Get a hub motor

[Stevil_Knevil]

CGameProgrammer,

The title of this thread IS "Disc Motor Vrs 20 lb Hub Motor"

Perhaps a more approprate title would be-

"In this corner, weighing in at 22 pounds, entering the ring with four internally threaded holes and a 7/8" keyed shaft, hailing from China, Briggs and Stratton Brushless PMAC Mooootoooorr!!

And in this corner, weighing in at 23 pounds, entering the ring with a 17/32" diameter axle, 36-hole spoke flanges and a threaded side cover, also hailing from China, Crystalyte X-5 Brushless Huuub Mooootoooorr!!"

Oooo, look.. the gloves are off!!

:wink:

-S

 

[knoxie]

:lol:

Like that one Steve!

Yes better get back to the discussion eh! ha ha hope your machines are still flying, I am about to drop an X5 in to an old but high quality full suspension MTB should be a lot of fun at 120V! he he will have crank arms but no chain or shifters or anything, pure and simple electric bike, this isnt by choice the bottom bracket threads have gone in the frame, more of a fun off roader, I have a spare bike and a spare wheel so why not! he he.

Cheers

Knoxie

 

[geoff57]

Hey Knoxie, if you're thinking about building an bike a la randy, may I suggest something?

You could get a Sturmey archer 3 speed of comparable gearing, including shifters, sproket & all63$. As well as a hall throttle 7$, a 24v 30A LB27 controller 12$, and a MY1018Z 45$. Add a chain at ~15$, a 24v lead charger 14.50$, and two 12ah bricks or so, 20$ each.

Without counting the sheetmetal, bolts, wires, zipties, the bike or time used to build it, the whole kit adds up to 196.5$. Consider that a dualdrive alone (without shifter or other drivetrain parts) would set one back 215$. You may need a bigger or smaller sprocket, but it's a shot in the dark to tell what speed the motor should be geared for given Unite's specs as published... Front mounting means you don't have to cripple the bike's normal gearing to do it, nor do you have to either warp your cadence around the motor's operating range or operate the motor in sub-optimal range, also freewheeling is allready built into this hub, all parts are off the shelf short of the mounting bracket that should be doable with crude hand tools, plus it makes for a 2wd bike.

Hi all
sorry for the full quote, saw this posted and saw how similar what you are saying to what is on my drawing board, here is a quick disription:-

motor : one of the motors used with USPD systems with the 4.8:1 gearbox,
chaindrive to the input sprocket(converted to .25 pitch) of a sturmey 8 speed (diskbrake compatable),take the output from a sprocket fitted to the diskbrake mounting chaindrive to a sprocket on a diskbrake mount of the rear wheel.
I am choosing sprockets to sute, and fitting it to a KMX recumbent with room under the seat for the stuff (a cowl will be put around the setup as Knoxie said too many finger removing moving parts.
this should give me the type of setup I want as with e-bikes I took the route of the USPD with a few mods,at time of investing my only hub options I knew of was hinsman big bucks or 250w fixed speed hub motor.
I dont knock all the more modern hubs its just that was the route I took and am happy with and now wish to introduce multiple gears to the system and so thats what is on the drawing board,but to have to peddle as fast as the motor wanted to go or/and have a huge motor like on the side of a bike(2 wheel) would be just not on,the USPD sticks out a bit but not that bad.

thats all for now
Geoff

 

[safe]

There are at least three options, probably more:

1. 20 lb Hub Motors
2. Large and Highly efficient standalone motors (Etek, PMG 132)
3. Small Motors with gears

All three have their plusses and minuses. For sheer power and flexibility (and in situations where the laws do not apply) the Large Motor would be the winner... after all... those things can reliably pump out up to 15 hp. For ease of use and installation the Hub Motors are best. The most complex, but also the lightest weight is the Small Motor combined with gears which can be up to 10 lbs lighter than the other options.

I'm a big fan of "tweeking" the small motor and turning it into a screamer that competes with the "Big Iron". In the end it's like comparing cars like the Mustang verses the Honda Civic. The Honda Civic has a tiny little engine that is setup up to rev really high and squeeze out the most peak power possible. The Mustang has huge horsepower, but it's heavy.

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[Lowell]

20x the torque? I want 2800Nm of torque! Show me this system Randy.

 

[fechter]

Guys, guys, chill out.

We all know how Randy operates. Just ignore his babbling. If or when he decides to contribute something useful to the forum, then pay attention.

Randy: please stop the trolling. It pisses everybody off and reduces your credibility.

The fact that we have not banned you from this group like all the other groups should give you some incentive to play nice.

Again: the purpose of this forum is to exchange information and to promote the use of electric vehicles.

Let's see the insides of your motor and controller. Show us acutal measurements, etc. Everyone will make up their own mind whether your system meets their needs or is better in some way.

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Randy,

So, if I am following your logic correctly, you are proposing that building something like the insane-a-cycle..

.. but substituting a brushless Etek and Sevon PMAC controller, is going to be a simple job using basic hand tools -and SO much more efficient than fitting a C-lyte or Puma hub motor to my bicycle.

Is that about right?

Randy,

Might I remind - you were championing the BLDC/PMAC motor back in the day that we were still arguing over Brushless Vs. Brushed Motors?

If you look around, you may have noticed that most of the discussions tend toward Brushless tech. In a way, you were right.. but it's a classic case of, "Good point! Wrong tone of voice."

I, for one, accept that you have good ideas. If you accept that others might know a thing or two about a thing or two too.. maybe we can all move forward?

For the reasons sited above, it would be a shame to have your input voided. Please, play nice.


- - - - - - - - - - - - -
Ride Bikes. Drive Culture. -S

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Before you answer my questions with more questions.. the basic format is:

-Question.

-Answer.

-Question(s), with request for clarification.

-Answer(s), with detailed clarification and/or picture(s).

Thank you for you cooperation.

 

[knoxie]

Hi

Having put the Lemco motor on a bike it quickly became clear that a big high power motor is overkill on a pushbike, they are very heavy and the no load power consumption and their load power consumption make them impractical, sure a lot of fun like Dave's bike above but Dave admits that he would not have made that bike had he tried an X5 motor at 72V first which may tell you something?

Eteks and big perms are good for big bikes and golf buggies, push bikes don't really need it or can cope safely with the power 15hp on cycle components is a bit much, Randy's bike is a good option if you have serious hills to climb and you want to do it with good efficiency, hub motors are ok if you want moderate hill climbing and good flat land speed, just like most things in life there are flavours and colours to suit everyone, which is why this NEWBIE is trying loads of different kits and parts from his own hub motor bike all the way through to the very latest batteries and controllers, I think I need to so I can make an objective observation how can I unless I try it and prove that first?

I'm done slinging mud with Randy, it doesn't help things move along at all? the crazy thing is his bike is a real winner its just a shame that he doesn't communicate well with others, it's not just me is it? sorry if you took it personally Randy and I apologise as it was a little near the knuckle, I could have pulled the message considering all the criticism I had, but left it as at the time I was pissed off.

I think we could all do with taking a step back at times and thinking a bit more before we post, I guess its just that we are all passionate about what we do and what he have achieved, I think I am doing ok for a newbie!

Happy e-biking

Knoxie

 

[Lowell]

Newbie :lol:

If Randy does bring something to the marketplace, I hope he hires someone to do PR. With some NuVinci style polish his system could be a contender.

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

 

[maytag]

A little more history-

A few of us, maytag included, were at a semi competitive hill-climb event where the first "production" RandyMotor was unveiled.

Ken Trough had plopped this motor into a Schwinn Stingray, and had it set-up and geared to Randy's specifications. He did the climb alone, zero pressure. Less than 5 minutes later, he came rolling back down the hill -motor smokin'.

The RandyMotor was stinking out loud!

Granted, it had Kens' fat ass on it, and the crank arms were both fixed forward -just like what most choppers have on them :wink:

After the event, we went into town for lunch. I remember telling Ken that he should call his new bike, "StinkRay".

Good times.



-S

Good times indeed.... we gotta get something going this year, something involving ebikes would be awesome since they seem to be the latest rave. If someone sets something up locally(Bay Area CA), you know Ric and I are in. 8)

 

[Stevil_Knevil]

Are y'all free this weekend? http://makerfaire.com/

It would be really cool if you could join Todd and the E1, Justin (the device formally know as DrainBrain) and his self-balancing skateboard, Fechter and and his tricked-out Vego SX 600, plus me and my latest 40MPH monster, "SolMover (tm)" at Maker Faire!

Dave, contact me off-list and I will try to get you, big bro and Jondoe (and your machines) into the Saturday event.

Mr. Electric (Nick) and d, if you are catching this.. consider yourself invited to join us as well.

PMSVP



-S

 

[EbikeMaui]

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

A little more history-

A few of us, maytag included, were at a semi competitive hill-climb event where the first "production" RandyMotor was unveiled.

Ken Trough had plopped this motor into a Schwinn Stingray, and had it set-up and geared to Randy's specifications. He did the climb alone, zero pressure. Less than 5 minutes later, he came rolling back down the hill -motor smokin'.

The RandyMotor was stinking out loud!

Granted, it had Kens' fat ass on it, and the crank arms were both fixed forward -just like what most choppers have on them :wink:

After the event, we went into town for lunch. I remember telling Ken that he should call his new bike, "StinkRay".

Good times.



-S

Good times indeed.... we gotta get something going this year, something involving ebikes would be awesome since they seem to be the latest rave. If someone sets something up locally(Bay Area CA), you know Ric and I are in. 8)

Im actually glad my ex partners used old magnets and did not glue them on properly. I'm also glad that Ken did not use the recomended 25 amp fuse for his fat ass without gearing the project accordingly for his fat ass hill climb.He told me that he wanted to go 30 mph on the flats with no hills.Ol fat ass took it on his own to be a show off before he tested the gearing for his fat ass..
glad I got out of that business... :Who has the video of his funky fender dragging as well ? :lol:

It's good to know that you freely admit that your motor has such a narrow performance envelope.

 

[EbikeMaui]

[

 

[Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh]

Good times indeed.... we gotta get something going this year, something involving ebikes would be awesome since they seem to be the latest rave. If someone sets something up locally(Bay Area CA), you know Ric and I are in. 8)

Im actually glad my ex partners used old magnets and did not glue them on properly. I'm also glad that Ken did not use the recomended 25 amp fuse for his fat ass without gearing the project accordingly for his fat ass hill climb.He told me that he wanted to go 30 mph on the flats with no hills.Ol fat ass took it on his own to be a show off before he tested the gearing for his fat ass..
glad I got out of that business... :Who has the video of his funky fender dragging as well ? :lol:

It's good to know that you freely admit that your motor has such a narrow performance envelope.

It was the first production motor that went out with out my inpection. I demanded that I inspect and test Kens motor but that did not happen because Ken started to deal directly with ex partners and the partnership imeaditly failed before Ken got his motor.
Miles has a different version that was sold after I was no longer involved with PlanatRyder as well. So I gess I did never have a product.Just a dozen prototypes that all work well.

It's good that you freely admit that you never had a production motor. I HOPE this means you'll stop sniping from the reeds about how terrible everyone else's production motor is compared to your prototype.

Prototypes are a dime a dozen & if you want to compare prototypes I'm sure real world motor manufacturer's could trot out a few dozen prototypes that could blow away anything you care to imagine. Since prototypes while intriguing are completely unattainable, they are essentially ebike porn. Like some playboy centerfold, a pretty face & a hot rotor that's fun to drool over but it's the accessible girl next door that'll give me a ride.

 

[EbikeMaui]