Hard Tail or Full Suspension?

[Argus]

Hello,

I'd like to start a new build, but I can't decide on the bike frame. My current ebike is a hard tail with a front suspension mountain bike and has served me well for commuting to work, while getting a bit of exercise . However my hub motor (Crystalyte) is starting to go, so I have an excuse to start on a new build

For this build, I've been considering getting a good quality full suspension DH bike like a Kona Stinky for commuting to work, and also use it on some easy mtb trails. But I'm concerned that a full suspension bike, maybe too soft and not practical for a daily commuter and i'll lose out in getting some exercise.

The other direction is to go back to what I know(which is road bikes) and get a hybrid cycle-cross for urban commuting.

 

[The Mighty Volt]

Hi there...good question.

I believe Suspension goes beyond the obvious.

I have a Raleigh Chinhook, decent bike, nothing special, Nice front suspension forks, but not much else.

You can always compromise, as I have done: get a "thud-buster" saddle, or a spring loaded saddle, not an expensive investment.

Also, switch over to over-sized tires....like the Schwalbe's Fat Frank, or Maxis Hookworms. These oversized tires allow you tremendous cushioning. It's where suspension starts for me, at the tires.

So there may be no need to switch over to a full suspension, if you take advantage of the other options out there.

 

[johnrobholmes]

Suspension. Your lower back will thank you after a year of high speed rattles and jars.

 

[chrisvw]

I've always been a hardtail guy, but have bounced off most everything that could break off my frame as a result. I chose a hardtails so I'd have a solid rack for my batteries and controller. I agree with the mighty volt that fat tires don't can help a lot. I haven't tried the thudbuster yet. If you have a good mounting scheme for your batteries, I think suspension would be great. I wouldn't trust a seatpost rack for a second though, so I don't consider this an option for battery mounting.

 

[dogman dan]

FS is worth it, but it is a pain. Often you lose the ability to carry batteries in the frame, but the bonus is that it's twice as hard to make a rack work.

But once you get the bugs worked out of a nice FS bike motorized, it sure is Sweeeeet! No more bent rims and broken spokes is a bonus. A lot depends on the kind of road surface and how far you ride. For 5 miles you can put up with anything. For 60 miles on terrible pavement, FS rules.

Don't underestimate how much more complicated it can get to go FS though, especially if you want front hub on alloy shocks. But the solutions to all the problems are found in the build threads in pics section.

As for too soft, a good FS bike has lots of adjustability, especially air shocks. Just tweak em up to the heavier weight of the bike once you add motors and battery. The better bikes won't pedal bob like one that is cheap and too soft.

 

[Drunkskunk]

If you have the option of a Kona Stinky, Go For It!
But get the large frame, older style so you can fit batteries in the frame.

Fat tires do help a lot, but full suspension floats over things like rocks, speedbumps, and small children without any jarring or instability.

 

[deronmoped]

My last build was a FS bike.

I wanted something I could take off road on my rides. There are some off road bike trails where I go riding a lot and the FS helped quite a bit. What really smoothed things out was to reduce the pressure in my tires. Smooth as silk after I lowered the pressure. I would only recommend lowing the pressure if most of the riding is off road, otherwise it's too soft for the rest of the ride.

This last FS bike turned out to be so much fun, that I'm upping the ante. This time around I bought even better forks, be using a higher voltage and maybe a better back shock if I can find one to fit.

I felt I was in much better control with a FS bike, going faster then I should of down some off road trails

Deron.

 

[deronmoped]

I should of mentioned that I use a Giant LaFree bike to start with. These bikes have a motor that drives through the crank and the battery is in a good spot just above the crank. This I believe makes for a better off road bike. The weight is in the best place, down low and suspended. Driving through the gears allows you to multiply the torque of the motor for climbing those really steep hills.

Deron.

 

[dogman dan]

With really good suspension like I have on my Giant, I can run my tires hard as a rock and never notice the lack of cush or have excess pedal bob.

A good kona should be the same. Good adjustability is everything in suspension. It can take a while to get it fully tuned. Poor suspension tuning is responsible for lots of bad reviews on suspension bikes. Changing the front changes the back, so it can take a bit of fiddling to get it all in harmony. Once tuned, you won't belive how nice it can be. My specialized with air shocks is even more tunable, and rides like a dream.

 

[Argus]

I've been reading a few of the awesome FS builds on here, and getting excited about the flexibility of a Full suspension bike. Then I took a trip down to the local bike shop, and saw a Cannondale Quick hybrid, that I just had to take out for a spin. :lol: This bike was so light and equipped with front air shocks and hydraulic brakes. So again I'm torn between the direction i want to go with my next commuter/fun bike.

The Cannondale, i could do a simple build, small rear 350W hub motor and a 36V Lip04 installed on a rack and I'm done.

However, the FS is more versatile, with a lot more fun factor. The only thing holding me back from going with a FS is a spot to mount the battery, most of the FS bikes I looked at didn't have much room for installing a battery in the frame. While I was at the bike shop, I did find an Axiom rack for Full Suspension bikes. I'm wondering if the rack would be strong enough until I can figure out a way to mount my battery (about 12lbs) to the frame?

 

[D-Man]

My road bike with no suspension rides better then my ebike with front suspension/big tires and suspension seatpost/cruiser seat. The ebike does better on railroad tracks and off road bombing. The ebikes weight and stiff frame does not do well on minor road bumps that suspension won't take out. I'm sure the best suspension won't work on minor road bumps. Its the frame's job to soften the minor road bumps. Thats why I can ride for hours on a road bike.

 

[dogman dan]

I disagree, REALLY good suspension is a real eye opener once you have it. Tends to be in the $1,500-2,000 price range though. I got really lucky finding my specialized so cheap used. Poorly tuned suspension can be worse than no suspension. To some extent, hardtail with a suspension fork is poorly tuned. Too soft in front in relation to the hardtail rear. Perfectly tuned FS is much nicer, and makes me just cream over the seat the whole ride. You tune it very different for street riding than you set it up for trail riding.

But a lot depends on the kind of rider, the kind of motor, the kind of road. You really can't just generalize. But a few things can be said. Load up cheap suspension bikes too much with motors and batteries, and the frame starts flexing like mad. Like a dog wagging it's tail every pedal. So I've learned to make my battery loaded panniers cross country bike a good one. To just get across town with a light battery, just about any bike can be tolerated.

So far all my FS bikes have carried the battery on a rear rack. I usually put some reinforcing in the seatpost, and then some diagonal bracing between the bottom of the seat post and the middle of the rack. I left the bracing off this bike a bit too long. :lol:

this pic shows how I put the bracing on.

 

[Ariane]

My road bike with no suspension rides better then my ebike.

on paved road at about 20 Mph and less no problem.

The ebike weight and stiff frame does not do well on minor road bumps that suspension won't take out. I'm sure the best suspension won't work on minor road bumps. .

Based on my own experience, best suspension works great on minor road bumps, pot holes with the correct adjustment and settings if you get a cheap suspension is another story.

Thats why I can ride for hours on a road bike. .

With an average speed of 22 Mph, I have I a range of 60 miles with one battery pack, it's a 3 hours comfortable ride I can't expect the same with any road bike on the planet. In this ride I can go off road taking any bike path, gravel road and sand trail where a road bike is to shy to go and not very pleasant to use.

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[El_Steak]

I have a hard tail with front suspension, fat Hookworm tires and Thudbuster seat post. If I had to do it again, I would build around a good quality FS frame instead.

I ride pretty fast, most of the time around 35 MPH and the hard tail kicks pretty hard on bumps at those speeds. I personally don't mind it too much, but my bike does.

Yes its easier to fit a rear rack on a hard tail, but I've already broken my Topeak rack on my commute, carrying less than 20 pounds of battery on it (18s3p). Now that I've moved to a 24s3p setup, I find myself constantly pacing myself to avoid putting too much stress on the rear rack. It has already started bending

 

[EVnewbie]

I have two mountain bikes, a fully suspended aluminum Iron Horse Maverick and a Norco One25 aluminum hardtail. For my electric bike build, I'm going for the Norco to hold the rear hub motor, here is why.

The Norco One25 aluminum dirt jumper hardtail frame is much, much, MUCH stronger than the Iron Horse and runs a Bomber fork with 20mm axle on the front. Just a much beefier bike than the cross country Iron Horse. My plan is a C-lyte 5306 24 pound hub laced to a 19x2.75 4 ply dual purpose motorcycle tire on a Honda CRF150 front alloy rim. Figure that combo together with hub motor, rim, heavy tire, thick tube will run at least 35 pounds and when motived with a 72V 48 amp controller--the amount of torque on the frame pivot for the Iron Horse will be way too much. Two steel torque arms on the hub motor attached to the stout Norco hard tail frame will hold no matter how stupid I get. Calculate it will max out at 29 MPH but the torque will be very, very strong.

For suspension, the Cane Creek Thudbuster LT will give me 3" of travel. The battery pack will be mounted above the steeply sloped Norco frame on elastomer pucks to protect the pack. Inside the case, the pack will also have and inch of stiff foam on the bottom to perform the same function. Since the seat post is limiting the force on the frame, it should more easily pivot around the front fork as the "swing arm" to protect the batteries from excessive shock. My seat has springs for the Norco which give me an inch of soft travel so mix it with a stiffer sprung seat post should give me the ride quality I need.

If I was going to put a rear 5306 hub motor on a fully suspended bicycle frame, I would choose this bike.

http://www.pinkbike.com/news/black-market-killswitch-video-2010.html

Love the thick steel rear swing arm that uses the crank location for the large bearings as the pivot point. Maybe a few years after the Norco is done, I could pick up one of those frames?

 

[EVnewbie]

Ooops!

The Killswitch is aluminum but the dropouts are replaceable. Does not look to hard to make a steel dropout from a steel plate for extra durability. I'm sure Black Market would make the dropouts out of steel if you called them.

 

[D-Man]

Everyone has their own definition of a good ride. My back muscles let me know if I ride too much. Although they hurt long time ago before I started riding bikes.

 

[Ariane]

Everyone has their own definition of a good ride. My back muscles let me know if I ride too much. Although they hurt long time ago before I started riding bikes.

Yep my definition of a good ride is going faster, longer and every where i can thinking about with the most comfortable ebike I can use, without back pain problem or other injuries issues.

Good day!
Black Arrow

 

[Argus]

Dogman, how did you brace that seat post rack?

 

[D-Man]

I've ridden in cars that bounce just as bad over the bumps. Its all about the speed in proportion to the size of the bump to take it out. Take a parking lot speed bump. How fast do you have to drive over one and not feel it? The worst bumps are the crappy little pavement pot hole patches or strips of paved over trenches that the road crew just throws the asphalt on to with no machine to smooth it off. Then the asphalt seems to just deform in that spot when the cars run over it or it just stays mounded. Obviously they don't know what they are doing.

 

[dogman dan]

This pic might show better how I mount my racks. Two pieces of 1/2" electric conduit with the ends smashed flat. Drill a couple holes, Drill holes in the seatpost bottom, and again on the rack. bolt it up. Really stiffens up the rack, and helps prevent broken racks and seatposts. On the commuter/ crosscountry bike, I can easily load up the panniers and rack with 50 pounds.

Re motor mounting, Like I was saying, a generalization is wrong for somebody with the motor they have. Look hard for one of these if you can find it. It has steel rear dropouts.