Hydrogen-powered drone makes first flight

Kingfish

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Boeing’s hydrogen-powered drone makes first flight

[youtube]bdUfzftGNQk[/youtube]

A drone with a giant belly full of liquid hydrogen designed to fly for four days without refueling completed its first test flight, Boeing announced on Monday.

The autonomous Phantom Eye took off from Edwards Air Force Base in California and spent 28 minutes aloft, reaching an altitude of 4,080 feet.

...The fuselage carries twin fuel tanks, which are filled with liquid hydrogen. Combustion produces only water, making the plane “about as green as it can get when it is flying,” Mallow notes.

Still a combustive process, though one that creates water as the end result.
One small step for man... KF
PS - Can you recognize the voice talent in the video? I'm pretty sure that's Lydia in Skyrim. :wink:
 
How much days would it take for Skynet to exterminate all living things on earthy?
 
Oh, the humanity.
 
A tiny baby hindenburg.
 
The shame with hydrogen is they crack the Carbon off Methane to produce it.

It can be made with electricity through a low efficiency electrolysis process,but its rarely done in practice.
 
liveforphysics said:
The shame with hydrogen is they crack the Carbon off Methane to produce it.

It can be made with electricity through a low efficiency electrolysis process,but its rarely done in practice.

That's the most screwed up part about hydrogen. The fossil fuel industry can market it as the clean fuel of tomorrow... meanwhile you are making this continent into swiss cheese by fracking it. Then you're most likely using coal power electricity to convert it into hydrogen.. all while losing major amounts of energy in the process.

There's a "long tailpipe" argument about methane-derived hydrogen that makes coal fired electric power look pretty damn good in comparison..

Electrolysis to produce hydrogen ends up giving you a major net energy loss at a high price per unit of power, as far as i have read.. ends up being double the price of natural gas derived hydrogen.
 
neptronix said:
Electrolysis to produce hydrogen ends up giving you a major net energy loss at a high price per unit of power, as far as i have read.. ends up being double the price of natural gas derived hydrogen.

That is the problem for wide acceptance. The only viable alternative is a very high temperature reactor followed by electrolysis cycle that DOE played with a few years back... don't know if I want to be next door to it however. Note that I am not nuclear phobic, as I spent my graduate study years in accelerator and research reactor vaults...
 
TylerDurden said:
Kingfish said:
Still a combustive process, though one that creates water as the end result.
Oh, the humidity.
:lol:

Hmmm, maybe it should produce/deploy ozone too; plenty of it at ground-level.

Electrolysis: Why frack around when we could use solar to complete the energy cycle?

~KF
 
LNG woulda been a better choice. higher energy density, higher cryogenic storage temp and universal access and facilities.

the danish navy uses cryogenic oxygen storage in their diesel electric subs to allow the use of a sterling heat engine for recharging while submerged.
 
dnmun said:
LNG woulda been a better choice. higher energy density, higher cryogenic storage temp and universal access and facilities.

the danish navy uses cryogenic oxygen storage in their diesel electric subs to allow the use of a sterling heat engine for recharging while submerged.

In this application, liquid hydrogen is a better choice with over 3 times the energy per unit mass of LNG.
 
how many moles of hydrogen and how many moles of CH4 fit in the same container?

how much energy is released by combustion of CH4 to CO2 and 2 H2O vs combustion of H2 to H2O only.
 
dnmun said:
how many moles of hydrogen and how many moles of CH4 fit in the same container?

how much energy is released by combustion of CH4 to CO2 and 2 H2O vs combustion of H2 to H2O only.

Off hand i dont know, and cant be bothered googling it either ! ...
....but i am willing to bet that someone involved in this project has already done those sums .. :wink:
 
dnmun said:
how many moles of hydrogen and how many moles of CH4 fit in the same container?

how much energy is released by combustion of CH4 to CO2 and 2 H2O vs combustion of H2 to H2O only.

For high speed travel, it is frontal area that matters most. It doesn't matter, to some extent, how large the tank is, but how much frontal area it projects. Google "energy density of liquified hydrogen vs. LNG". There is a reason the space shuttle flies (flew) on liquid hydrogen and solid boosters and it has nothing to do with how "green" they might or might not have been.

LNG is a fuel source, but hydrogen does not exist as an element in any appreciable amount. You can gouge the earth for methane but you have to create hydrogen from another source of energy. Hydrogen is only as "green" as the technology used to create it. Creating hydrogen from reforming natural gas will always create CO2, so that process is as "green" as the CO2 it creates. It does not involve an appreciable use of coal-created electricity; it is fueled by the methane. Hydrogen created by electrolysis is not a cost-effective way to create it, although that point is not universally agreed on. You can read technical journal articles all day and still come away confused on what is the "greenest" technology for fueling transportation. At this point, all articles involve a good deal of speculation about future technologies. So anyone who tells you they have "the answer" to future transportation is full of it, in my opinion. You can always find another, equally competent, expert that disagrees with you. Not enough is known yet. There are several possible technologies but none is unanimously the clear winner. Then you get industries with a "dog in the fight" to chime in and the opinions really start flying. My advice; keep an open mind and seriously pursue multiple technologies. It is a known fact that we will deplete the reserves of petroleum to the point where recovery will be too expensive to pursue for general transportation needs. What is not known is when; it is a moving target. There is no transportation silver bullet, in the air, land, or sea. Unless you want to walk, bike, or sail everywhere (actually, that sounds good to me!)

EDIT: moles per volume of liquid H2 is around 0.034 mol/cm3, for LNG it is around 0.028 mol/cm3, if I calculated correctly. So liquid H2 has a slightly higher molar density. The volumetric energy density of liquid hydrogen is about 8.5 MJ/l and for LNG it is around 21 MJ/l. Since the molecular weight of hydrogen is so much smaller and the molar density is about the same, the energy mass density is high. So, energy per unit volume, LNG wins. Energy per unit mass, hydrogen wins. When you are flying, it is all about beating gravity and drag, so a light fuel in a tank with a low frontal area is the result. If you are driving a car, the volume of the car matters more, so burning hydrogen is not such a great idea. Use a fuel cell, however, and you are in a different part of the map (no max. efficiency of a heat engine business)
 
pdf said:
...There is no transportation silver bullet, in the air, land, or sea. Unless you want to walk, bike, or sail everywhere (actually, that sounds good to me!)
Me too! 8)

It’s unfortunate that we’ll have to spend some carbon-coin to create or bring to fruition green-sources of energy. Using solar to supply power for hydrogen production is indeed inefficient, however there are advances in the queue that can improve solar by 5X, and at the other end are advances in cleaving Hydrogen more effectively, so it’s a only matter of time before Hydrogen is available at the consumer level. Maybe 5 or 10 years. I’m holding my breath now on the EV recharge stations; there’s been really positive and encouraging progress in the last year. We’re finally at the cusp of being able to make a public difference, and doubling the advancement, the mindset each year. :)

Optimistic, KF
 
Germany is already sourcing 50 bleeping percent of their mid day energy needs from solar!

At the rate they r going they will have excess on some days

These are the days you squiRrel away your nuts (make store hydrogen)
Weekends holidays big factory out of comission day etc

Ineffiency doesnt matter when energy is infinite

http://www.technologyreview.com/news/427360/hydrogen-storage-could-be-key-to-germanys-energy/

Right now we have a ridiculous situation where excess wind power is not even fed to the grid!
 
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