I received a 1500 dollar grant to build an ebike. Advice re

[MikeFairbanks]

The local utility company that provides our county with electricity awarded me a $1500 grant to build an electric bicycle. The catch?

1. It will be a student-built project that is teacher-led. I also have a dad who is a mechanical or electrical engineer that wants to help. He builds race cars as a hobby, and seems to know a lot about these things.

2. I will be doing a cost/benefit analysis comparing my car commute to the bike commute. All gasoline costs (plus carbon footprint) will be strictly monitored along with how much electricity is used (I will be using a monitor that plugs into the wall and that the bike charger plugs into in order to read how much electricity is fed to the bike).

3. I will commute 4.5 miles each way to work with approximately 1 mile of it uphill, one mile down hill and two miles flat. The upward climb is probably a total of 200-300 feet on the combined three hills.

4. I am six feet tall and weigh 200 pounds. I need to lose about 20 and this project will also measure my BMI, etc.

5. It's a seven-month project in which I commute as normal (car) for one month, recording all data, and then I'll ride for six months on the electric bike.

6. I'm leaning heavily toward an adult tricycle in order to haul books and such (I'm a teacher), and to provide a stable platform for student testing, etc. Also, the tricycle can be used by the school when the project is finished (as it will be the property of the school).

I've seen many electric tricylces online, including this one, which seems pretty good: http://www.amazon.com/Currie-Technologies-Tricruiser-Electric-Tricycle/dp/B001PH7RVM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=sporting-goods&qid=1288479746&sr=1-1

I've also considered buying a tricycle separately and installing a front hub motor, most likely a Crystalite.

MOST IMPORTANTLY: The tricycle needs to be relatively easy to construct and very much needs to be successful. The point of the study is to essentially prove that commuting by electric vehicle is cheaper and better for the environment than driving a car. Plus, the utility company is kind of hoping for that result.

What do I get out of it? A fun experiment and an interesting way to get to work. I'll be cold, but since I live in the Atlanta area, snow and ice are extremely rare and only pose a problem 1-3 days out of the winter. On those days I'll drive my car.

Any advice on where to start would be most welcome. Thank you.

Mike

 

[jmygann]

start with this .....

http://www.terratrike.com/rover.php

add this ...

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_nc.php

 

[Rassy]

JG, I agree the Rover would be a good start, but they come with an internal gear hub, so would not lend thenselves to a rear hub motor.

However, as a platform for a mid drive, the Rover would be great.

Mike, if you need to carry more stuff, you could always use a basic BOB style trailer.

Good luck with your project.

 

[spinningmagnets]

What is your top-speed desired, and total range needed before charging? Does the study allow opportunity charging at work/school to top off the battery pack? If yes, the pack can be smaller and cheaper.

 

[Lessss]

Actually I think you should start (or at least end) with something that can haul cargo. Or at least as much cargo that can fit into a typical car trunk and back seat. How bout a trike with and expandable cargo area. So the question is are you going to design something that you would want, or something that would benefit the largest swath of the general public. Don't use a regular bike seat though, use something comfortable.

 

[DAND214]

I kinda like jmygann's suggestion. Problem you are short on batteries$$$.
Like the motor choice the most but tha trike looks to have a internal rear gear hub. Which would mean no gears to shift if you went with that model.
The Currie Technologies iZIP you listed wouldn't be much fun, but useful. 15mph is rather slow but that would be fast for that style trike. it would keep you under the cost limit but would take all the fun out of doing it yourself.
What type of roads or paths that you are riding is another concern. Tadpole trikes are more stable than the other type. Do you ride a bike now on a regular bases? You might want a regular 2 wheel bike which would be determend by the route taken.
If you are interested in the items suggested you might try calling Justin and ask what he could do for you as it's a scholl project. Also ask the bike manufacture, IT NEVER HURTS to ask.
It sounds like fun project so you need to make it fun for you to do and to be safe.
Here is a link to an upright trike on ES
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22093&hilit=uncle+ron
As spinningmagnets asks range and charging also makes choices easier if they were here.
Dan

 

[AussieJester]

How well equipped is the schools manual arts facility? i.e do they have metal work class? If
you want to get the students involved in all aspects of the bike have them design and build the frame?..
Rather than the trike, there is also the option of something with an extended rear end and a 'stokey monkey' setup-->

Trust me, after building 2 trikes i can tell you they suck ass to ride in comparison to a two wheeler
might as well just drive a car and those tadpoles listed above, you get to look at the top of cars wheels as they speed
by, i cringe when i see them and think of riding one on busy streets with some of the blonde bimbos texting on their phones
while behind the wheel..

Best of luck anywayz...

KiM

 

[jmygann]

some rover mods from Utah trikes ...

They say an elec assist is coming ... I suppose one could do a non hub motor with internal gear rear hub or a hub motor with freewheel ??

http://www.utahtrikes.com/RECENTTRIKE-superrover.html

http://www.utahtrikes.com/RECENTTRIKE-TerraTrike_Rover_8DL.html

this would take the hub motor with freewheel ...

or for more cargo ....

 

[Starson]

You might want to go to this current thread as a way to get a feel for a practical home-made etrike.

http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=22093

Gary

 

[DAND214]

I like Kim's idea on the students.
Also am always worried about being lower tha the cars.
That always worries me when I see a Lowrider in the bike lanes in Chicago. Don't see them till it's almost too late.
Build it!
Dan

 

[MikeFairbanks]

UPDATE:

I guess I forgot to mention an important fact:

My commute from work to home is entirely on dedicated alternate vehicle paths. These paths are for pedestrians, bike riders and golf carts, with a maximum speed limit of 20mph. The rules of the paths specifically allow electric bicycles. Again, the speed limit is 20mph.

The town where I live is Peachtree City, Georgia. Every neighborhood, school, business and industrial park is on the Cart Path System. Most of the vehicles are electric golf carts, and a few gas golf carts. There are a lot of bike riders and in the mornings and evenings a lot of walkers. The path system is very safe and in fifty years has only seen one fatality (a bike rider and a golf cart collided).

Everyone waves at each other and as one of our mayor said, "life is better at 19mph."

The cool thing is that we actually use our electric golf cart more than we use our minivan and car. My wife takes the kids to and from school everyday with the golf cart, and we use it to go to dinner and more. But I drive my car to work. I do this for two reasons. 1. The hills make me sweat like crazy when I ride my bike, so showing up to work sweating isn't fun. 2. It takes 30 minutes by bike, plus 15 to cool down, another 10 to change. Using an electric bike or trike will help significantly.

But the main point is to prove a point through the study, that electric vehicles are more efficient and economical than cars.

The route I ride to work and back is free of any automobiles, so it's very safe. And the golf carts that share the path are limited to 20mph and are very courteous to bike riders.

Check it out here; this is a map of our city (35,000 people) and its cart path system (highlighted in blue). You do have to cross a residential street once in a while, but all major roads and highways are bypassed with tunnels and bridges.

http://www.peachtree-city.org/documents/Information%20Technology/GIS/2009webmap.PDF

But I do need power. There are two hills I have to climb that are brutal (at least to me). We're not talking about San Francisco type of hills, but a couple would be a test on any electrical system.

 

[DAND214]

That looks great! Now it's up to you. No concerns on the safety.
Make your choice, build it or buy it. It won't be yours later and if you don't build it, so what.
Have fun and learn.
Dan

 

[liveforphysics]

Browse Craigslist for any steel frame hardtail mountain bike or CX bike with a good front brake. This shouldn't cost more than $200.
Buy a good quality robust rear wheel rack/pannier bag setup for it. $100

Call Justin at Ebikes.ca, and tell him you've got a little over a thousand bucks, and you want a rear hub/controller/throttle/battery/charger (likely a geared EZ or 9C, but go with what he recommends, he is extremely experienced and has tested and dyno'd all hub types and knows what has best efficiency and performance). Tell him you want a cycle analyst, as well.

He will get you set up with a package where all the parts will work well together for a solid chance at success on your first try.

 

[MikeFairbanks]

That's another recommendation for ebikes.ca that I've read. Sounds like a winner.

But as far as getting a bike on Craigslist, I've already decided to go with an adult-sized tricycle for many reasons:

1. stability. I don't need good handling in corners.

2. cargo

3. I already have a bike I enjoy riding.

The question then becomes (with the tricycle) what motor and power system, etc. to get. The trike will cost about 250-300, which leaves about 1200 for the motor, batteries, etc.

I also want to leave some in reserves for contingencies.

 

[jmygann]

Trust me, after building 2 trikes i can tell you they suck ass to ride in comparison to a two wheeler
might as well just drive a car and those tadpoles listed above, you get to look at the top of cars wheels as they speed
by, i cringe when i see them and think of riding one on busy streets with some of the blonde bimbos texting on their phones
while behind the wheel..

Best of luck anywayz...

KiM

the tadpole I tried had the most comfortable seat I have ever sat in

the Rover is the same eye height as a car ... not sure where you got your info

the seat height is the same as my car 18.5 in

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npSPP9Wrork&feature=related

[youtube]npSPP9Wrork&feature=related[/youtube]

 

[johnrobholmes]

Good suggestions in here. You could also pick up a kit from ebike-kit.com, they are in the US.

As for battery, do you care about the weight? You could get away with lead acid on the cheap, or get some ready to go lithiums for more moneys.


I want to ride around Peachtree. I have heard that it is about the best "golf cart" community around. The trails are visible on google maps even.

 

[liveforphysics]

I had to spend a month in Peachtree for work. I don't remember ever seeing an electric bike or golf-cart the whole time I was down there, but I do remember seeing the very wide sidewalks everywhere, and often very wide with a wide bit of grass on each side of the sidewalk/path as well.

Justin at ebike.ca = FTW

He actually does development (like the CA, etc), useful and unique testing (anyone else ever bothered to build a motor dyno?), and is so not money motivated.

That's a lot more than can be said for ebike-kit.com IMHO.

 

[RWP]

You might want to take a look at this tilting hauler trike:
http://www.onyacycles.com

Recently there was a write up in Make Magazine on unique cargo bikes - vol24.

I really like the eXtraCycle type bicycle...as a platform for an eBike variant. I keep looking hard at this type bike.

Good luck!
Roy

 

[dogman dan]

Cool ideas on the trike. But on a $1500 budget I might be doing this. Hardtail steel framed MTB, with a nice strong rack and two panniers. Then add Ebikekit front hub, and either the kit battery or a slightly larger lithium from a supplier like Pingbattery. Now if I had one of those nice trikes laying around the garage, or for sale cheap, that's another story.

I've been running this experiment for three years now. The first bike was a schwinn trike, Same frame as the ezip. but the poor handling etc led to a quick change to a two wheeler. I can carry just as much in panniers. I had a LOT of trouble with stuff bouncing out of the basket on the trike. My 29 mile round trip costs as follows. One ton truck $29, Subaru forester, $15. Ebike, $3. Every day I ride the bike, I get paid for an extra hour of work. The savings have now paid for a whole garage full of ebikes.

 

[liveforphysics]

Cool ideas on the trike. But on a $1500 budget I might be doing this. Hardtail steel framed MTB, with a nice strong rack and two panniers
-
I've been running this experiment for three years now. The first bike was a schwinn trike, Same frame as the ezip. but the poor handling etc led to a quick change to a two wheeler. I can carry just as much in panniers. I had a LOT of trouble with stuff bouncing out of the basket on the trike.

That's the voice of experience talking. Agree 100%

 

[MikeFairbanks]

I'm not against doing a bike. I thought a trike would be easier, more stable, and maybe more fun?

I have a lot of options if I use a bike instead of a tricycle. I own two bikes: a Trek Pure (which would work great) and an older (but works fine) steel Schwinn that came from Target years ago.

But for some reason, the trike seems to up the coolness factor (or maybe that's just how I feel today and after seeing Uncle Ron's video). I know that at 42 and six feet, 200 pounds I shouldn't think of a tricycle as cool, but I do.

Anyway, I'm in it to win it. The grant came through, the check is in the office at work, and the project officially begins tomorrow. For the month of November I drive to work as always, recording all the data on gasoline prices, usage, carbon, etc.

Then, by December 1st I need to have a completed electric bike built (the deadline isn't set in stone, but it's hoped I can keep it), and then I start the six-month commuting project. Winter will be a bit harsh, but since I live so far South snow and ice are not an issue. Last year was considered a heavy winter and we only have a total of about five days with any light ice on the roads.

And, again, I'll be using dedicated paths that don't mix with regular traffic. The paths are smooth, wide, and very safe.

 

[torker]

I can see wanting a trike. It seems they would be very relaxing not having to balance. Also what Dogman said about cargo bouncing out would be very real with two rear tires and no suspension. Too bad that tadpole trikes are too expensive for the project. Some of the more upright ones would be perfect with an extracycle type setup with saddlebags. hmm.. An upright 2 wheeler with a small trailer might be a good compromise. Both could be had on Craigslist or check out a local bikeshop to see if they will sponsor part of the project.

 

[jmygann]

Rover - $800

Motor (Mid drive-use dual freewheels)

Motor and controller -$380
http://superkids.stores.yahoo.net/15wabmcbr24m.html



batteries .... what ever you can afford

or

just buy this for $1500 delivered - ready to go
http://www.cyclone-tw.com/recumbent.htm

 

[MikeFairbanks]

The above trike is cool, but not my style. I don't want recumbent. I like the upright position a standard bike or adult tricycle provides. But that looks pretty darn cool.

 

[azisme]

There are several good places to buy hub motors and ebikes.ca is one of them, but there is only one Cycle Analyst (CA) and ebikes.ca makes them. This could be one of the most important pieces for your project. You can program the CA so the motor won't run over your 20mph speed limit and it can control how much amperage you are drawing from your batteries so you don't send them to an early grave. There is also a ton of statistics that it logs which will be quite educational for your students.

For budget reasons, I would recommend deciding on your motor package and batteries before you decide which bike/trike to purchase. You won't have $1,000 left over to throw on a bike. I do see that Schwinn has an adult trike for as low as $250.

My last suggestion is to go with lithium batteries. Their longevity is much greater than lead acid. The cool factor goes down when you start strapping on a mass of lead on your bike too. pingbattery.com is a trusted source for low cost lithium. I would think something like a 36v 15ah would serve your needs as long as you control the amperage draw with the CA. I would verify battery size needs with the more experienced ones on this board though.

Good luck on your project.