response to you, the previous post from liveforphysics and of course the OP.

I agree with the idea of working with asian manufacturers on this project. It would certainly make it more feasible and require less of an investment. I wish it was as easy to do in the States but this is real life and you'll need a lot more of an investment for this.

That being said DO NOT just start sending off your designs to asian manufacturers. There are very a few of Asian manufacturers that deal with ebikes that can do real OEM or ODM work. The rest are either not capable of it, no matter what they say, or will steal your idea and run with it. I can share some of these contacts with you and it is a good start. The good ones have the capabilities to bring anything you can design to life. They can actually manufacture any part you wish to your specifications.

It will not be cheap and they have high minimum requirements so be prepared to spend money :)

mdd0127 said:
That all sounds good if you're using cheap parts and building something ordinary.....and want to take the chance and hope that the asian manufacturers don't just start producing your bike themselves.

Also, ordering anything in quantity costs a fortune......good programs with fea capability cost a fortune........guys that are good at cad and machining and electronics development cost a fortune....machines/tooling costs a fortune. I'm sitting here staring at $10k worth of parts for my bike and that's the easiest, cheapest part. It's all of the little bits that hook the parts together and the time to find/produce them that adds up. No matter which way you slice it, it ain't cheap or easy.


I agree about the intellectual property thing. I hate lawyers too. But in this world, if you spend a bunch of time making something really cool and don't have a killer legal team to frighten others from immediately outright stealing it, you're going to get screwed.
 
flathill said:
mdd0127 said:
Please post a link to an e-bike with an enclosed belt drive within the swing arm. Not that the idea is something I'd even mess with patenting. There are better ones to put those resources into.

Tons of scooters have belt drives in the swingwarm and a couple ebikes I've seen

That is not tons. One is poorly designed vaporware that would snap apart at the first crack in the sidewalk and the other one is a monstrocity. If no one's done it well, it might as well be no one's done it. :wink:
 
I think you guys are forgetting about one of the most important factors being profitability.

Can you get a return on your business investment with all the competition that is out there?

In my opinion ultra motor did everything right with their a2b electric bike and it didn't sell like they hoped. The bike was well made and they did some very good marketing also. Even leonardo dicaprio bought an a2b.

The point being is that you're going to start a small electric bike business you have to look very hard at the financials. I would love to start electric bike business of my own but I just feel with these market conditions now is not the right time.
 
It's often very easy to confuse the quality of the product with the quality/ execution of the business plan.

If you start small and slow, and have higher than anticipated demand, then that is good.

If you start with a big budget and fast, and have a smaller than anticipated demand, you're BK.
 
Thanks for all your comments guys,

I really do appreciate the input. It looks like there are some great locals who could really help drive this project.

Can't wait to get started!
 
4489488916_c7d0c312d4.jpg


Can't say I saw the need for the argument, or why you both seemed to switch sides, but I'll just say the old Honda Hobbit moped had both sides of the swingarm with internal drive; one side had a chain, the other a belt. The belt side was driven by the motor, there was a transmission inside the rear wheel. Old Hobbits remain popular, but I wouldn't say there's no room for improvement, especially the appearance.

PHOTO_5658272_12265_12146014_ap_320X240.jpg
 
mdd0127 said:
The test mule was to make sure that there was an electric drivetrain out there that was worthy of designing a frame around. While it performs amazingly well, ALL of the suppliers failed the test miserably as far as customer service and quality control went. It took a lot of money to set up the shop, buy the equipment, buy all of the parts for the real prototype, and keep me alive while I worked 60 hours a week. I did everything as cheaply as possible and still ended up having to spend that amount to get where I'm at now......which is homeless and broke with a bunch of insane parts and some awesome ideas.

As far as zero liability batteries go, I guess I'll let that cat out of the bag. My idea is to sell a bike with a space for whatever batteries the customer chooses and have it use parallel blocks and jst connectors for balancing. That way, the customer buys their own batteries, separate from the bike company, just like they would for an RC car and the bike manufacturer doesn't have to go through all of the DOT and liability stuff. Also, the customer could easily upgrade as new technology is released and they would have the option of many suppliers to choose from. That idea is only the tip of the iceberg.
If any of your ideas are truly novel AND can likely be patented, then you just need to fully document your discoveries in writing & have these witnessed properly. Then you can share your novel ideas openly or secretly, as you wish, but be protected with patent law IF you follow-up on your ideas. You do not need money to do this part of the initial documentation before filing for any patents. You should have already completed & done this already if you are truly serious about the value of your ideas AND want monetary compensation too. :idea:

Why not do a non-disclosure agreement with potential investors too?

Design patents are not going to protect you very well unless your design is sooo truly unique. When you are concerned about just revealing a picture or video close-up of your product ideas & revealing what it is, then it is likely your ideas may not be novel or patentable but can be copied easily. It is easy to do patent searches and have a good idea if your idea is truly novel. Probably your ideas may just be proprietary but not patentable? :?:

I suggest sharing your ideas to advance ES open source & give it away, since you've not found a way to make money doing this. Why not help others that may be able to move forward what you know & help make progress for the EV revolution? :?: The only other out you have is to go to work for someone else in this business IF 'that' is even possible to do anytime in the near future... For whatever reasons, only you have/know, you have decided not to go that route, it seems, since you don't post about doing that option from what I've read on ES.

Maybe help the little guy DIY person on ES instead? :idea: 8)
 
Jason27 said:
I think you guys are forgetting about one of the most important factors being profitability.

Can you get a return on your business investment with all the competition that is out there?

In my opinion ultra motor did everything right with their a2b electric bike and it didn't sell like they hoped. The bike was well made and they did some very good marketing also. Even leonardo dicaprio bought an a2b.
Studying the failures is a very good idea... Tidal Force, E+ Electric Bikes, Cycle9 posted on ES (small scale local retail/internet)...

I personally thought A2B was a total loser from the first ride I took on one of their "better" models. I rode fast road bikes & a trail hybrid, so my opinion was/is coming from years of riding in the bicycle world POV.

Jason27 said:
The point being is that you're going to start a small electric bike business you have to look very hard at the financials. I would love to start electric bike business of my own but I just feel with these market conditions now is not the right time.
I would suggest building ebikes that would do well in your California beach and/or MTB/trail micro-cultures. Interweave with these trendy youth (and older) generation fashion/image subcultures to see if you can find buyers, since these sub-groups have set the trends in new lifestyles and cultural influence that have historically proven national impacts including lifestyle changes & new memes that are trendy enough to capture a lot of followers nationally too.

Santa Cruz & other area governments might lend a hand in some way too, since eBikes are such an environmentally positive impact blending high-tech too! :idea:

I think gas/fuel is going to cost $5-7 dollars/gallon over the next four years with a $1 jump soon after the November elections no matter who wins.
 
One startup company that seems to be doing okay is prodeco. However I have no idea what their financial standings are. Their bikes are reasonably priced but I'm wondering what kind of profit margins are? A guy sells prodeco ebikes on eBay bragging about how many he has sold.
 
I've seriously considered posting my ideas here so others can develop them but if they were easy to produce by diy'ers with hobby level equipment and funding, I'd already have produced them. Making all of the parts to implement my ideas will take many hours on state of the art machines and my main holdup is lack of access to the software and machines necessary to build a sleek, weight optimized, 2012 looking product. Imagine for instance, Jaguar going to an online forum and releasing all of the drawings and documents for their newest hybrid supercar. It's highly unlikely that anyone would be able to take the time and had all of the equipment, skills and money to actually produce the car. Even if a few did, it wouldn't make the vehicle accessible to the rest of the market. With relatively complex technology, unfortunately, economy of scale is going to be a deciding factor when it comes to production and marketing so me posting my designs up so people without the abilities to realize them can see them only does one thing for me, which is ruin any possibility of me seeing any compensation for my efforts.

Maybe the ideas are only proprietary and not necessarily patentable??? Only time and funding will tell. I do know that there's nothing available on the market that's anywhere close to the bike in my head and in my documents. It may look like I've given up hope on this project, but I prefer to think that I'm postponing further hope until the market is ready for what I have to offer. I've been working like crazy, trying to get my little rv together so I can travel around and experience other communities, hopefully meeting some interesting people along the way. I'm holding off on releasing everything open source until I've at least had the chance to present my ideas to a few more potential investors in geographical areas that are more accepting of new technology. If, after I've had a chance to travel a little bit and gauge the response to these ideas, nobody is interested in taking them to production, I will post the drawings up here and hope that somebody builds my dream bike so maybe I can at least buy one.
 
mdd0127 said:
Maybe the ideas are only proprietary and not necessarily patentable??? Only time and funding will tell. I do know that there's nothing available on the market that's anywhere close to the bike in my head and in my documents. It may look like I've given up hope on this project, but I prefer to think that I'm postponing further hope until the market is ready for what I have to offer. I've been working like crazy, trying to get my little rv together so I can travel around and experience other communities, hopefully meeting some interesting people along the way. I'm holding off on releasing everything open source until I've at least had the chance to present my ideas to a few more potential investors in geographical areas that are more accepting of new technology. If, after I've had a chance to travel a little bit and gauge the response to these ideas, nobody is interested in taking them to production, I will post the drawings up here and hope that somebody builds my dream bike so maybe I can at least buy one.
Sounds like a good plan, 8) but you need to document any novel ideas that may be patentable in a proper hardbound "lab notebook" with page numbers & have it dated and witnessed by two people, etc. Seriously, get a library book about preparation for doing a patent, otherwise you will soon lose that opportunity forever. Your ideas will be discovered soon by others if not already so. Ebike development is moving too fast now, imo. Your ideas will only hold value for the near term, *IMO*. By 2013-4 or much sooner it will be too late. Non-disclosure agreement could be helpful too.

It looks like the West Coast should be your target for "selling" your ideas/plans, etc. Good luck. 8)
 
Back
Top