Giant Lite?

[deronmoped]

Anyone out there ever owned or rode one of these Giant Lite E-bikes?

I just picked one up and I'm trying to find out how fast they are. I read some reviews and could not find any definitive testing. It looks like they might have assist all the way up to 20 MPH or could be as low as assist up to 12 MPH.

The bike I got is missing the battery, case and plug in base for the battery just above the motor. I did hook up a 24 volts in Gel cells I had laying around and found out the bike works.

I also would like to know if anyone has tried modding this Panasonic drive. Either by increasing the voltage to the stock bike or removing the electronics and installing a new controller and then increasing the voltage.

I'm thinking I will ditch the Shimano 4 speed hub and put a 7 speed cassette on it. It sounds like the 4 speed hub could be wasting a little power. Also with the extra gearing I'm hopping to climb steeper hills better and go a little faster.

Thanks, Deron.

 

[neptronix]

http://www.nycewheels.com/giant-lite-electric-assisted-bike.html

Pedal the Lite like a regular bike, or flip the power switch and you'll have up to 390 Watts and up to 17 mph at your disposal.

Don't hurt yourself now, hehe.

Usually these commercial units are not designed with any headroom for heat in mind and use the tiniest motor possible, often to a fault, to prevent modification.

So that being said, you may be able to get maybe another 100 watts out of it if you're lucky. If you have flat terrain mainly, you might be able to hit 20mph by changing the rear gear ratio.

If you want any kind of power, you are of course better off selling this bike and building your own.

 

[deronmoped]

http://www.nycewheels.com/giant-lite-electric-assisted-bike.html

Pedal the Lite like a regular bike, or flip the power switch and you'll have up to 390 Watts and up to 17 mph at your disposal.

Don't hurt yourself now, hehe.

Usually these commercial units are not designed with any headroom for heat in mind and use the tiniest motor possible, often to a fault, to prevent modification.

So that being said, you may be able to get maybe another 100 watts out of it if you're lucky. If you have flat terrain mainly, you might be able to hit 20mph by changing the rear gear ratio.

If you want any kind of power, you are of course better off selling this bike and building your own.

Hey, thanks for the reply.

That's not my experience with my other Giant bike. They built it to take a lot of abuse. The Giant LaFree I modified has no problem taking the extra voltage. I went from 24 volts to 36 and the motor never even thinks about getting warm. This bike hits 25 MPH. I have another Giant Lafree bike that I plan on putting 48 volts through and it should handle it with no problems.

The Panasonic unit that drives this Giant Lite bike looks to be a very sophisticated and well built.

You can almost get any type of power out of any motor, it just depends on how long you want them to last. You could probably get several thousand watts out of a hundred watt motor, but it may only last you a few seconds. I have heard that you can push something like 8,000 amps through a 14 gauge wire, but it will only last a second. The point is, it all depends on what you want out of the motor. Just enough to make it down a drag strip, or something that is going to be going 24/7. I have six E-bikes, so none of them see a whole lot of use.

Going 25 does not take all that many watts, anywhere from 250 to 400 depending on how your bike is set up. Now if you also pedal, which I always do, the wattage requirement drops accordingly. You could easily add 100 to 200 watts to the total, dropping what the motor needs to put out to as low as 50 and 300 at the high end.

Take a look at this Panasonic torn down, it's built quite nicely.
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/flecc/motorunit1.html

Deron.

 

[neptronix]

Your giant lafree bike has a hub motor, am i correct?
Hub motors and mid-drives designed for bare minimum european/japanese spec are 2 different things.
It's on you. I wouldn't try to hop that bike up at all. I'd say go straight to a custom build with a motor that can handle a couple thousand extra watts, not a couple hundred . More voltage will make for a higher RPM at the output of that mid-drive motor. So unless you want to pedal 50% faster, that's a problem. Otherwise if you remain pedaling at the same speed, you drop that motor out of it's efficiency band and it's going to generate more heat than normal.

What you want to add is amps. How many more it can take is questionable.

According to my watt meter, going 25mph takes much more watts than you think. Are you using a watt meter, cycle analyst, or other device to actually get some real numbers? because wattage to cruise rises rapidly the faster you go.

 

[neptronix]

Another thing to consider is that you've got your controller inside your motor casing. It will run at higher amps at a cruise and generate more heat as well.

This is a bad platform to start with.

Try a real hub motor like this:

[youtube]UD_K_TRGcs4[/youtube]

[youtube]QVpbQpF1YzE[/youtube]

You'll never touch those 6 ebikes again.

 

[deardancer3]

I have two giant lite sports, batteries, chargers, and an extra motor. my main one is a size extra large with a 7 speed nexus internal hub swapped in.

It is the most reliable ebike i have ever owned. and quite sporty, a lot like riding a regular bike.

HOWEVER, it is relegated to back up service as it is a bit underpowered and there are a few hills in town that are too challenging for it and my 210lb body.

I could part with one bike, motor, etc.

dick in colorado

 

[StudEbiker]

Damn Nep, I have GOT to get one of those MAC motors!

 

[deronmoped]

Your giant lafree bike has a hub motor, am i correct?
Hub motors and mid-drives designed for bare minimum european/japanese spec are 2 different things.
It's on you. I wouldn't try to hop that bike up at all. I'd say go straight to a custom build with a motor that can handle a couple thousand extra watts, not a couple hundred . More voltage will make for a higher RPM at the output of that mid-drive motor. So unless you want to pedal 50% faster, that's a problem. Otherwise if you remain pedaling at the same speed, you drop that motor out of it's efficiency band and it's going to generate more heat than normal.

What you want to add is amps. How many more it can take is questionable.

According to my watt meter, going 25mph takes much more watts than you think. Are you using a watt meter, cycle analyst, or other device to actually get some real numbers? because wattage to cruise rises rapidly the faster you go.

No, the Giant LaFree and the Lite drive through the gears.

With driving through the gears, I can keep the motor running at its best efficiency. I gear down for the hills and the LaFree that I bumped up from 24 to 36 volts can climb anything without putting too much load on the motor.

As for watts required I was just going on one of those bike calculators. I'm guessing that they are pretty accurate if your bike is set up the way it is for the calculations.

http://bikecalculator.com/wattsUS.html

Thanks, Deron.

 

[motorino magnet]

.

 

[deronmoped]

Another thing to consider is that you've got your controller inside your motor casing. It will run at higher amps at a cruise and generate more heat as well.

This is a bad platform to start with.

Try a real hub motor like this:

[youtube]UD_K_TRGcs4[/youtube]

[youtube]QVpbQpF1YzE[/youtube]

You'll never touch those 6 ebikes again.

Now your living in a different world.

That is no bicycle, it's a motorcycle. Your asking for a whole lot of trouble with a bicycle that goes that fast. First, it won't be too long before you get busted and end up dealing with all the trouble that comes with not having that ride licensed as a motorcycle. Not sure how much trouble that will be, but someone here has probably all ready been there and could give us a inside look.

I figure you can get away with a bike that goes thirty or less and your pedaling at the same time. Not up a steep hill mind you. You do not want to draw that much attention to yourself.

The other problem is, the streets are not all that forgiving the way the maintenance is. One large pot hole and your done. In the very least your going to dent the hell out of the wheel, maybe a pinch flat, worst case is you crash at 45 MPH.

And, if we continue to get more and more crazy fast unlicensed bicycles out there, they are going to end up coming down on all of us, like they do in Europe with their road side speed checks.

Another thing is, is the psychological aspect. You think your on a bicycle, yet you have the speed of a motorcycle. What happens is you do things your used to doing on a bike, yet at a much faster speed. You basically need to retrain yourself, if, somehow you can separate the bicycle aspect and the speed aspect. You can treat it like a bicycle at slower speeds, yet when you start to go over a certain speed, you need to think of yourself as being on a motorcycle and dealing with traffic as a motorcycle does...

Deron.

 

[neptronix]

:lol:
Nobody here has been in that kind of trouble, not in the United States ( where i am ), nor have i heard of anyone getting busted afar. I've had local cops laugh at me and ask me if i'm lance armstrong. That's about as bad as it gets

I typically go 20-30 and pedal the entire time. If i am on a back road where there is no bike lane, or i need to take the road, i let it rip up to 35-40mph.

That 20S test you saw is not what i normally run my bike at. It was more like - hey, how much power can i dump into this motor before it explodes? It didn't explode... that motor is still in tact

I never ride that fast and i agree with you about the danger. I either ride in the bike lane or the road itself depending on the conditions, preferring the road of course.
I am always considerate of folks walking around on the sidewalk, other bicyclists etc. I don't think i'm doing anyone any harm. If i'm on a sidewalk or a parking lot, i'll do 5-15mph.

I think high speeds on a bike can be safe. You just need proper suspension and brakes really. Remember that there are entire classes of bikes dedicated to going downhill at fast speeds, hitting rocks and other nasty stuff the entire way down. With the proper equipment, these bikes are no less safe than a motorcycle. They just provide more freedom, a lower cost, and the ability to throw it in a car or hike it up the stairs at the end of the day.

Call my bike what you like but i pedal all the time with a super large gear ratio. I just happen to have a bit more power than you

 

[neptronix]

My bad, i searched for images of the lafree and lite on google and found a few pictures of ones that had hub motors. Maybe they changed things around.

That bike calculator is going to be all sorts of wrong as it doesn't account for electric motor inefficiency, which is highly variable based on RPM, copper losses, heat, load, etc. Every time someone uses a pedal bike based calculator, they get some verrry wrong figures.

For example, doing 45mph as i have done on my DD hub and MAC motor, it calculates 2000w. What's actually coming out of the battery into the controller at that point is well over 4000w. Even a 100% efficient hub motor would be using well over 3000w.

Get a turnigy watt meter and see for yourself.
While you're at hobbyking, get one of the temp sensors to see how bad you're abusing your motor. Collect some data.

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=12582
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewitem.asp?idproduct=10080

 

[deronmoped]

I have two giant lite sports, batteries, chargers, and an extra motor. my main one is a size extra large with a 7 speed nexus internal hub swapped in.

It is the most reliable ebike i have ever owned. and quite sporty, a lot like riding a regular bike.

HOWEVER, it is relegated to back up service as it is a bit underpowered and there are a few hills in town that are too challenging for it and my 210lb body.

I could part with one bike, motor, etc.

dick in colorado

Dick

Yeah, I think they built these bikes for skinny little kids. Well at lest the laws that limit them probably take a much lower average body weight into account. So the skinny little kids haul ass and the bigger you are the slower you go.

I'm going to go with a 7 speed cassette. Those supposeably can be up to 16% more efficient then some of the internal geared hubs. I'm 40 Lbs lighter, so that helps. I'm also going to try to up the voltage, one person reported that you can go as high as 31 volts and the electronics still function correctly. I do not know if that equates to more speed and power.

You can go fast if you design your bike right.

1) Low rolling resistance tires.
2) Down on the drops or aero bars.
3) Correct gearing.
4) In shape and can add some additional watts.

I have never had problems with any of the steepest hills in my town (24% is the steepest one I usually climb) and that is even on just a plain old bike, so I fly up hills with the added power.

Deron.

 

[deronmoped]

:lol:
Nobody here has been in that kind of trouble, not in the United States ( where i am ), nor have i heard of anyone getting busted afar. I've had local cops laugh at me and ask me if i'm lance armstrong. That's about as bad as it gets

I typically go 20-30 and pedal the entire time. If i am on a back road where there is no bike lane, or i need to take the road, i let it rip up to 35-40mph.

That 20S test you saw is not what i normally run my bike at. It was more like - hey, how much power can i dump into this motor before it explodes? It didn't explode... that motor is still in tact

I never ride that fast and i agree with you about the danger. I either ride in the bike lane or the road itself depending on the conditions, preferring the road of course.
I am always considerate of folks walking around on the sidewalk, other bicyclists etc. I don't think i'm doing anyone any harm. If i'm on a sidewalk or a parking lot, i'll do 5-15mph.

I think high speeds on a bike can be safe. You just need proper suspension and brakes really. Remember that there are entire classes of bikes dedicated to going downhill at fast speeds, hitting rocks and other nasty stuff the entire way down. With the proper equipment, these bikes are no less safe than a motorcycle. They just provide more freedom, a lower cost, and the ability to throw it in a car or hike it up the stairs at the end of the day.

Call my bike what you like but i pedal all the time with a super large gear ratio. I just happen to have a bit more power than you

I had some cops try to chase me down one time when I went blowing by them. I figure I was getting pretty close to doing 30 MPH. Don't know what they would of done, I did not hang around to find out. But they were out looking for me, as I saw them from the side path I headed off into.

I think we have been pretty lucky so far, not too many of us E-bikers out there, let alone ones that can break the E-bike laws. As long as we are just a blip on the radar, the cops will probably not waste their time with us.

Yeah, I try to keep it sane too, don't want to run anyone down or get hurt. Although I have caught myself going to fast for the conditions and had to remind myself to be careful, I'm no longer on a slow human powered bike.

I ride mopeds and they are built to take much more abuse. I hit some pot holes that made me think I was going to lose a rim and that is with looking for them constantly, sometimes you just get caught off guard.

I also think a bike can be safe at high speeds, if it's set up to handle those speeds. But you have to remember the laws of physics, going just a little bit faster takes way longer to stop, the parts have to be way stronger, your reactions have to be faster... Plus, your going to have to get out of the bike lane, mix it up with traffic, act like a regular vehicle, stop at the signs... It's a whole new paradigm your creating for yourself, your on a hybrid that is at one point a human powered slow bicycle, a human powered assisted E-bike and then getting into to the realm of being a motorcycle.

Have fun and stay sane. Deron.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Lets understand though that the mac will most likely fail beyond 2kw, the weakest link is the clutch and keyway which I killed at 3.5kw after about 6 months, and I pedal a hell of a lot and only opened it up for fun the last mile or 2 home. The power of it though is amazing and addictive, it absolutely eats hills. But for now I'm back to the magic pie, dumping 3.5 kw into that is a lot of fun too but it doesn't have the same torque range or speed of the mac, nor the same hill climbing speed, but it will last forever!

a 48-52 volt LiFeP04 will still get a very decent 28-31 mph, on the 320 rpm mac!

The mac is a brilliant motor but you got to know it's limitations, I hope we will see a bigger much more powerful version which wouldn't need a clutch because there would be no need for free wheel. Keeping it cool is another matter.
A magic pie sized mac, oh yeah!

As for speed limits applied to bikes, I see a lot of speeding here on narrow town and village streets, that 30 mph is already way too fast for out narrow streets!!! the most important speed limits of all, but the waste of space cops are sitting on the motorways on the best roads. But then again if they keep to the motorways there will be less cops to catch me!