Giant Yukon build

[briangv99]

Hi,

here is my build. The key bits and pieces I'm currently using are -

Giant Yukon FX
Kollmorgen 400w 24v with planetary gearbox with 19t output
Vision Independent Pedalling Sytem modified to take White Industries Eno
90t #25 sprocket
Shimano Alfine
Esge twin leg stand
Various bits of alumium cut and hammered into shape and u-bolts welded to a bracket for the motor/stand mount

Performance with the current setup at 24v setup has been quite good, though pushing the motor continously at 1000w for extended periods seems to have taken its toll on the controller. I'm in the process of building an r/c drive system running at 36 or 48 volts, hoping it will give the bike some much needed grunt, though it will climb the steppest hills offroad with some assist as it is.

 

[K-ray]

Hey Brian,

Nice build I'm doing something similar w/a kollmorgen,
I'm curious about how your gearbox. What is it's original
application? and ratio?

Thanks, and good luck with the advancements.
Kevin

 

[recumpence]

Brian,

Welcome!

Glad to see others jumping into the non-hub/frame mounted motor drive. You will be very happy with the RC equipment once you work out the bugs and get everything setup perfect. :wink:

Matt

 

[oofnik]

Awesome, Brian.

How does that Turnigy motor look and feel? I've been considering it for a while.
Is there a bearing supporting the rotor bell or is it suspended?

 

[briangv99]

Thanks all for the positive comments.

Kevin, the gearbox is from evdeals.com, the ratio is about 4.8 to 1 and I know that they did come standard equipment in the Currie/US Pro Drive kits, but whether it was originally designed for e-bikes I'm not sure.

The Turnigy motor seems to be really well built. It turns over smoothly by hand. Haven't run it up yet, so time will tell whether it's up to the task, but for a motor costing all of US$83, I figured it was worth a shot. There's no bearing support for the bell, so we'll just have to see if it ends up self destructing or rubbing the magnets after some hard offroad use. If it doesn't survive I guess I'll be going with a Hacker A60L or Hyperion z5045, both which have a concentric bell support bearing.

Thanks Matt, your recumbent bike has been a big inspiration for the change over to r/c gear. I've been thinking about using r/c equipment for years (I've played around with r/c electric planes and helis since the mid 90s), but until I saw your recumbent build I was stuck for ideas on a suitable reduction box. I've only got a basic lathe and tools but think I've come up with a decent reduction box structure. Hope to have something to show soon. Meanwhile, I can't wait to see your new reduction unit in action on a MTB.

cheers,

Brian

 

[recumpence]

Cool.

I am interested to see what you come up with.

Matt

 

[JoeG]

Brian,
I would like to know a little about the performance of the 24v system. I am thinking of doing a similar set-up on a specialized FSR . What was your top speed & do you feel that having the rear derailleur helped efficiency or acceleration ? I was thinking of using a BMC 750w motor @48 volts that has an external controller on my project. Is there any reason that you didn't consider that option?
Thanks for your input and posting your project.
Joe

 

[briangv99]

Hi Joe,

I went with the 24v Kollmorgen for a few reasons, first of all I was able to get one for a good price from Bob McRee, secondly 24v was about the limit of of where I could get enough reduction to get a cadence of 100rpm or so, thirdy it is nice and narrow between the pedals. Performance is good, top speed about 43kph (27mph). I agree, the BMC 750w would definitely be the better motor, as pushing the Kollmorgen continuosly at 1000w would heat the motor to 70C degrees and it killed the internal controller after several hundred km. With that much heat efficiency was OK but not great. At 48v you would need an extra 2:1 stage of gear reduction to hope to pedal with the motor or opt for a different drive configuration.

The bike doesn't have a derailleur, it's a chain tensioners designed to work with the Shimano Alfine. The chain tensioner is necessary as chain tension varies throughut the suspension travel and also because the bike doesn't have vertical dropouts. I'm sure efficiency would be fractionally better without it.

Brian

 

[natem]

I'm sure efficiency would be fractionally better without it.

At that point it doesn't really matter. A bicycle, or motorcycle, is about the most un-aerodynamic vehicles you could possibly imagine using. The energy losses of a chain tensioner amounts to you spitting in a monsoon of inefficiency.

It's a very cool bike, btw.

 

[voicecoils]

The bike doesn't have a derailleur, it's a chain tensioners designed to work with the Shimano Alfine. The chain tensioner is necessary as chain tension varies throughut the suspension travel and also because the bike doesn't have vertical dropouts. I'm sure efficiency would be fractionally better without it.

Nice build!

I have a Alfine hub too on my red commuter. You're running power through it (with the cranks at the mid-point of the drive system) right? Can you comment on how the Alfine handles the load? Does it shift under power properly? If you've got many miles/km's through it, how's it holding up?

My bike has a front hubmotor so it's isolated. However my Alfine hub does not shift perfectly, sometimes lagging in changing to the next gear and sometimes I need to unload the pedal slightly to get it to click over. I'll have to open it up at somepoint and try regreasing it.

 

[MitchJi]

Hi VC,

I have a Alfine hub too on my red commuter. You're running power through it (with the cranks at the mid-point of the drive system) right? Can you comment on how the Alfine handles the load? Does it shift under power properly? If you've got many miles/km's through it, how's it holding up?

My bike has a front hubmotor so it's isolated. However my Alfine hub does not shift perfectly, sometimes lagging in changing to the next gear and sometimes I need to unload the pedal slightly to get it to click over. I'll have to open it up at somepoint and try regreasing it.

You might want to give this a try:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=7468&p=113434&hilit=+nexus#p113434

The Shimano Alfine is better than most (bang for buck). The benefits outweigh the weight disadvantages in my view. Stronger wheel, protected from the elements, reliable shifting and wide ratio gearing are a few. The downside is more unsprung weight but in my experience handling isn't affected much on the road. I used a Rohloff rear wheel in MTB Downhill competition and there was a difference in handling for sure. I have a non-suspension cargo bike we developed for postal delivery with a the Shimano Nexus hub and the handling difference is undetectable, and we tried very hard to detect it. They're extremely reliable and after about 6 months the trick is to open it up, pull out the mechanism and wash all the grease out then dunk it in light gear oil, sit to allow the excess to oil run off and then re-install. It's a 10 minute job and you won't believe the performance after that. Repeat every 6 months.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

how do you get 1000w out the stock controller?
an what are you using in batteries? i have a similar setup, 24V koll, will be using 6s 8ah lipo, 1/10 primary gearing what can we hope in case of performance? 8)

 

[briangv99]

Nice build!

Thanks, I was happy with the way it turned out, should have taken more pics when I was building it.

You're running power through it (with the cranks at the mid-point of the drive system) right? Can you comment on how the Alfine handles the load? Does it shift under power properly? If you've got many miles/km's through it, how's it holding up?

Hi VC, Yep power runs into the cranks. The Alfine handles the load very well, though having a small problems with it slipping out of 8th (need to hold tension on the shifter, and haven't quite figured out how to adjust the problem out). My bro's bike is identical and so far no problems and smooth shifts, just need to back off the throttle on the 4th to 5th change. My bike has been out of action for a couple months trying to track down a replacement motor, so up to this point it only has about 1000km on it.

The energy losses of a chain tensioner amounts to you spitting in a monsoon of inefficiency

yeah, my thoughts exactly, was more concern with hill climbing ability and keeping it simple and neat than chasing the best efficiency figure.

how do you get 1000w out the stock controller?
an what are you using in batteries? i have a similar setup, 24V koll, will be using 6s 8ah lipo, 1/10 primary gearing what can we hope in case of performance?

BZH - the bike hits peaks of about 50 amps (or 1100w for a few seconds), then the current limiter kicks in and winds back to 35 amps (about 850w) so yeah probably not 1000w all the time. I'm using a cyclone 24v 20ah pack (8s2p 10ah cells) on the rack at the moment (bad for handling, but easy to fit), building a mid mount pack of A123 batteries at the moment. Performance with 6s LiPo should be strong, the koll can handle up to 7s using lipos.

 

[bzhwindtalker]

thanks a lot, I hope for you a great succes with this big RC drive