Help my bike does not work

[bkwilless]

So my I let my buddy ride the bike and he bailed only after 20 feet in puddle. He smashed the wires coming out of the axle.

It is a BMC V3 motor and the BMC 50A controller. So I just finished re-wiring it. I have checked and triple checked the wires.

The thing doesn't move. I opened the back plate of the controller and there is a flashing led inside so it's getting power.

Any ideas???

Please help.

 

[Lessss]

1st) Your buddy isn't a buddy but an asshole. Any friend would have gotten their feet wet rather than dump your bike.
2nd) you may have fried a hall sensor
3rd) you may have blown the controller
4th) if lucky it could just be two hall sensor wires shorting at the axle



Do you have a voltmeter?

 

[aaronski]

in my experience, if you short the HAL wires coming out of the axle, you've also fried the HAL's. you can:

wire it up, spin the motor backwards, by hand, and watch the halls, they should go from 0-5v or some such.

you'll need a mulitmeter for that. Or you can by an ebike tester from Lyen. it will tell you what's wrong with the wiring.

 

[bkwilless]

Thank you for your comments. Instead of my lame attempts to explain things with words I have posted videos on youtube. If you could take some time to watch them and then help me out I would really appreciate it.

This video shows the bike not working once I read your guys' comments I then made another video testing the hall sensors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327M_bGlfOw&feature=channel_video_title

Here is the video testing the hall sensors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf9jVd7KBlM&feature=channel

Again thanks so much for the advice.

Brian

 

[itselectric]

Thank you for your comments. Instead of my lame attempts to explain things with words I have posted videos on youtube. If you could take some time to watch them and then help me out I would really appreciate it.

This video shows the bike not working once I read your guys' comments I then made another video testing the hall sensors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=327M_bGlfOw&feature=channel_video_title

Here is the video testing the hall sensors.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xf9jVd7KBlM&feature=channel

Again thanks so much for the advice.

Brian

Brian:

I am tried listen to you video, but it wasn't clear. Were you able to get your hall wire changing voltage 0 - 5? If you do, does all of them change voltage?
What is your voltage of battery pack?
You have the BMC 50amp controller, correct? there is jumper wire that set between 36 and 48v. If the jumper wire is open, it set to run at 48v, if it is close that set to be run with 36v

Ken

 

[Ypedal]

First thing, it's a geared motor so pedaling will not make the insides of the motor spin when you want to test the hall sensors..( it spins free inside )

2nd, don't short out the motor leads like that with a battery, that 12v pack likely canot put out enough amps to fry things but it's no the right thing to do... You want to test those larger gauge wires from the motor for shorts using the right setting on your meter, the " Ohm " or horseshoe symbol on the meter will show either " OL " or " 0.000 " when the leads are not touching and the display will change when you tough the probes to eachother... so.. probe each combination of yellow/green/blue and see if they are internally shorting somewhere or not.

*goes off looking for fechter's thread..

 

[Ypedal]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3720

 

[bkwilless]

I will read the thread (fechter's). The phase wires are fine. I had already checked them. It is a 52 volt battery pack.

So what I am hearing from Ypedal is that I need to open it up and spin it by hand. Thanks I didn't think of the freewheel.

All wires are fine from internal of the motor to internal of the controller. I used the setting on the tester that beeps when there is current.

 

[bkwilless]

http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=3720

Informative thread. thanks.

I will pull the cover plate off and retest the sensors or just use one of the strong magnets I have to wave past it.

Important question if it does show a high voltage but does not toggle then it is bad?

 

[bkwilless]

So I came to the conclusion that yes if it doesn't change voltage than it is a bad hall sensor. And surprise no where to buy here on the island.

Does anyone know what one I need? Where I can get one? The "fechter's" thread is not the same hall sensor.

I have mutilated the bread board a little as well. Anyone know where to get one of those? It is the 1000 watt bmc v3 motor.

Thanks

 

[bkwilless]

I finaly got new hall sensors. I installed them and no luck - but the flashing light on the controller is now a different indication.

I also checked the wires again and noticed there seemed to be a short between the phase wires. I removed them and tested the phases in the windings. All three get a singal between each other.

Should this happen? does this mean there is a short in the windings?

Thanks

 

[FMB42]

I also checked the wires again and noticed there seemed to be a short between the phase wires. I removed them and tested the phases in the windings. All three get a singal between each other.

Should this happen? does this mean there is a short in the windings?

Thanks

Yes, you should have continuity between the winding leads (the resistance should readout to approximately the same resistance (ohm) value between each of the three wires in every sequence).

You should not, however, have any continuity between the phase windings and ground (i.e. the motor shaft and/or hub housing, etc).

BTW, be sure to disconnect all of the motor wires before you test the windings. Next, touch each motor wire to ground before you begin testing just to be on the safe side.

 

[bkwilless]

That puts me at a lost then. I don't know what to do. I replaced the hall sensors and the phase wires and it doesn't work.

Though the code on the controller has changed. Which is nice but I still don't know the codes. Maybe it's somthing in the controller????

If only BMC had better customer service.

 

[FMB42]

Let's start from the beginning.

First, we'll need the following information:

1. Who did you buy this system from?

2. What "code" sequence is the controller indicating at this point?

3. What "code" sequence did the controller indicate prior to the hall sensor replacement?

4. Please further explain what you mean by "I have mutilated the bread board". If you're talking about the controller circuit board then, that's probably all or part of where you problem lies at this point.

I'd further suggest that you check the following:

1. Make sure that the system battery is fully charged by carefully checking the voltage output (at the battery itself).

2. Test the system with the appropriate system battery.

3. Double check any and all system fuses.

4. Make sure that the brake cutoff/cutout switches (if applicable) are operating correctly.

5. Double check every wire for both continuity, short circuits, and shorts to ground.

6. Double check every wire connection.

7. Double check that the system is configured for the correct battery voltage (as per "itselectric's" advice).


I would suspect a bad throttle and/or controller if system passes the above tests. The "ebikesSF" website has several technical articles that might be of help:

http://ebikessf.com/ttm/menu-technicalarticles

http://ebikessf.com/bmc-throttle-pinout

http://ebikessf.com/BMC-50A-controller-outline

Note: pay close attention to the throttle pinout voltage and ground values as per the throttle pinout link above. You can test the throttle by performing the general hall effect throttle testing steps below:

1. The throttle ground should have continuity to ground (i.e. the controller/bike frame/hub motor axle).

2. The "+5" pin (from the controller throttle connector) should show 5 volts. If not, the controller or controller wiring and/or wire connections are probably bad.

3. The "speed signal/hall sensor output" pin (from the throttle connector) should sweep from 0 volts to ~5 volts as you open and close the throttle. Suspect a bad throttle or bad throttle wires and/or connections if this test shows no voltage or a constant voltage while turning the throttle.


Here's a link with some general DC brushless motor design, construction, and testing information:


http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:J75OcM5UaeMJ:www.gobrushless.com/GBL_single_v2.pdf+troubleshooting+a+brushless+DC+motor&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg8LiR1kgBmWk7ociOnCBRpeglzKO5xbAkOMKPXWny0NVBnEpH-j3fKEoJdN-7A1ein9lm84tvYjUxHMhzti52AQ8nt-HX8o7PmRw_6Xaku8BFT05vqt3k0Tn76EI54RokbPmYH&sig=AHIEtbRdN_rlxPPCMdxvEi8P-VAfTxfnZw


Meanwhile, maybe some of us can find out what the controller "codes" are for your BMC controller...

BTW, electrical/electronic troubleshooting can be frustrating at times. Hang in there, you'll figure this thing out.

 

[bkwilless]

FMB42 - thank you very much for your continued imput.

I have made a new video showing the current progress. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfmfQJGC1Ao

Please excuse the quality as I am an amature and I used our digital camera to make it.

Brian

 

[FMB42]

Hey bk,

Sorry, I've been working and, as such, haven't had much time to research the problem with your BMC system (and your video doesn't seem to run very well on my PC).

Anyway, have you had a chance to test the throttle input/outputs yet? You will, of course, need a digital multimeter in order to test the control input and throttle signal output. You can buy a Harbor Freight digital multimeter for a little as ~$5 if, you don't have one already (this is a "must have" tool btw).

Let us know if you have any questions on how to test your throttle and we'll walk you through the process.

 

[bkwilless]

I am getting 56volts at the throttle.

Shouldn't it be 5 volts?

 

[aaronski]

Edit: I am wrong. Removed incorrect info.
4 wire throttles will have pack voltage to the throttle for led battery gauge. 3 wire type should not.

 

[bkwilless]

Ya its 56 volts. My multimeter reads the same at the batter (I check just in case I was confused :wink: )

BW

 

[Rassy]

Aaronski said:

You should nEver have pack voltage to the throttle.

Hate jumping into the middle like this, but the above statement is not true. Many controllers have a "fourth" wire that goes to the throttle and carries full battery voltage. It is normally used on SLA systems to indicate the state of charge in the battery via LED's.

Granted, most of us do not connect this wire to the throttle, since it is often the source of problems within the throttle, plus the LED's are pretty much meaningless on any chemistry except SLA. Also, the LED's only work properly at the designed voltage of the system.

Having said the above, of course if your main throttle input wire is at full voltage, that is a problem. Good luck solving this issue.

 

[sangesf]

Also, if the throttle is stuck at full throttle, that's usually an indication of a bad negative lead.
On my controller, if you remove the black negative lead from the throttle, it stays stuck at 5v on the controller side.
Run new wires from the throttle to the controller and I bet you'll have no problems.
(splice back about 3 inches from each connector and connect them directly and try the wheel)

 

[bkwilless]

I just got this form Ilia at ebikessf
Usually controller throttle has 4 pins:

1. +5v
2. ground
3. throttle out
4. battery + (actual battery voltage)

So if you're measuring 2 to 4, there will be an actual battery voltage

I will remeasure I am trying to see if the two hall sensors in the throttle are bad.

BW

 

[FMB42]

The following is in reference to the link below:

http://ebikessf.com/bmc-throttle-pinout

1. Disconnect the controller/throttle connector.

1a. Test the controller side Grey/Ground wire for voltage. Suspect shorted wires, and/or a faulty controller and/or motor if voltage is indicated at the Grey/Ground wire coming from the controller side of the controller/throttle connector.

1b. Test for continuity between the controller side of the Grey/Ground wire and the controller housing. Suspect an open or broken ground wire if no continuity is indicated.

1c. Test for 5+ volts at the red wire on the controller side of the controller/throttle wire connector. Suspect a faulty controller and/or shorted or open wires if 5 volts (+ or - ~1 volt) are not indicated at the red wire.

1d. Test for full system (battery) voltage at the orange "state of (battery) charge display" wire.

2. Connect the controller/throttle connector and then repeat the steps above by carefully probing the proper wires. Suspect a faulty throttle if any of these steps indicate a failure.

2a. Probe the yellow throttle signal wire (meter +) and Grey/Ground wire (meter -) with your voltmeter. The voltage should range between ~0 and ~ 5+ volts as you open and close the throttle. If not, suspect a faulty throttle.

 

[bkwilless]

So I put a new hall sensor in the throttle. But now I am getting 3volts and not five coming out of the controller.