Help Bulk Charging with Thunder 1220

[drew12345]

Hi All,

It's exciting week for me. I want to start bulk charging using my Thunder 1220 for 12s pack. I need your help verifying my setup is correct. I don't want to hook this up until I'm sure.

This is bulk charging 2 Turnigy 6s 5ah batteries hooked in series for 12s1p. In these 2 pics(one far and one closeup), I'm using parallel harnesses but nothing is paralleled. That's for next set of pictures.


View attachment 2

Here I'm using 4 Turnigy 6s 5ah batteries hooked in series and parallel for 12s2p. In this pic, I have the power and balance cables paralleled on each side

 

[wesnewell]

First of all, this isn't bulk charging, unless you don't connect the balance wires to the charger. There's a youtube video on how to charge using the 1220. Maybe you should watch it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cP8-1pQ2nRg
BTW, this is the simplest way to hook up a 12s2p pack.

You have balance plugs paralleled right. You don't need to parallel the main power leads at all except on the ends where you plug into the controller obviously. So you've got a lot of crap not needed that just makes it hard to tell what's what for my old eyes.
The charger has 2 ports for the balance connectors. The left is for the high side (cells 7-12), and the right is for the low side (cells 1-6).

 

[999zip999]

Plug in the power supply and charger first then the main charging leads, then the balance wires. The 1220 will ask if 12s, then the right botton to start charge. Just balance charge ea. time.

 

[drew12345]

Thanks guys. Appreciate the feedback. This is how my pack will be on my bike. I will be upgrading the wiring. Just laid it on floor to make easy reference. In second set of pictures, if I just connected everything that says "connect?", will it work?

 

[dogman dan]

I'm not following the spaghetti, but one thing we do know.

Don't make parallel connections between series connected packs. You will see sparks.

You should be able to just charge 12s with that charger. If you want to add packs, you can parallel them first, then each section of paralleled packs can be series connected. Slightly different from the way Wes likes to do it.

 

[drew12345]

Sorry for spaghetti. I'm very visual and why I laid all this stuff in pictures.

Actually , what you said is what I have done here. I paralleled balance cables of batteries that were in parallel. It looks like a lot of wires because it's parallel harness.

You know, this is a topic that I need to keep asking questions until I understand.

If anyone with 1220 charger can post pics of your setup, I would appreciate.

Also, I just don't understand the high side of balance connectors. If I connect the balance connectors in pic, does it matter which is low or high side? It seems both are 6s per side.

 

[999zip999]

Yes. 1-6 is 4v to 24v- 7-12 is 28-48v. So it is building voltage as the pack is building in voltage. How do you think 4v cells make 48v it's by counting by 4v in order. Don't mix balance leads.

 

[RayGo]

I'm going to add my 2 cents here since I want to understand this post.

First of all, you do not connect the balance leads to the 1220 if you are really only doing a bulk charge of your 12s pack. However, you must then manually set the cell count parameter on the 1220 to "12" cells. Then set your type of lithium, desired cell voltage, capacity (5Ah) and charging amperage. Then you are good to go with the bulk charge.

In your first photo, you appear to have the correct setup for a balance charge of your 12sp1 pack. As Zip stated, do not mix up the balance connectors between the 1220 and your pack. I think the 1-6 balance lead on the 1220 should connect to the negative side of your serialized pack. I do not know what will happen if you mix the two balance connectors.

For a bulk or balance charge of multiple packs, you need to add multiple charging connectors from the 1220. Fabricate your own connectors or use a parallel charging board. For example, see Hobbyking Parallel charging Board for 6 packs 2~6S at http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__24475__Hobbyking_Parallel_charging_Board_for_6_packs_2_6S_EC3_.html. Of course, you will need to match your connector types.

I have not serialized or paralleled packs before so I don't have any experience with this yet but may in the future. Anyway hope this helps.

 

[RayGo]

Found an interesting parallel charging board that might suit your needs:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__28274__Parallel_Charging_Board_for_6_packs_2_6S_Bare_Leads_.html

This would work for your charging cables and if you are doing a bulk charge. If you need to do a parallel balance charge, you will need another similar breakout board but only using the balance connectors.

 

[drew12345]

Thanks everyone for feedback. I'm going to read these in detail and get back to you tomorrow. This has been very helpful. Thanks again.

 

[999zip999]

Frist set up 1220 for your setup,
Take 2- 6s packs 5000mah ( or ) in series
Plug in power supply
Plug in charger
Plug in the 2 series connected packs as 12s at the main wires.
Connect balance wires.
Hit start botton right side.
Questions ?

 

[999zip999]

If I'm south speak up.
Dogman with mutli lico what's the worry of con. More in ser. Like balance boards ?
I use high output 1500 cycle lifepo4 no junk. Hobby queen. ?

 

[drew12345]

Frist set up 1220 for your setup,
Take 2- 6s packs 5000mah ( or ) in series
Plug in power supply
Plug in charger
Plug in the 2 series connected packs as 12s at the main wires.
Connect balance wires.
Hit start botton right side.
Questions ?

Right, that's what I had in mind. I just didn't know which balance plug was the low side. From the what I researched below, it's the negative side of serial pack. In fact, one said below that if you hook up wrong, it just errors out. I think I am good.

Also interesting from research is that this charger does support bulk charging. But why not just use the balance plugs?

I will test out today and do a video.

https://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=54856
To charge using the Thunder 1220. Hook up main leads and and balance plugs into charger. The 2 balance plugs you are left with after paralleling the balance leads as above must go into the proper ports of the charger. The plug closest to the negative end of the pack is the low side, cells 1-6. The plug closest to the positive end of the pack is the high side, cells 7-12. If you reverse the plugs into the charger, they won't balance right.


http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=58321&hilit=1220
I have the Thunder 1220 charger. It can be used to both bulk and balance charge your battery pack. The 1220 will "guess" the number of cells that it detects and you need to be sure it is the correct number or else you need to manually adjust it. My 1220 usually "sees" only 11 cells in my 12s pack, so I need to adjust the cell count.


http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=56714&p=846239&hilit=1220#p846239
Interesting izeman. I have a Thunder 1220 and a Hyperion 1420 and have accidentally reversed the two, 6S balance leads on my 12S battery. All I get is an error message, no fireworks. I then put them in the correct order and the chargers then balance charge There are failsafes in both chargers to protect the forgetful like me, at least that has been my experience.
otherDoc

 

[drew12345]

K, I successfully did a test with setup in my pictures above. I was able to Parallel/Serial Charge with Balance Connectors and also Bulk Charge. I did a video on this. Can you guys look at it and see if any major issues. Hopefully, nothing where I need to record another video. I can add text to video for suggestions or corrections. Sorry the gopro made it seem like I was recording at a distance. You may want to view in full screen.

Edit: Replaced video below with one from Second camera I had going. Volume may be a little loud so turn down.

[youtube]SwRSlXQ1mrY[/youtube]

 

[999zip999]

Your lucky you don't get a hyperion 1420 as they are a lot harder to set up with the menu's. I was scared when I first got my balance charger. It's a head scarger.

 

[RayGo]

As you experienced, it is very simple to bulk charge with the 1220. Bulk charging is a lot faster than balance charging a battery pack. I usually bulk charge my Lifep04 A123 12s 20ah pack at 3amps and the cells stay in good balance. Deviation is within 50mv mainly because I have 1 cell that's not as good as all the rest. Every 4th or 5th time I bulk charge, I will balance charge at 1a immediately after the bulk charge. In less than an hour, my pack is almost perfectly balanced.

I tried balance charging at 3a in the past but the charging time was very long. I usually only drain my pack down about 7a, so bulk charge time is just over 2 hours at 3a. The balance charge for the 7a took over 6 hours. I could see the 1220 change mode from charging to discharging as it balanced the individual cells. I have read posts where people let their packs balance charge overnight or longer. I don't like to have the pack charging unattended.

If you every get a chance to use Discharge mode with the Thunder 1220, please let me know if you can discharge a cell or pack at more than 1a. I tried setting the discharge rate higher than 1a but the 1220 will automatically limit the rate to 1a. I was trying to do a capacity test of a 20ah cell and it took almost 20 hours.

 

[drew12345]

Your lucky you don't get a hyperion 1420 as they are a lot harder to set up with the menu's. I was scared when I first got my balance charger. It's a head scarger.

came close to getting that one. It was between thunder and hyperion. I only got the thunder because it was a little cheaper. Interesting to know about the menus. Yeah, because I'm relatively new at this, I get nervous messing with this stuff.

As you experienced, it is very simple to bulk charge with the 1220. Bulk charging is a lot faster than balance charging a battery pack. I usually bulk charge my Lifep04 A123 12s 20ah pack at 3amps and the cells stay in good balance. Deviation is within 50mv mainly because I have 1 cell that's not as good as all the rest. Every 4th or 5th time I bulk charge, I will balance charge at 1a immediately after the bulk charge. In less than an hour, my pack is almost perfectly balanced.

I tried balance charging at 3a in the past but the charging time was very long. I usually only drain my pack down about 7a, so bulk charge time is just over 2 hours at 3a. The balance charge for the 7a took over 6 hours. I could see the 1220 change mode from charging to discharging as it balanced the individual cells. I have read posts where people let their packs balance charge overnight or longer. I don't like to have the pack charging unattended.

If you every get a chance to use Discharge mode with the Thunder 1220, please let me know if you can discharge a cell or pack at more than 1a. I tried setting the discharge rate higher than 1a but the 1220 will automatically limit the rate to 1a. I was trying to do a capacity test of a 20ah cell and it took almost 20 hours.

Thanks for this info. Good to know!

 

[dnmun]

don't discharge the pack through the internal shunt. use an external dummy load like a radiant heater to increase the discharge rate.

just because you balance charge occasionally, that does not reduce the risk to zero that the pack can have a failure during any subsequent bulk charging.

if you wanna bulk charge then just use a BMS to protect the battery instead of putting up with the slow charging he complained about. you really don't wanna be charging lipo at higher than 1C anyway in spite of all these wonderful advancements in battery chemistry. there was a good reason the 1C charging rate limit was there for so long. maybe the reason has gone away since they make the pouches so much larger and different electrolytes but 1C should be the golden rule imo.

 

[RayGo]

dnmun: Thanks for the info. Questions for you.

What type of failure are you talking about "during subsequent bulk charging"?

Also, won't a BMS work basically the same way as balance mode in a smart charger? Both balance individual cells by charging and discharging cells to the specified voltage. I've read on posts here that people leave their chargers running overnight or longer to balance their cells. So longer balance charge times are the result of cells being more out of balance. However, the charge time should be same for a BMS or balance charge.

I was also hoping to use the 1220 as an easy way to measure cell/pack capacity. Just "lazy" and wanting to avoid building an external dummy load test unit.

 

[drew12345]

I am planning on going bms for my other bike that is 18s. I was thinking about bms for my 12s pack but could never figure out the bms. It looked complicated. But will do research or start another thread and create a video when I do for my 18s pack.

 

[drew12345]

I replaced video above. I had a second camera going and that video came out better. Thanks.

 

[dnmun]

dnmun: Thanks for the info. Questions for you.

What type of failure are you talking about "during subsequent bulk charging"?

Also, won't a BMS work basically the same way as balance mode in a smart charger? Both balance individual cells by charging and discharging cells to the specified voltage. I've read on posts here that people leave their chargers running overnight or longer to balance their cells. So longer balance charge times are the result of cells being more out of balance. However, the charge time should be same for a BMS or balance charge.

I was also hoping to use the 1220 as an easy way to measure cell/pack capacity. Just "lazy" and wanting to avoid building an external dummy load test unit.

you don't have to build a dummy load. you can use a radiant floor heater or oil bath type radiator, something like a Pelonius, as the dummy load.

a balancing charger has the BMS balancing network built into the charger. it charges the battery from the ends through the big wires and the balance leads are how it drains the charge off of the higher cells.

the balancing charger has active electronic elements called comparators that find the highest cells as it is charging and starts discharging the charge from them as soon as it gets close to full charge.

a BMS usually is set up to allow the pack to reach full charge or close to it when it starts balancing the cells.

 

[999zip999]

A bms is ez to setup. I start with the neg. Sense wire and move down the pack hooking up pos. leads in order to the pos. end. I hang the plug in the air like a parachute. The neg. Pin outs and done. You can check the right cell order by the building cell voltage.
Dnmum must have a thread. Ez peze.

 

[melodious]

Saw your YT video showing your setup. Thanks for sharing. I'll be copying your charging method using the 1220 thunder. I'll also use the charger for my Eskateboard as well :wink:

 

[drew12345]

You're welcome!