HEY YOU! yeah you.. Japan needs your help!

Dee Jay

100 kW
Joined
Dec 11, 2007
Messages
1,211
Please don’t send money directly to me :mrgreen: cos we might actually leave Japan sooner but Japan still needs your help!

Electrical engineers, retirees, and ebikers, greenie-weenies: please donate to Japan earthquake relief.

Fear mongers, guilt trippers and donation scammers: Repent now. Send money or go to hell! :twisted: :wink:

http://www.jrc.or.jp/english/

No really :wink: Please help Japan :|
 
It will be so sad to leave my chosen home and we may never be able to return because I really don’t think Japan may ever recover as the nuclear meltdown slowly continues to contaminate its soil and its waters, and continues to contaminate the entire globe. So if you think you’re too far to be affected, think again. :|

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Given the state of the US nuclear industry, Japan may be the better place... Imagine the mayhem when it happens here.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnlxtxW2oDWrH5uizepE8mYnk3XA?docId=18e04eb81cd043508b5cf59d14a4ed41
 
TylerDurden said:
Given the state of the US nuclear industry, Japan may be the better place... Imagine the mayhem when it happens here.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jnlxtxW2oDWrH5uizepE8mYnk3XA?docId=18e04eb81cd043508b5cf59d14a4ed41

Yeah it might actually be better to stay cos gasses and particles are being carried out from Japan to the West Coast, North West and BC Canada.. But now the midwest is getting ready to spew toxins? We are fuct. We are fuct and nobody cares. To make matters worse, fear mongers / scam artists are rising out of their graves..And you KNOW the plant workers are dumping all the contaminated water into the pacific ocean YOU JUST KNOW IT. John Laroche was right for renouncing fish. Fnck fish. No more Fish n Chips for this baby-san… And I LOVED FISH.. :cry:
 
do you really know for a fact that the tokyo area has large amounts of radionuclides present in the local area? seems like i would know that in spite of the guvment and TEPCO suppressing it. why would you abandon your country now in any case. i thought the japanese were different. you sound like a soccer mom.

if i were you, instead of begging for donations which will be like grains of sand in the huge financial hole this accident following the tohoku earthquake and tsunami, you should be working to force the guvment and local agencies to reopen the other nuclear plants which are still shut down following the earthquake.

you need the power from those plants and putting your head in sand like the japanese have done about their management culture for so many decades will only leave you guys farther behind the chinese. but you can be thankful that the europeans have now abandoned nuclear, so they will also suffer the same economic impacts as japan.

the chinese will really appreciate not having any competition to buy the uranium for their 34 reactors they are building. thank you japan and europe, my investments in oil and gas will now make even more money as the nuclear free zones fall further behind.
 
What's a few millirems of radiation gonna hurt? More than that spews out of a coal powered power plant from the trace uranium, radium, and thorium present in the coal.
 
dnmun said:
do you really know for a fact that the tokyo area has large amounts of radionuclides present in the local area? seems like i would know that in spite of the guvment and TEPCO suppressing it.
You're in Oregon and you're not concerned?
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if i were you, instead of begging for donations which will be like grains of sand in the huge financial hole this accident following the tohoku earthquake and tsunami, you should be working to force the guvment and local agencies to reopen the other nuclear plants which are still shut down following the earthquake

Wow.. where did the whole “compassionate” ES family gone to?? I can’t even get the time of day.. All I’m getting is attitude from dumun.. if you’re gonna be so generous then you know where you can go..

you need the power from those plants and putting your head in sand like the japanese have done about their management culture for so many decades will only leave you guys farther behind the chinese.

From what I read the Chinese are more concerned about containing the situation and about nuclear fallout than Racing with the Joneses. Many other neighboring countries had banned Japanese exports.

And I never said I was anti-nuclear, the internet and so many technologies that we depend on to accelerate human evolution wouldn’t be reliable without it. What gets to me are the dumb experts who think they know it all. With your “GW” worth of electrical knowledge, please tell me what could’ve been done to prevent a meltdown?

why would you abandon your country now in any case. i thought the japanese were different.

Humans have this really bad habit of moving when there is danger, cattle stay put and wait for instructions. You can’t have an economy in Japan without children. And what is Japan without a steady supply of seafood? The government had failed in helping its people and they will continue to do so just to “save face”. The evacuation zone is getting bigger so who knows how bad things really are and how much worse it can get?? not the government or nuke “experts” and I don’t plan on waiting around to find out. Kids from Fukushima have tested positive, but do you care? nah, not one iota

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you sound like a soccer mom.

Only people who don’t have children are as at ease as you are. Obviously you don’t have kids to worry about and never planned on having any maybe because you are *
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dSd-1swoJ4A&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-Aj57XzYmA&NR
 
You know what's getting on my nerves? That these Fukushima residents are waiting for the Japanese government to give the green light to go ahead and evacuate... Why don't they just pack important documents and family photos, leave everything behind and JUST-TAKE-THE-frock-OFF?

I have only 3 conclusions:

1) THEY REALLY ARE CATTLE

2) They would rather suffer the effects of contamination because it will be easier to blame the Tepco and the Japanese government later

3) They are afraid to be accused of being deserters.


Any others? Did I miss something?

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they DO NOT CARE. They will sell contaminated food. But HEY they'll accept refunds :roll:

http://english.kyodonews.jp/news/2011/07/103533.html

Ito-Yokado, Aeon supermarkets sell Fukushima beef

TOKYO, July 18, Kyodo

Supermarket operator Ito-Yokado Co. said Monday it sold 41.7 kilograms of meat from a cow shipped from Fukushima Prefecture and contaminated with radioactive cesium at two of its outlets in Chiba Prefecture.

The company has decided to suspend sales of Fukushima-produced beef for the time being, it said. The beef in question was sold at its outlets in Narita and Nagareyama between July 1 and 10, according to Ito-Yokado.

Ito-Yokado said it will accept returns and provide refunds on the products.
 
but do you even know how much activity was in that 100lbs of meat? is it as much as the exposure from one long transpacific flight?

thanks for adding to the hysteria. now that kan has decided to remove nuclear power from your power supply, the country will no longer have trains that run on time. electric rates will get so high that japan will lead the world in energy conservation techniques, and public programs to eliminate energy consumption.

it has also finally put a floor under the price of natural gas here in the US. as production here from the shale fracs has skyrocketed, the price has dropped like a rock and made natural gas production a money losing proposition. now that japan has effectively eliminated 30% of their electric production, the amount of LNG they have sucked out of the spot markets finally brought an end to endless drop in the price of natural gas here. thank you. it provides financial support for me and my cats.

got BHP to pay top dollar for petrohawk too.
 
you remind me of the japanese office workers caught on video during march 11 quake trying to keep their expensive LCD computer monitors from falling off their work desks. That was a stupid ass thing to do.

Let those stupid monitors go and get yourself under somewhere safe.

Fnck the electric trains, fnck the electric rates, if the nuke experts can't even handle doing a little house cleaning by getting rid of spent fuel rods or have enough wisdom or too tight to think about spending money on a redundant back up generator system or even a electrical network back up system to ensure that the deadliest materials like URANIUM are being handled properly... then fnck all that, and fnck 10 GW corporate asses like you... I'd rather let it all go down. I can live with my family like a caveman but aleast we're alive. We can all start all over again.

Oh hey Mods, go ahead and censor me again, I see it coming... sweep all this under the Toxic threads carpet, Y..
 

Special report: Fukushima long ranked most hazardous plant

By Chisa Fujioka and Kevin Krolicki – Tue Jul 26, 5:41 pm ET
TOKYO (Reuters) – Japan's Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant ranked as
one of the most dangerous in the world for radiation exposure years
before it was destroyed by the meltdowns and explosions that followed
the March 11 earthquake.

For five years to 2008, the Fukushima plant was rated the most
hazardous nuclear facility in Japan for worker exposure to radiation and
one of the five worst nuclear plants in the world on that basis. The next
rankings, compiled as a three-year average, are due this year.

Reuters uncovered these rankings, privately tracked by Fukushima's operator Tokyo Electric Power, in a
review of documents and presentations made at nuclear safety conferences over the past seven years.
In the United States -- Japan's early model in nuclear power -- Fukushima's lagging safety record would have
prompted more intensive inspections by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission. It would have also invited
scrutiny from the U.S. Institute of Nuclear Power Operations, an independent nuclear safety organization
established by the U.S. power industry after the Three Mile Island accident in 1979, experts say.

But that kind of stepped-up review never happened in Tokyo, where the Nuclear and Industrial Safety Agency
remains an adjunct of the trade ministry charged with promoting nuclear power.

As Japan debates its future energy policy after the worst nuclear accident since Chernobyl, a Reuters review
of the long-troubled record at Fukushima shows how hard it has been to keep the country's oldest reactors
running in the best of times. It also shows how Japan's nuclear establishment sold nuclear power to the public
as a relatively cheap energy source in part by putting cost-containment ahead of radiation safety over the past
several decades.

"After the Fukushima accident, we need to reconsider the cost of nuclear power," Tatsujiro Suzuki, vice
chairman of Japan's Atomic Energy Commission, told Reuters. "It's not enough to meet safety standards. The
industry needs to search for the best performance."

In an illustration of the scale of the safety problems at Fukushima, Tokyo Electric had set a 10-year goal that
insiders considered ambitious in 2007. The plan was to reduce radiation exposure for workers at Fukushima to
bring the facility from near rock-bottom in the industry's global safety rankings to somewhere below-average by
2017, documents show.

"Severer management than before will be required," Tokyo Electric safety researcher Yasunori Kokubun and
four other colleagues said in an English-language 2004 report. That report examined why Japan lagged other
countries such as France and the United States in limiting radiation exposure for workers during plant
maintenance.

The report came from an earlier period of corporate soul searching by Tokyo Electric, a politically powerful
regional monopoly in Japan that ran the Fukushima power station and remains in charge of the clean-up work
at the crippled plant expected to take a decade or more.

In 2002, the chairman and president of the utility were forced to step down after regulators concluded the
company had routinely filed false reports during safety inspections and hid evidence of trouble at its reactors,
including Fukushima. All 17 of Tokyo Electric's reactors were ordered shut down. The last of those did not
restart until 2005.

COST-SAVING CULTURE
As part of a bid to win back public trust, the utility promised to repair a "safety culture" it said had failed in the
scandal. Teams of newly empowered radiation safety managers were created and began to audit the
company's nuclear operations, including Fukushima. They also reported back findings to other nuclear plant
company's nuclear operations, including Fukushima. They also reported back findings to other nuclear plant
operators and regulators. None of the utility's safety managers who gave those archived presentations
responded to requests for comment for this report.

One problem, according to one of those early assessments, was that Tokyo Electric's managers on the
ground tended to put cost savings ahead of a commitment to keep driving worker radiation doses "as low as
reasonably achievable," the international standard for safety.

Take maintenance, for instance. Japanese plants are required to shut down every 13 months for almost four
months at a time -- twice as long as the U.S. average. Tepco was slow to invest in the more expensive
radiation safety precautions needed during maintenance, thus lowering the cost of operating Fukushima before
the accident.

But that focus on costs also kept Tepco from developing a more active commitment to worker safety that
could have helped it navigate the March disaster, officials now say.

After the earthquake, contract workers at Fukushima were sent in without radiation meters or basic gear such
as rubber boots. Screening for radiation from dust and vapor inhaled by workers was delayed for weeks until
experts said the testing was almost meaningless. At least 39 workers were exposed to more than 100
millisieverts of radiation, five times the maximum allowed in a normal year.

Fukushima Daiichi, built in a poor region on Japan's Pacific Coast to supply power to Tokyo, was pushed into
crisis by the massive March 11 earthquake and the tsunami that hit less than an hour later. The backup power
systems meant to keep its radioactive fuel cool were disabled, leading to meltdowns, explosions and radiation
spewing into the environment, forcing the evacuation of more than 80,000 residents.

Goshi Hosono, the government minister appointed to coordinate Japan's response to the Fukushima crisis,
said he was not aware of the details of Fukushima's radiation safety record before March 11 and declined to
comment on that basis.

But he said the utility had failed to protect workers in the chaos that followed the accident, prompting a
reprimand from government officials and a decision by regulators to take charge of radiation health monitoring
at the plant.

"In normal times, radiation monitoring would be left to the plant operator, but these are not normal times,"
Hosono told Reuters.

HIGHER RADIATION IN OLD PLANTS
In a June report to the International Atomic Energy Agency, Japanese officials said basic design failures, a
fatal underestimation of tsunami risk and a chaotic decision-making process had contributed to the disaster.
But they also said Tokyo Electric's "safety culture" had failed it again.

Outside experts agreed. "The main root causes of this man-made disaster can be found in (Tokyo Electric's)
ineffective -- exemplary poor -- safety practices and track record," said Najim Meshkati, an engineering
professor at the University of Southern California and former U.S. government science advisor.

In response to questions about the radiation safety record at Fukushima, Tokyo Electric said that radiation
exposure for each individual worker at the plant had been kept below the regulatory standard. The overall
radiation level remained relatively high because the plant's six reactors were all between 30 and 40 years old
at the time of the accident, the utility said.

"Because it was an older plant it required longer maintenance periods and more intensive repair work," Tokyo
Electric spokeswoman Ryoko Sakai said. "For that reason, the overall radiation exposure was higher than our
other plants."

The General Electric-derived design of the reactors at Fukushima posed a particular safety challenge during
routine shutdowns because radioactive steam is allowed to circulate through the power-generating turbine.
That means that large parts of the power plant pose a radiation risk during repairs, experts say.

But even compared to other boiling water reactors, Fukushima stood out for its risks. At the start of the
decade, each of its reactors had exposed workers to 2.5 times the amount of radiation they would have faced
in an average U.S. reactor of the same design. By 2009, that gap had narrowed, but exposure at Fukushima
was still 1.7 times the U.S. average and equivalent to subjecting workers on the site to a collective 1,500 fullbody
CT scans each year.

Because of Fukushima's high radiation, Tokyo Electric brought in thousands of workers each year, often to
work just a few days on the most hazardous jobs. The utility employed almost 9,000 contract workers
annually on average at the plant over the past decade, according to records kept by Japan's trade ministry.
Those workers were needed in part to allow Tokyo Electric to meet the international safety standard Japan
had committed to in 2001. Under that standard, workers were limited to 20 millisieverts of radiation exposure
in an average year, equivalent to getting two CT scans at work.

But even with its extraordinary work force, the average contract worker at Fukushima was exposed to 73
percent more radiation than the average nuclear worker at other plants in Japan over the past decade,
according to a Reuters review of data from Japan's trade and industry ministry. The same worker was also
exposed to almost three times the amount of radiation that Tokyo Electric's own staff faced. The average
radiation dose ran almost a third higher than for U.S. workers at similar plants.

The number of Fukushima workers near the annual limit for radiation also remained troublingly high. Over the
past five years, each Fukushima reactor exposed almost 300 workers to between 10 and 20 millisieverts of
radiation, the Reuters review of the data showed. The comparable figure for U.S. reactors of similar design was
just 22 workers per reactor with those kinds of exposure levels.

'THIS SITUATION IS THE WORST'
Part of the reason was that Fukushima maintenance work took almost three times longer than comparable
jobs at U.S. plants -- more than four months on average. But American utilities have also spent heavily as a
group on steps to reduce worker exposure, including building mock-up reactors so workers could rehearse
dangerous jobs almost as commandos would.

"We are ready and willing to spend money to reduce worker doses," said John Bickel, a nuclear safety expert
who has consulted for the NRC and the IAEA. "I would characterize that there is an intense competition in the
U.S. to be the lowest."

By contrast, critics of the Japanese nuclear industry cite records showing how Tokyo Electric and other
utilities shifted the health risks of operating nuclear plants to a group of relatively poor and sometimes
homeless day laborers desperate for a quick payday.

"Nuclear power is based on discrimination, a system in which the people who are working to protect nuclear
safety end up on the streets and are given the cold shoulder by society. All of us who use electricity are
responsible for this system," said Yuko Fujita, a former physics professor at Keio University who has
campaigned for nuclear worker safety in Japan for over 20 years.

To be sure, Tokyo Electric had taken steps to reduce the amount of radiation workers faced. It changed the
chemistry of water piped through the reactors to reduce corrosion in pipes. It developed robots and remotecontrolled
probes to inspect hazards rather than sending in workers. And it used radiation shields such as
lead "blankets" wrapped around pipes during maintenance to limit radiation in places workers had to be.
Those measures had reduced the overall radiation exposure for workers at Fukushima to a third of the 1978
peak by the start of the past decade, the records show.

But by 2006, Tokyo Electric safety managers had decided that they had to take on a tougher problem to
make any more progress. They needed to reform the basic organization of the utility, where maintenance
managers faced no pressure to meet targets for reducing radiation exposure for the thousands of contractors
and day laborers, two reports show.

The only more dangerous plants from 2003 to 2005 on that basis had been the Tarapur nuclear plant in India,
where two reactors shared the basic Fukushima design, and the Perry nuclear plant on Lake Erie outside
Cleveland, Ohio.

Perry, which is operated by FirstEnergy Corp, was cited by the Nuclear Regulatory Commission for a series of
safety mistakes during a maintenance period in April. In that incident, regulators said four workers were
exposed to high levels of radiation after being sent to retrieve a radiation monitor near the reactor's core. The
plant has been the target of NRC safety inspections for more than three years because of what U.S.
regulators call "human performance" issues in safety management.

COMPLACENCY SETS IN
Tokyo Electric did not come to terms with its own management and organizational problems related to safety
until recent years, the record shows.

Shiro Takahira, a Tokyo Electric manager in charge of radiation safety, showed a conference in October 2006
a chart depicting Fukushima Daiichi as the third-worst nuclear plant in the world in terms of worker exposure
to radiation.

"This graph could be a good driving force to improve our process," Takahira told the radiation safety
conference in Niigata, Japan, according to remarks posted by the organizer. Takahira said Tokyo Electric had
traditionally "put more weight on cost effectiveness" than the need to keep driving radiation exposure down.

"There has been no standard mechanism to promote (the standard of 'as low as reasonably achievable')
systematically and continuously," he said.

By late 2006, radiation safety managers such as Takahira had won a seat at the table in planning repair jobs
at nuclear plants including Fukushima. By 2007, the company set a goal of getting the annual radiation at
each Fukushima reactor to about 2.5 sieverts, a more manageable dose equivalent to about 250 CT scans for
workers. That would mean Fukushima was still lagging the industry but by a narrower margin.
The full-year radiation for 2008 and 2009 came in just below 2.5 sieverts of per reactor just under
the goal managers had set in 2007. On a three-year rolling basis, the exposure was 2.53 sieverts per reactor
between 2007 to 2009.
"We

"We had largely reached our target by 2009," said Tokyo Electric's Sakai.

At that point, some of the urgency behind the safety campaign appeared to drain. "We'll continue to try to
reduce occupational exposures by every possible measure after cost performance evaluations," Shunsuke
Hori, a Tokyo Electric safety manager, said at a September 2009 conference in Aomori, Japan.

Hori was one of two Tokyo Electric safety managers who published what amounted to a declaration of victory
after the nascent effort to improve radiation safety.

"The reliability of Japanese nuclear plants is now quite high," Hori and another Tokyo Electric manager, Akira
Suzuki, wrote in a radiation health journal. "The Japanese nuclear industry has over 40 years of radiation
protection experience, and it is believed that more radiation control will be possible in the future using this
experience."

The upbeat assessment was published in a little-read scientific journal, Radiation Protection Dosimetry, on
April 26, 2011, the 25th anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster.

On the ground in Fukushima that day, white smoke was still steaming off three of the reactors, and residents
to the northwest had started a wider round of evacuations.

(Additional reporting by Scott DiSavino in New York and Eileen O'Grady in Houston) (Editing by Bill Tarrant)
 
Dee Jay said:
You know what's getting on my nerves? That these Fukushima residents are waiting for the Japanese government to give the green light to go ahead and evacuate... Why don't they just pack important documents and family photos, leave everything behind and JUST-TAKE-THE-frock-OFF?

I have only 3 conclusions:

1) THEY REALLY ARE CATTLE

2) They would rather suffer the effects of contamination because it will be easier to blame the Tepco and the Japanese government later


3) They are afraid to be accused of being deserters.


Any others? Did I miss something?

[youtube]CKIF47Ptqgs[/youtube]

hey! wadayaknow... the blame-game started ealier than I predicted!
[youtube]wt1p-tftdaU[/youtube]


Little do they know that blaming the TEPCO Government now does not mean they won't have other things complain about 5 to 10 years later.. ie cancer? I wish they would stop wasting time and energy on blaming and do what this man is saying: Japan has the technological prowess to contain this nuclear nightmare but it's gonna take the private sectorsto get Japan out of this mess.

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