Hahaha — newly wired controller runs the motor backward!

[ryan]

What's the likely problem? I think I wired color to color, but obviously not. Throttle wrong? Hall wrong? Phase wrong?

It's a Lyen controller with a x5304 motor.

 

[liveforphysics]

Swap any pair of motor phase wires, then trade around hall wires until you find another combo that runs, and it should run forward.

 

[Lessss]

Not that many possibilities
Motor - - Controller

Green - Green
Yellow - Yellow
Blue - Blue

Green - Yellow
Yellow - Green
Blue - Blue

Green - Green
Yellow - Yellow
Blue - Blue

Green - Blue
Yellow - Yellow
Blue - Green

Green - Green
Yellow - Blue
Blue - Yellow

Same combinations on the hall wires excluding Black and Red for power which you DO NOT reverse

 

[ryan]

I started with the hall wires... sure enough found the right combo.

But it clogs something awful.

View attachment IMG_1889.MOV

What in the world?

 

[Ypedal]

stop stop stop.....

some combinations will run, but pull big amps and roughly ( as in your video ) .. do not insist with the throttle, if it does not start from a dead stop and run smoothly, you do not have the right combination..

 

[Lessss]

some combinations will work but deliver no REAL torque or be noisy - wrong combo.
Patiently work your way through the combos.
Pick ONE specific hall combo, move through all the phase combos with that, then move onto next hall combo and repeat. This is why people like getting controller and motor together with already worked out connections.

 

[John in CR]

Listen to YPedal, rough running means a wrong combo and can easily burn something up with high current. If you had a good smooth reverse, the correct combo requires a change of 2 phase wires and 2 hall wires. You were sensing a 3-2-1 order with the halls and firing a 3-2-1 order with the phases, so both require a change to a 1-2-3 order. It sounds like the halls are easier to swap for you, so as Liveforphysics said, swap any 2 and only 2 phase wires, and then find the right hall combo to go with it. The reason it can be any 2 is because it really doesn't matter if the order is 2-3-1, because that is still 2-3-1-2-3-1-2-3 as it rotates.

I believe X5's are directional due to the angled laminations on the stator. You do have the motor mounted with the wires coming out of the left side, don't you?

 

[Ypedal]

clytes are not unidirectional, i've run them in both directions, equally well.... yes the stator is angled, but this makes no difference imo..leading edge is on the left or right.. no diff.

 

[John in CR]

clytes are not unidirectional, i've run them in both directions, equally well.... yes the stator is angled, but this makes no difference imo..leading edge is on the left or right.. no diff.

Yes, I know you've said that before, BUT I can't wrap my brain around that it doesn't make a difference. The hall sensors on my 4 series are between stator teeth, putting them at the leading edge of the stator groove for forward rotation and the trailing edge for reverse. The overlapped windings complicates the matter, but the sensors are definitely not centered to the overall winding, so the timing must be different, in the same way the Burtie's timing jig changes the timing. In forward, the hall fires as the next magnet begins to pass a winding. Unless the magnets are exactly the width of the winding including the splay (different from my other brushless motors), in reverse the hall won't fire as the next magnet starts to pass the leading edge of the winding.

Also, my motor came with an arrow between the spoke flanges indicating which way is forward. Yes, that could be only for the wiring harness to connect properly, but I'm not so sure. I seem to remember Justin saying something once about the Clytes not running as well in reverse. This motor is pretty old, so maybe Clyte changed the splay angle since then and now they build them to work equally well either direction, but I'm pretty confident that on mine the timing will be advanced or retarded in reverse. Once I have an application for a 408/4011 dual tapped motor I'll put it back together and find out definitively, at least for the one I have.

 

[BLUESTREAK]

YPEDAL is right. I have a x5306 that came wired with the arrow rotation pointing foward and it was actually running in slow speed reverse and it was easier to just turn the wheel around and run forward at full speed and it has worked just fine, (front wheel).

 

[John in CR]

Working fine doesn't convince me that it works identically. With the skewed windings that are a parallelogram 3 stator slots wide, a slightly retarded timing of a few degrees with the wheel running in reverse may not be very noticeable. Also, give the choice of remounting a wheel or swapping 2 phase wires and 2 hall wires, I'd take that wiring change every time even if I thought I had to go through all 5 of the other hall combos.

 

[ryan]

All set. Lyen filled me in with the secret code:

Lyen Controller to Crystalyte motor wire color lining:

Controller: Motor:
HALL:
Yellow Yellow
Green Blue
Blue Green

PHASE:
Yellow Blue
Green Green
Blue Yellow



Full Speed Ahead!