LSBW
100 W
Nice work, but that speaker cable is bad news.
How to build a individual 18650 battery pack, Example 12S8P
- Thread starter ecross
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tomtom123
100 W
Where did you get your cells and how much per cell. I need 26
Man_dizel said:
I use Hyperion 1420i and Graupner Ultramat 18. Both charger have a good price/performance, and certainly a balancer function.
-you are looking for a 48V and 15Ah battery?
-what controller do you use?
-how many discharge A do you need?
-how many charge time do you prefer?
-you are looking for high quality and long calendar lift time?
Man_dizel said:
-you can use the great Sony V4 cells
-for 48V15Ah you need approx. 13S8P this means 48,10V and 16,80Ah
-you need 104 cells
-the cell price here in Germany is expensive, like around 5,90 Euro
-the Graupner charger streetprice is around 129,00 and from the Hyperion around 185,00 Euro
-the great Sony cells and a good RC-charger are, maybe, a overkill but you needn't buy 2-times!
Man_dizel
1 mW
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- May 27, 2013
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ecross said:
Can you recommend Sanyo, Panasonic, Sony batteries from aliexpress? I found a lot of batteries for around $5 inclusive shipping. It says it's genuine but you never know. I want to solder myself just to try it. There are some cells with 3000mAh there also. Maybe that's something for me?
LSBW
100 W
ecross said:
For cell connections I use single strand 12 Ga copper wire:
For the rest of connections I used Turnigy 10 Ga wire, but didn't like it, so I switched to
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/10ga-19-str-t90-nylon-black-300m/908367
10 Ga, 19 strand, PVC jacket is good for 90°C, also rated at 600 volts and heat, moisture, gasoline, and oil resistant.
Teflon and especially speaker wire is just not designed to withstand kind of abuse we experience in ebikes.
Plus I'm pretty sure there was recent topic about shorted speaker wires in ebike application.
LSBW said:ecross said:
For cell connections I use single strand 12 Ga copper wire:
For the rest of connections I used Turnigy 10 Ga wire, but didn't like it, so I switched to
http://www.homedepot.ca/product/10ga-19-str-t90-nylon-black-300m/908367
10 Ga, 19 strand, PVC jacket is good for 90°C, also rated at 600 volts and heat, moisture, gasoline, and oil resistant.
Teflon and especially speaker wire is just not designed to withstand kind of abuse we experience in ebikes.
Plus I'm pretty sure there was recent topic about shorted speaker wires in ebike application.
-great DIY build
-do you use LG 18650 cells. D1 with 3000mAh and 4,35V?
-please send the Ri from this corepack
-how many cycles do you have now
-what charger do you have or BMS do you use for balancing
-what motor and how many current when you crusing
-have found some really good answer from you, topic lifetime, my LiFe have 3000 cycles and your 18650 LiIon only 300 cycles....
...According to the product spec these cells have 300 cycles to 75% capacity at 0.2C discharge rate
For a 800$ pack it means 2.6$ / journey
...It is a valid point. However, 300 cycles times 70 km equals 21.000 km
And yesterday's ride was pretty brutal, I've never assaulted my bike or battery like this before.
I'm pretty sure I can get 100 km on a single charge.
Since March of this year I've done so far on my bike 1300 km.
Let's say 220 km/month, most of it is my work travel, 10 km round trip or 200 km/month
If I continue at this rate, this battery will be good for 95 month, or 10.5 years, since I usually don't ride in Dec, Jan and Feb.
So, never mind 10 years, if this battery will last 5 years, I'll be very happy ebiker.
-to be in complete agreement!
-my oldest Sony 18650 1100mAh LiIon are from 2005 and have +2000cycles, around 81% capacity
...According to the product spec these cells have 300 cycles to 75% capacity at 0.2C discharge rate
For a 800$ pack it means 2.6$ / journey
...It is a valid point. However, 300 cycles times 70 km equals 21.000 km
And yesterday's ride was pretty brutal, I've never assaulted my bike or battery like this before.
I'm pretty sure I can get 100 km on a single charge.
Since March of this year I've done so far on my bike 1300 km.
Let's say 220 km/month, most of it is my work travel, 10 km round trip or 200 km/month
If I continue at this rate, this battery will be good for 95 month, or 10.5 years, since I usually don't ride in Dec, Jan and Feb.
So, never mind 10 years, if this battery will last 5 years, I'll be very happy ebiker.
-to be in complete agreement!
-my oldest Sony 18650 1100mAh LiIon are from 2005 and have +2000cycles, around 81% capacity
madin88 said:ecross said:
are these Konion cells? What charge and discharge currrent did you punch on them?
Charging to 4,1V , cut off >3,3V , cold storage temperature helps a looot to extend cycle and calendar life
-wow really great news, how long do you stay with LiIos 18650 and 26650 cell size? :wink:
-pic 606 to 610
-sorry for the delay, but we have great weather and good view to the Alpen
-I travelled some around, like 50 - 70 km with a battery charge.
-drive to the beer garden and recharge the batterys superfast with my Travel charger. Around 2000W charging power and after 45min. both batterys aro full for the next off-road trip thru the Forrest.
-now some pics from the Home charger solution
Graupner Ultramat 18 (with 120-230Vac, and 12Vdc input!)
Hyperion 1420i with 12-24Vdc input and up to 550W charging power
-sorry for the delay, but we have great weather and good view to the Alpen
-I travelled some around, like 50 - 70 km with a battery charge.
-drive to the beer garden and recharge the batterys superfast with my Travel charger. Around 2000W charging power and after 45min. both batterys aro full for the next off-road trip thru the Forrest.
-now some pics from the Home charger solution
Graupner Ultramat 18 (with 120-230Vac, and 12Vdc input!)
Hyperion 1420i with 12-24Vdc input and up to 550W charging power
Attachments
-why I use not a BMS and use RC-Charger
-I prefer to use no bad Chinese BMS. The pros called this Battery Murder System. All this cheap stuff makes good corepacks like mine bad. All my corepacks or the single cells into 0,003V. When you use the best cells from the market it is no problem with this balancing issue. For example the new Sony 18650V4 high current cells are into 0,003V, with range from 3,0 to 4,2V. I have never seen so good cells. The older Sony V, VT or VT-C are also very good but these new cells are great. But every core pack had little drift and for this issue I prefer so use a modeller charger like Graupner, Hyperion, Icharger or TP 1220 and so on. I charge from time to time with a RC-Charger. Every weekend or month are enough, for balancing and see the real datas and trend from different packs and so on. You can also use a good BMS from Germany or so but these BMS are more expensive then a good charger and you have a limit with your charge and discharge current. For example the new Sony are good for +4C charging current and I test now approx. 42A charging current into my 8P, (8 x 2,100mAh: 16,8Ah!) corepack and I have only 30 min. charging time. My thinking is to buy the best cells because this is the important item into a good power system. I speak for my power system from 3000 - 11000W! You have no problems with good cells and right handling from Panasonic, Sanyo and Sony, you must only spent a little more money.
-I prefer to use no bad Chinese BMS. The pros called this Battery Murder System. All this cheap stuff makes good corepacks like mine bad. All my corepacks or the single cells into 0,003V. When you use the best cells from the market it is no problem with this balancing issue. For example the new Sony 18650V4 high current cells are into 0,003V, with range from 3,0 to 4,2V. I have never seen so good cells. The older Sony V, VT or VT-C are also very good but these new cells are great. But every core pack had little drift and for this issue I prefer so use a modeller charger like Graupner, Hyperion, Icharger or TP 1220 and so on. I charge from time to time with a RC-Charger. Every weekend or month are enough, for balancing and see the real datas and trend from different packs and so on. You can also use a good BMS from Germany or so but these BMS are more expensive then a good charger and you have a limit with your charge and discharge current. For example the new Sony are good for +4C charging current and I test now approx. 42A charging current into my 8P, (8 x 2,100mAh: 16,8Ah!) corepack and I have only 30 min. charging time. My thinking is to buy the best cells because this is the important item into a good power system. I speak for my power system from 3000 - 11000W! You have no problems with good cells and right handling from Panasonic, Sanyo and Sony, you must only spent a little more money.
ecross said:
long enough to know that cycle and calendar life depending on:
- charge voltage and current
- discharge voltage and current
- storage temperature
This info will some members here help to longer be happy with their expensive Li-Batterys.
madin88 said:
Hi madin88,
many thanks for your warnings, and certainly your warning will help new LiIon-User.
How many cycles do you have now with your great Sony V4 18650 cells? I have now over 100 cycles with my Sony 18650V4 and I will report the results later for interested battery user.
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