ICE candidates for hybrid motorcycle

Oh right by creston. My grandparents live in salmo!
 
barntechsolar said:
back in 2007 I set out to convert a motorcycle to electric. given the weight of agm batteries, I decided perhaps creating a Series Hybrid Electric conversion keeping the number of batteries to a minimum of 4 for 48 volts. the power plant has a 6.5 hp clone engine powering a 60 amp Chrysler alternator controlled by a custom built reg. charging voltage is 56 volts, amp max is 60. yes, the old style alternators will work at higher voltages. the motor is the brushed etek, controller is a curtis 1204 48 volt 225 amp. the frame is a 1987 LS 650 Suzuki Savage. this bike is BC registered and it had to be inspected. The insurance was based on the engine displacement which is 196cc

to date, this motorcycle is driven daily except for winter, and is been extremely reliable. it can be seen at this site, http://www.evalbum.com/2196

at present, I am working on another gen set for a electric conversion. Dead Batteries Are Not an Option. I have built around the old style big frame Ford alternator and a 13 hp clone engine.
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I havn't check this thread in a while, sorry about that, but this is an awesome project! It's great to hear you use it as much as you do! Kudos, keep us posted!

And I have to ask...What gas mileage are you getting.... :shock:
 
grindz145, this bike gets 100 kilometers per litre. the engine spins at 2400 rpm. the bike is driven daily from april 1st to october 31.
 
Haha!! That's amazing! ~230mpg for us stupid americans! Keep up the good work that's awesome. Is it a manual pull-start?

-Troy
 
yes, recoil start. the engine came from Princess Auto, and was $128.88. starts on second pull even after sitting the winter. still has the original spark plug.
 
barntechsolar said:
yes, recoil start. the engine came from Princess Auto, and was $128.88. starts on second pull even after sitting the winter. still has the original spark plug.
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That's awesome! Looks like a really cost effective project, and It probably paid for itself! Inspiring.
 
it is nice I fill the 11 litre gas tank once in June, top it off in October. I have had no problems except for a flat tire. the etek motor I bought in 2005 has proven to be reliable.
 
How often do you actually run the motor? Do you run it everytime you take it out or do you operate it in EV alot? (judging from the gasoline use probably not much:D)
 
I am blessed with hills, so the engine is run. the throttle is set engine rpm is 2400. in town cruising is on batteries only. I live in a rural setting, when entering onto a busy highway its comforting to know with genset running battery voltage is at 56v, accelerating to 104k is quick.
I have a good laugh when in town, engine is shut down, people look as this now silent motorcycle keeps on movin'. everywhere I go, this bike still draws a crowd.
 
barntechsolar said:
grindz145, this bike gets 100 kilometers per litre. the engine spins at 2400 rpm. the bike is driven daily from april 1st to october 31.
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do you have instrumentation to let us know what amps /wattage is used at various speeds ?
IE, .. 30, 40, 50 mph
And what limits your max speed ? power? gearing ? voltage ?

Thanks ...and happy Xmas ! 8)
 
Having seen the converted Suzuki, would this help with efficiency or increased electrical speed
http://archive.itee.uq.edu.au/~aupec/aupec04/papers/PaperID82.pdf and if so how hard would it be to build the suggested electrical componentry?
 
the only instrumentation is the speedo and the ammeter for the charging system. I may add a voltmeter later. I read the archived article and found it interesting. back in my younger days a converter was available to instal on your vehicles alternator. this would allow you to have up to 120 volts dc. another aftermarket converter turned your alternator into a welder. I being a drop out at grade 10 have prefered to learning hands on as the best teacher. of all the alternators I have experimented with, two have been very reliable for extracting 120 volts 1 Ford big frame 2 Chrysler 40 and 60 amp. the next step is to replace the internal 3 phase rectifire with an external 3 phase unit with a heat sink. Have a Nice Day
 
Just thought I'd pop this link in here (I found it whilst looking for something else), as it looks like a neat idea for a generator for small series hybrid arrangement:

http://www.torcman.de/faszination/praxis/jochen/honda-gx35_430-30.htm

One of these mounted on a rear rack would give you a pretty good range on an ebike.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy Harris said:
Just thought I'd pop this link in here (I found it whilst looking for something else), as it looks like a neat idea for a generator for small series hybrid arrangement:

http://www.torcman.de/faszination/praxis/jochen/honda-gx35_430-30.htm

One of these mounted on a rear rack would give you a pretty good range on an ebike.

Jeremy
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Awesome Jeremy thanks! Those small 4 stroke Honda motors are really incredibly light and efficient. I'm leaning toward the GXH50 still... 2HP aught to be enough for a motorcycle with a healthy amount of Iron Phosphate.
 
Jeremy Harris said:
Just thought I'd pop this link in here (I found it whilst looking for something else), as it looks like a neat idea for a generator for small series hybrid arrangement:

http://www.torcman.de/faszination/praxis/jochen/honda-gx35_430-30.htm

One of these mounted on a rear rack would give you a pretty good range on an ebike.

Jeremy
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Just the ticket, Jeremy. I am considering building a hybrid scooter, as I am frightened by the amount and the weight of lipo's for this task. Therefore this 22cc , or larger Honda 31cc 4 stroke - virtually same weight as the 25 with 1.1kW output and only 100g heavier. The Torcman generator is very elegant with the direct drive, but for the 60V output and more, it may need gearing up, to get the required voltage, or very low kV rated brushless motor. These ICE are not the most efficient at 340g/kWh fuel cons., but the genset can be perhaps made for under £200 at 4kg with the benefit of unlimited range. Does anyone have an experience in using the brushless motor as a generator/charger? My original thought for powering the scooter was 60V 40Ah pack, but with the genset perhaps half - 20Ah capacity would be OK.
Thanks for any suggestions.
otto
 
If you ran the generator at the motors torque peak, around 5500rpm, to get best BSFC, then for 60V you need a motor with a Kv of around 91, which is lower than any commercially available RC motors. However, if you separate the windings on an RC motor and re-wire them from delta to wye (star) you drop Kv by around 1.73. Given that you need a bit of voltage headroom for charging and to allow for voltage drops due to losses, I think a 170Kv motor re-wired to delta would be around ideal. Something like the Turnigy SK 6374 170Kv motor might do the job, although it does look harder than some to re-wire to wye.

My guess is that the average power drawn by the scooter might be around 600 to 800 watts, maybe less if riding around town, so you might get away with a smaller battery pack. The ratio of peak to average power for road vehicles tends to be around 5 to 1 or so, most cars only use around 10 to 18hp on average, for example, so I'd guess that an ICE scooter might be similar. If you want to emulate the performance of something like a 50cc scooter, that probably delivers around 3 to 4hp maximum, then that would support the estimate above of around 600 to 800 watts average power.

The challenge would be to build the control system to keep the engine delivering the right power. It should be possible to drive the throttle with something like an RC model servo, then control the servo using a microcontroller that senses battery state of charge and regulates the generator power accordingly. The control loop doesn't need to be very complex; just sensing battery pack voltage might be good enough. A BMS would be required to ensure that the battery charge/discharge was properly managed, but an ordinary one used for mains charging would work fine. If the BMS automatically reduces the charge current demand as the cells reach full charge, then the terminal voltage at the charge terminals should increase. Sensing this and using it to automatically reduce the ICE throttle should work OK as a control method. As soon as more current was pulled from the pack the pack voltage would reduce and the ICE would speed up to deliver the needed extra power.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy, thanks for your comments. Sorry, I have just read it now, after spending an afternoon actually riding the "stealth ebike". In the excitement I have started a new thread on Hybrid EGO scooter with genset. I did not want to sidetrack this thread, as they are quite diff. approaches. I will take your suggestion on selection of the brushless motor. Can you copy/paste your answer there?
otto
 
hi every one.
I am a newbie,
I want to build a hybrid bike here we have plenty of 100 - 150 cc motorbikes with 8.5 -13 bhp power.
my aim is to increase mileage by adding a small motor and a battery pack
motor / generator : an old truck dynamo ( pmdc 24 v)
battery pack : as small as possible for 5-6 mins of power bursts at the time of start and short bursts while changing gear, preferably lead acid( its cheap)
controller : maybe none, just a contactor.


this wud also add to the existing power.

please give your views
 
anand.ssukhi said:
hi every one.
I am a newbie,
I want to build a hybrid bike here we have plenty of 100 - 150 cc motorbikes with 8.5 -13 bhp power.
my aim is to increase mileage by adding a small motor and a battery pack
motor / generator : an old truck dynamo ( pmdc 24 v)
battery pack : as small as possible for 5-6 mins of power bursts at the time of start and short bursts while changing gear, preferably lead acid( its cheap)
controller : maybe none, just a contactor.


this wud also add to the existing power.

please give your views
Click to expand...

Unless this is going to be a hybrid sailboat, and you can put the lead in the Keel...stay away from lead :twisted: Trying to increase efficiency by first adding a ton of weight isn't going to get you anywhere.

So are you planning to build a series hybrid, that will drive the wheel, exclusively by another electric motor then?
 
Sorry for the delay, I had lot of other work going on...
here in India we have a whole range of 150 CC bikes having a power output ~ 15 hp and giving abt 45Km/L of gasoline.
Aim: to increase efficiency, of the whole bike
i.e increasing power with same mileage or increasing mileage with same power.
As it has been mentioned it is only 1/5 of the peak power that is required on a average basis.
my plan is engine -100 cc (2/3 of original) ~ 10hp
motor 5 KW ( alternator rated 28 V 100amp, converted to motor as 96 V, 60amps) which should be used only for acceleration i.e for 1-2 minutes avg/ 5 mins peak.
controller: working on it, just anything that converts dc to 3 ph ac with a little control over frequency, as major control would be attained by field weakening.
battery 96v 10Ah.
also I am planning to use the alternator to recharge the battery (regen)

questions:
WILL IT WORK????
what should be my expectations from regen ( my ride is mostly within town, many start stops)
 
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