ice sheet losses in Greenland and Antarctica reach new highs

found out that arkmundi is now banned for objecting to this insider corrupting and trashing our thread. nothing like corruption of the insiders to prove what a true republican you are.

anyway ran across this article from two weeks ago and is very interesting because he talks about the risks of dramatically floating the antartic ice sheet:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/07/20/the-worlds-most-famous-climate-scientist-just-outlined-an-alarming-scenario-for-our-planets-future/
 
dnmun said:
found out that arkmundi is now banned for objecting to this insider corrupting and trashing our thread. nothing like corruption of the insiders to prove what a true republican you are.
Click to expand...

That had zero to do with why he was banned.
Of course, he didn't tell you the story of what he did, did he?

PS, it is against the rules here to talk about moderation matters in public. Go talk to another admin via PM if you have a problem, or talk to me. Control of the situation with arkmundi was handed to another admin like a week ago.
 
Oh oh Florida. "Ground Zero for climate change" seen here (Miami Herald Editorial):
http://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/editorials/article29609719.html

... with a pic of Florida Governor Rick Scott (a reputed climate-change "denier"):
Fetch


(Oh. Sorry! Wrong pic! That's one of Danish King of England Canute. Sorry `bout that.)
 
http://traffic.outbrain.com/network/redir?p=12Coeo8ieoYeDlWqqhz6GU-UayjIjg45qMS9gVWkbTh3vu4sjpAlM9PrE2NmNqM7BUIYLK5NtZVU08YvXZojzBw3NOrYvH0hTD48bHsco_QppPHx0iAZg2SVUrO8PQWTQt3zPzMSg8G6yeYJ_v0wnOZdPY3jK_v5AUmcU_tDRCjHQ5uQ2mruUOMpBE8aDR5WCmtE1tnIH3D1ycXjDYoHDolWqFX4SsdLlZqLp7xpXecYjlk3w7amravvTmev-SwaYq0uTzVK6eOJb-m6Vag82GfqhUDGaazkDaQOrIC6JwUDPWX05Q0V1L5MZgWyJV2BFVfloUsDUdCTgiTXvHZWXEqDpdRYeBHS8D8sZtwu45RdkqCFKrXnX3_FR_AFlie6M3TrbAZ2-WFeSsfx107j_CleGWw_rjd6je7h72x0scOt20ZxSQzt1DLONYx3EaBPbr6xWyg0A-xMaAF_CQqS3auz9ZKFVAyBqhk0ly5Egg-ZF8p9drnyRA4RhGWncbystJVIIrfQOPe3ylGWUELAffGIats-h30exBEE2EVZKsM&c=186584aa&v=3

And away we go. A community in Oklahoma has 30% saying they don't believe the "Propaganda" about all that that global warming. 'Hai el, its all as been hot and dry am' dusty rounthese parts."

And no, you don't get to just dismiss them, you have to come up with better proof than "Dont it seem hotter'n usual to you?' Or 'Global warming is recommended by more wannabee experts than any other opinion.'
 
Data are not equal to opinions unless you're a willfully ignorant jackass.

We have lots of data to confirm a global warming trend, correlate it with rising atmospheric CO2 levels, and attach elevated CO2 levels to human activity.
 
Chalo said:
Data are not equal to opinions unless you're a willfully ignorant jackass.

We have lots of data to confirm a global warming trend, correlate it with rising atmospheric CO2 levels, and attach elevated CO2 levels to human activity.
Click to expand...
Melbourne had the coldest July in 20 years so nyer
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-records-coldest-july-since-1995/story-fni0fit3-1227465775369
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TheBeastie said:
Chalo said:
Data are not equal to opinions unless you're a willfully ignorant jackass.

We have lots of data to confirm a global warming trend, correlate it with rising atmospheric CO2 levels, and attach elevated CO2 levels to human activity.
Click to expand...
Melbourne had the coldest July in 20 years so nyer
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/melbourne-records-coldest-july-since-1995/story-fni0fit3-1227465775369
Click to expand...

Are you joking? Some city had its coldest month in 20 years? That's your evidence global warming isn't real?

Here are the average temperatures for June 2015. I couldn't get July data yet. Remember, blue spots don't mean that red doesn't exist.

TTHOK6T.gif


The combined average temperature over global land and ocean surfaces for June 2015 was the highest for June in the 136-year period of record, at 0.88°C (1.58°F) above the 20th century average of 15.5°C (59.9°F), surpassing the previous record set just one year ago by 0.12°C (0.22°F).

tWrYCO8.gif


XAh8nNx.jpg
 
In all seriousness guys, I respect your intelligence.
What do the pundits of Manmade Global Warming/Climate Change think about this presentation about Geoengineering? Or anyone for that matter.
[youtube]RD2lABk16qE[/youtube]

Personally I think it's very applicable- to varying potential degree.
I'm very curious of you're thoughts, but if you would prefer not to discuss, or discuss elseware, I can happily oblige.

Peace
 
Weather is an engine propelled by atmospheric heat.

More heat in the atmosphere means more severe weather-- both droughts and floods, both heat waves and ice storms. The best measure we have is the number of all-time record weather events that are being set.

Lately, there has been a lot more sea ice than usual. Climate change deniers had been using that as a point in their favor, but the reason behind the increase in sea ice has been the pronounced increase in cold fresh water inflows from the melting of polar ice caps. If you were only to pay attention to the sea ice, you'd think that it was getting colder. But it's not.
 
chalo, don't know if you are familiar with what is called the Ocean Conveyor that circulates the deep currents from off the underside of the antarctic ice sheets deep into the pacific trenches and rises up in the tropical pacific to feed all the marine life and drive the ocean currents in their long 25,000 year gyre through all of the oceans. it is what drives the gulf stream north past the coast of britanny and all the way up to the northern latitudes and keeps the ocean free of ice off the coast of norway and all the way to spitsbergen practically.

there is a large volume of fresh water that spills off of the greenland ice sheet and the gyre that drives the gulf stream north is dependent on what is called the 'haline gradient' that causes the cold saline water to sink off the coast of norway and course at the bottom of the atlantic the entire distance down along the coast of africa until it reaches the antarctic ice shelf again after rounding the cape.

the huge volumes of fresh water now pouring off the greenland ice cap are interfering , (diluting the salinity), with the salinity of the gulf stream as it passes and that is changing the dynamics of the gulf stream and it is expected to eventually fail to flow as far north and no longer carry the tropical gulf stream heat north to the coast of britanny and norway. then the north european coasts are expected to show the same weather patterns as inland over russia and the sea will then be ice bound in the winter even as the artic ice sheet is dropping.
 
Yeah, Britain is on the same latitude at Moscow - I'm not looking forward to winters in the future if the Gulf Stream is diverted :(
 
"From the Mississippi to the Ganges, river deltas are in major trouble"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...river-deltas-and-the-people-who-live-on-them/

Based on new report "Profiling risk and sustainability in coastal deltas of the world":
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/349/6248/638

(Editor's Summary
Deltas are growing centers of risk
Population growth, urbanization, and rising sea levels are placing populations living in delta regions under increased risk. The future resiliency and potential for adaptation by these populations depend on a number of socioeconomic and geophysical factors. Tessler et al. examined 48 deltas from around the globe to assess changes in regional vulnerability (see the Perspective by Temmerman). Some deltas in countries with a high gross domestic product will be initially more resilient to these changes, because they can perform expensive maintenance on infrastructure. However, short-term policies will become unsustainable if unaccompanied by long-term investments in all delta regions.)
:(
 
nutspecial said:
In all seriousness guys, I respect your intelligence.
What do the pundits of Manmade Global Warming/Climate Change think about this presentation about Geoengineering? Or anyone for that matter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD2lABk16qE
Personally I think it's very applicable- to varying potential degree.
I'm very curious of you're thoughts, but if you would prefer not to discuss, or discuss elseware, I can happily oblige.

Peace
Click to expand...
I watched that GeoEngineering vid and found it kind of amusing, especially the stuff about UV rays being so powerful that its stripping the bark off all the trees...If you can pool together enough people who believe that kind of stuff theres no telling how much money you could make off people like that, some how. Even if you just got their names and phonenumbers/emails and sold each name to professional Nigerian scammers for $1 each so they can get down to some real dirty work it would be worth your while.... It would be a very valuable list to have as you clearly got people willing to believe anything.

Actually I thought I could give them some good material on deliberate climate change actions by big governments and that would be the billion dollar Chinese garbage power plants they been building everywhere in China to dual solve their biggest problems of needing more electricity and practically drowning in their own garbage due to rising living standards of a billion people..
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidferris/2012/06/19/chinas-waste-to-power-plants-burn-more-coal-than-trash/
Also China considers these plant’s electrical output as renewable energy and thats why their kicking butt in the green energy stats that green groups like to use in their arguments against lack of western green energy action..
So there is a x2 bonus points of conspiracy theories that I think they missed in that documentary.

I think in some respects climate change can be a good thing, for example consider those extra large polar ice caps that have been forming lately... now the polar bears have more space to run around on...So who can argue against polar bears having more space to run around on so nyer

Also this global increase in changing weather patterns is just like weather patterns we get in spring time seasons which encourage new life activity.. The more weather activity you get the more life responds to it getting more of what life needs. The best examples of where little new life happens due to no change in activity are deserts (until they finally get some rain) or the most extreme example would be the moon, where absolutely nothing changes.
file.php
 
Rolling Stone magazine has an article this month and they talk about the ocean of meltwater flowing off the greenland ice cap and cooling the north atlantic just where they expected and it also mention the PDO pacific decadal oscillation and how it is now moving into full cycle.

i am of the opinion that the PDO is the reason for the extreme drought and high temps on the west coast and the blocking high because of the extremely hot north pacific which has forced the jet stream over the poles and pushing cold down onto the east coast. that is expected again next winter so prepare for more intense cold and snow. ice in hudson's bay is still heavy for this time of year too. for the same reason.

http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/the-point-of-no-return-climate-change-nightmares-are-already-here-20150805
 
TheBeastie said:
actually I thought I could give them some good material on deliberate climate change actions by big governments and that would be the billion dollar Chinese garbage power plants they been building everywhere in China to dual solve their biggest problems of needing more electricity and practically drowning in their own garbage due to rising living standards of a billion people..
http://www.forbes.com/sites/davidferris/2012/06/19/chinas-waste-to-power-plants-burn-more-coal-than-trash/
Also China considers these plant’s electrical output as renewable energy and thats why their kicking butt in the green energy stats that green groups like to use in their arguments against lack of western green energy action..
So there is a x2 bonus points of conspiracy theories that I think they missed in that documentary.
Click to expand...

My city has been burning coal + garbage since 1975. They are in the process of converting to Natural Gas due to government regulations on coal and projected cheaper NG, not to mention NG being easier to manage physically.

dnmun said:
chalo, don't know if you are familiar with what is called the Ocean Conveyor that circulates the deep currents from off the underside of the antarctic ice sheets deep into the pacific trenches and rises up in the tropical pacific to feed all the marine life and drive the ocean currents in their long 25,000 year gyre through all of the oceans. it is what drives the gulf stream north past the coast of britanny and all the way up to the northern latitudes and keeps the ocean free of ice off the coast of norway and all the way to spitsbergen practically.

there is a large volume of fresh water that spills off of the greenland ice sheet and the gyre that drives the gulf stream north is dependent on what is called the 'haline gradient' that causes the cold saline water to sink off the coast of norway and course at the bottom of the atlantic the entire distance down along the coast of africa until it reaches the antarctic ice shelf again after rounding the cape.

the huge volumes of fresh water now pouring off the greenland ice cap are interfering , (diluting the salinity), with the salinity of the gulf stream as it passes and that is changing the dynamics of the gulf stream and it is expected to eventually fail to flow as far north and no longer carry the tropical gulf stream heat north to the coast of britanny and norway. then the north european coasts are expected to show the same weather patterns as inland over russia and the sea will then be ice bound in the winter even as the artic ice sheet is dropping.
Click to expand...

Salinity of waters is an interesting variable. Here's a letter from a climate scientist who wrote a book about it:
http://naturalscience.com/ns/letters/ns_let32.html
 
Interesting. "Baffin Bay enclosed by growing ice sheets", this from that study from 2002.

More recently (from July this year):
http://www.ledgergazette.com/research-polar-bears-can-t-conserve-energy-during-fasting/7120/

"A 2010 study found that the southern Beaufort Sea continental shelf was free of ice about 101 days each year in 2001-2003, and adult female polar bear survival was high. It wasn’t the outcome some of the scientists on the team were hoping for."

"All of the lowest extents of summer sea ice have occurred in the last eight years"

Research-Polar-bears-can-t-co.jpg
 
Ratking said:
I found an interesting short clip on youtube. I wonder what people here thinks about it

[youtube]xhu3ESXvGR4[/youtube]
Click to expand...
LOL that lady just stood there and kept taking the beatings.
One thing I do like about that guy was his argument that we are 'terrifying children' which climate change doom talk does tend to be entail.
And I guess that is somewhat true.
The upside of course is that no matter little or how doomish climate change reality is all the talk is pushing us into making the planet a significantly cleaner and healthier place to live in.

Climate change has always been happening. Below is a great video about how they have found tropical palms fossils and other vegetation that could only exist in warm beach paradises we like to holiday in today in cold Tasmania which was once part of Antarctica. These fossils prove that climate change has always been happening and the earth still merrily moves on. Folks who don't care about how much the climate can change could argue that we could technically have 'more' green life existing in this world where its just ice now but of course the goal is to keep everything how it is now and one could only imagine what the rest of the world would look like if there was a tropical rain forest in Antarctica, I think most would argue it would be deserts or a hellish volcano riddled world of lava.

http://splash.abc.net.au/home#!/media/661374/tropical-palms-in-tassie-50-million-years-ago-
This video was part of the ABC science show Catalyst but I can't find the rest of it.
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/08/120801132339.htm

"The study published in the journal Nature shows that tropical vegetation, including palms and relatives of today’s tropical Baobab trees, was growing on the coast of Antarctica 52 million years ago. These results highlight the extreme contrast between modern and past climatic conditions on Antarctica and the extent of global warmth during periods of elevated atmospheric carbon dioxide levels."
 
as australia and tasmania migrated north on their plate the land connection between antarctica and tasmania was severed and the circumpolar southern gyre was finally able to develop. up until that point in time antarctica shared the warm weather of the adjacent australian land mass and there was no circumpolar weather pattern because the land bridge to tasmania and australia prevented the ocean to flow around the continent of antarctica as we know it today.

this is a constant weather pattern of wind and ocean current established then that now rules the southern ocean below 30o and that wind isolates antarctica from the weather north of the continent so over time antarctica has become more and more isolated from the weather of the more northern latitudes.

the ocean conveyor begins on the underside of the antarctic ice sheet that extends out into the southern ocean and as the new ice grows during the winter it excludes the salt from the newly forming ice and that increases the salinity of the water under the ice sheet so that cold saline water sinks because of gravity and flows down over prominent bottom topography and falls into the deep trenches of the pacific where it finds ways to penetrate the underlying rock and migrates down to the thermally active regions of the plate underneath the sea floor and then that water is heated by the magma and rises up out of the ocean floor through thermal vents.

the water is so saline that as it is heated it dissolves the minerals from the rocks in these deep crevices and then carries those minerals back up to the ocean through the thermal vents. they are called 'black smokers' because of the color of the water as it exits the vents. the temperature of the water is about 1200o C so the heated water rises rapidly in the water column and as it cools the minerals can precipitate out but most of them are diluted into the oceans and that is where the minerals come from in the oceans that feed all of the bioplankton that forms the bottom of the food chain.

over a period of about 8 million years the entire ocean volume follows this path into the deep cracks in the ocean and it is generally thought that life itself originated in these deep crevices in the ocean floor and that something like 60-80% of the ocean biomass exists there now in the rock as single celled organisms.

there was a young guy who lived across the street and did research on the genetic structure of the sulfur fixing bacteria which are considered the original life forms and he and i discussed how the DNA of the sulfur fixing bacteria is more primitive than the higher eutropic forms. really a great area of research to pursue in this era imo.

that young guy will have a chance to make new discoveries never imagined and the ability to hack the sulfur fixing genes into other microorganisms will create opportunities to extract minerals and oil from formations that are not available in any other way. he was at the med school of all places. OSHU.
 
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