I can't tell

[ZeroEm]

Have you ever been in a rip tide. Noticed something was wrong but was not sure until it was obvious bad.
Well I feel that way now. Noticed the Federal government has called out the military to stop protest against ICE abuse of people.
Is this normal, why do I feel like it is much bigger. Is it that the Government moved military into the United States to used them to control people. Is everything ok this time until the National Guard gets help from the US Army or will that be ok also. I just don't know. It does not feel Good. San Antonio has a new Mayor and it's not the one that Washington spent millions on or The Texas Govern hand picked to lead this town. Will the Nation guard show up here to put down this disloyalty.
Not sure, just don't like where we are at.

 

[lnanek]

Will be kind of nice if a certain CEO who paid voters a million dollars a day for a month in a swing state gets deported, though. That's not democracy. Guy was giving Nazi salutes in public toward the end and I hear he treats his trans kid horribly as well.

 

[ZeroEm]

Will be kind of nice if a certain CEO who paid voters a million dollars a day for a month in a swing state gets deported, though. That's not democracy. Guy was giving Nazi salutes in public toward the end and I hear he treats his trans kid horribly as well.

What bothers me the most! They are running amok and openly talking about how stoned/high they were as an excuse for how they are acting. Yet they seem to be above the law. That CEO has been a US citizen for around 20 years. Don't think we should be deporting people because we are mad at them.

 

[lnanek]

He also founded a company while on a student visa where he claimed he'd attend a school he didn't. I know plenty of people with legitimate investor visas who were eligible. It's not tough. Especially for someone who bragged about his Dad owning a diamond mine. He could have dropped some money into startups easily and been here legally instead of cheating the country.

 

[neptronix]

Have you ever been in a rip tide. Noticed something was wrong but was not sure until it was obvious bad.
Well I feel that way now. Noticed the Federal government has called out the military to stop protest against ICE abuse of people.

This is a good question.

You should remember that this govt pulls out this trick any time it's sufficiently mad.
Most governments do this, and in the USA, most presidents have signed off on such actions.

Occupy wall street happened under Obama and he started giving the police military grade equipment. Later in his term, he decided that was a bad idea. Now, the police don't have as many tanks and heavy weapons to intimidate citizens with. So the feds call the military out to intimidate citizens instead, like old times.

There are many accounts of military grade hardware being used on citizens. I filmed a number of these events because in my 20's, i had this foolish impression that people cared about their government acting in a fascist way. To my surprise, zero of the liberal people in my circles cared about how our president then was doing the exact things they had just got done screaming at Bush for.

Seeing these things scarred me for life and made me question my political affiliations, and the nature of the system. Which was quite the rabbit hole.

There was a witch hunt on terrorists at the time too. This was used to justify the federal government spying on people. We even killed an American citizen with a drone at the time. and in news segments like below, they attempted to cook up support for these kinds of actions.



Older people will remember events like the Kent State shootings... and what happened during Vietnam protests.

But.. our government has always been like this, under various leaderships.
The unwritten rule is that speech is free until you make the current administration sufficiently angry.

But yeah, zero of this is new.

 

[Chalo]

But yeah, zero of this is new.

The scope and scale and lawlessness of it is unprecedented in our lifetimes, though. Looks like it was cribbed right out of the National Socialist playbook from 1930s Germany.

I could compare it to the antidemocratic power play of USA PATRIOT Act in 2001, but this is more audacious and far more unconstitutional. I hope it ends with the most historically traditional consequences for the perpetrators.

Notionally democratic government is supposed to get better over time, and it usually has. We've come a long way in the last 100 years, with the biggest regressions occurring in the last 25.

 

[neptronix]

Japanese Americans who grew up under FDR would strongly disagree with that.
People who were mass deported under Obama would also strongly disagree with that. ( Obama's record on this looks like Trump's )
People who fled being bombed by our military for over a century would also disagree with that.

USA govt has a pretty big rap sheet, both past and present, so i'll stop here.

It's not hard to find some example of both parties taking the same exact actions to similar degrees.
I'm definitely not saying one party is worse than the other. I don't support either.

I'm just saying that none of this is new or unheard of.


What really sucks is that people who support the administration turn a blind eye to the evildoings of it.
That reminds me more of nazi germany than any aspect.
It's not the government acting in a sociopathic or psychopathic way that jilts me. That's normal. Look at any history book
It's when my fellow citizens start acting or thinking in the same way government does.
Because citizens outnumber government by something like 10000:1, add or subtract a few zeros.
In the USA, we are a battleground of public opinion more than any other place. So if most citizens disagree with the furher, he's usually out.

Thank the founding fathers for term limits.

As of current, Orange man's popularity is waning and i would bet some cold hard cash that team red is going to get clobbered in the midterms. That would follow a strong historical pattern, so actually.. i feel bad making that bet, i don't want to steal anyone's money.
The system will return to stasis, like it has for the last couple centuries.

My prediction is that we're in for 2 years until the pendulum moves much closer to middle.

 

[Chalo]

Japanese Americans who grew up under FDR would strongly disagree with that.

That was outside our lifetimes, as I specified. Same with honkies' worst transgressions against people of color. Same with the worst abuses of working people organizing in their own interest.

People who were mass deported under Obama would also strongly disagree with that. ( Obama's record on this looks like Trump's )

I'd be surprised if the numerical rates were comparable, but I'm open to data.

Obama didn't take long to prove to me that voting for him once was a serious mistake, but he wasn't a baby Twitler.

I'm definitely not saying one party is worse than the other. I don't support either.

You don't have to support either one to recognize that one is much, much worse for everybody than the other. Both-sidesism is a fallacy that only serves the worst villains.

Look into what the USA govt has done in the past, you will find that it has quite the rap sheet!

I'm the offspring of a South American immigrant. I am well aware of how bad white American men are, now and always.

 

[marty]

Kent State shootings...

 

[ZeroEm]

Thanks Guy's, don't feel as lost and confused. Sometimes you wonder is it just me or do other's feel like "what is going on here".
One thing I have learned is most of the time you think you understand things but you really don't.

I enjoy Chalo's being on this site and respect his point of View and like hearing from him as I will never see things like he does. Being a white man and all, lol. neptronix thought we were worlds apart but not so.

The biggest eye opener to me in the last 15yrs is my Uncle. I grew up here in south Texas and thought he was a hard core Democrate, AC man in the pipefitters union (middleclass), leader in the Baptist Church, enjoyed children and helped everyone.

I am older now and see things differently. My Uncle does not seem like the same person remembered. Not trying to be focused on him but it more about me and my understanding of things. 15yrs ago in a 3-5yr span he's wife (like my second mother) died of cancer and his oldest son (like my brother) year younger than me pass away in his sleep. Then his younger brother dies of cancer. This left my Uncle alone so we spent more time together and was getting to know him better. Figured out he did not agree with his family. His dead son's only daughter was Gay, so he would not have anything to do with her so she moved away. His only daughter's son married a black Girl so he does not anything to do with him but his daughter still keeps in contact with him. He does not have anything to do with my younger brother who married a Spanish girl from New Mexico and their son married a black girl.

This is not the man who I wanted to be like growing up. But yet he remarries a Spanish women 10yrs his younger from his Church and dissolves his and dead wife's will and takes back everything he had given his children. I'm like what the F@$@.

I was feeling confused before the last election and now i'm looking around and thinking what happened to the world I was living in?

Started working at 15 cleaning stalls and moving Hay, 16 doing fast food (Sonic) and 17 went to work in the Oil Fields for 17yrs. Now they want to cut my SSI.

 

[Grautuefel]

The discussions from others in my office (in Australia), are that travelling to the US is absolutely off the books, even before these riots. People are more willing to travel adjacent a war zone (poland) that roll the dice with whatever weirdness will happen in the US.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

Noticed the Federal government has called out the military

No.

Trump did, and perhaps some people that tagged along on his coat-tails thinking they can push their own agendas (he did not instigate everything that is happening now, although there is synergy). Perhaps many citizens actually applaud this and back it, but the Federal government did not do this.

You can't fix a problem by aiming at the wrong target.

I read that during the "Great Depression" (1929 - 1940 something) unemployment reached about 25%. This very roughly means that 75% of the population found ways to survive, and were willing for the system to continue.

About 50% of the population voted for Trump, or voted for the policies they hoped would be put in place, even if that wasn't a policy that he mentioned. Before you object, I agree this isn't so dissimilar to other votes - that's not my point.

My point is that when half the people abandon the system, the system can break down. That would be the problem.

Mold doesn't muscle into a clean, dry environment and decide to take over - it only grows where conditions welcome it.

Democracy means you get what the majority want, or at least will allow because they think they will get what they want. Democracy does not mean good wins. I say that is a mistaken idea.

 

[neptronix]

Democracy means you get what the majority want, or at least will allow because they think they will get what they want. Democracy does not mean good wins. I say that is a mistaken idea.

Our founding fathers agreed with you on that and made us a federal republic.
( we don't actually select our leadership - we pick between two 'lesser evils', not what we actually want. And sometimes electors ( the people who actually make the votes ) disagree and decide to elect someone else. )

 

[Hillhater]

And here i was thinking we were trying to keep Politics out of this forum ?
But, you must see hat this situation is a direct consequence of the previous administration s policy on immigration and border control, and the clear mandate subsequently given to the current administration to enforce Federal immigration laws.
Maybe Some are comfortable living in a society with open border policies and no obeyance to Federal law, but that is not a sustainable situation or one that most would accept.

 

[offGridDownUnder]

And here i was thinking we were trying to keep Politics out of this forum ?
But, you must see hat this situation is a direct consequence of the previous administration s policy on immigration and border control, and the clear mandate subsequently given to the current administration to enforce Federal immigration laws.
Maybe Some are comfortable living in a society with open border policies and no obeyance to Federal law, but that is not a sustainable situation or one that most would accept.

This is the "Off Topic Discussions" forum, as opposed to the forum where the questions about the effects of tariffs on ebike purchases is posted.

 

[99t4]

About 50% of the population voted for Trump

No. Don't fall for that lazy error. Nowhere near 50%.

32% of eligible voters voted for Trump, 31% voted for Harris. 36% did not vote.

If you want to consider percentages of the entire population (instead of just eligible voters) those numbers will be even much smaller.

 

[Hillhater]

This is the "Off Topic Discussions" forum, as opposed to the forum where the questions about the effects of tariffs on ebike purchases is posted.

Yea..but Nah !
..even on this “off topic” forum , there have been multiple instances where moderators have threatened to close threads when they start to turn political.

 

[ZeroEm]

Yea..but Nah !
..even on this “off topic” forum , there have been multiple instances where moderators have threatened to close threads when they start to turn political.

Hillhater, not trying to start arguments and don't want one. i'm interested in hearing what you think but not fight about it. Was feeling like i'm was alone in thinking this just does not feel right in the USA. I listened to "States Rights" for the last 20-30yrs and now the federal government here is taking over states.

I'm sure this thread would get shut down is anyone or people get nasty. Don't want to discuss Political parties or anything about that.

Ok here is one thing. My mother has lost her eye sight this last year. She has been telling me the last two months she does not hear cars driving up and down the street anymore. Have been telling her people have moved away from the V8's with loud exhaust to V6's that are quite. She has a point, don't see the traffic, not sure why.

 

[ZeroEm]

And here i was thinking we were trying to keep Politics out of this forum ?
But, you must see hat this situation is a direct consequence of the previous administration s policy on immigration and border control, and the clear mandate subsequently given to the current administration to enforce Federal immigration laws.
Maybe Some are comfortable living in a society with open border policies and no obeyance to Federal law, but that is not a sustainable situation or one that most would accept.

See this is the problem here, you are trying to argue here. The US immigration problem is it really a problem or something to cause conflict. If it's such a big problem why is the House and Senate not on this right now. Is the current administration and congress fixing it or focused on something else like tax breaks.
I agree with most people in the USA we want strong borders, don't think that is what is happening. Looks like more conflict to me.

 

[neptronix]

Yea..but Nah !
..even on this “off topic” forum , there have been multiple instances where moderators have threatened to close threads when they start to turn political.

The spice level on this one is pretty low. let's continue.

 

[Chalo]

I listened to "States Rights" for the last 20-30yrs

That's code for "we should have slaves if we want". If you interpret it that way, then the actions that accompany the slogan make more sense.

 

[neptronix]

I spoke too soon.

 

[Chalo]

I think dispassionate but factual information is difficult to categorize as a problem.

States' rights - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[neptronix]

I strongly disagree with you and don't appreciate you injecting your extremist opinions into a thread that's been surprisingly well behaved so far.

I felt like relaxing our politics rule for a second there based on the good behavior until that post.

 

[ZeroEm]

Well I learned something and did not know, but it makes sense. Always took it that States were more separate than joined as a whole. I want to believe is that the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. If that make sense to everyone. Did not start the thread to have political end fighting. Have been trying to accept that the election was fair and this is what USA wants.

Don't like using the word America for the United States. USA is only around a 1/4 of the Americas. Just want to know if everyone felt as lost as I did. that all.