Iovaykind's Novara Method 1.0 Build

[iovaykind]

Current State of Ebike

Current Weight: 57lbs without batteries
Top Speed Achieved: 42.6mph
Range: @25mph - 35 miles without pedaling (15ah 20s lipo)
Battery Pack: Varies between 5ah, 10ah, and 15ah worth of 20s lipo.

Intro
The equipment will be taken from my second ebike, which has been dismantled and scrapped for parts. Just couldn't give up full suspension going at 40mph.

Orders of business:
1. Install front fork (Suntour XCM V2 100mm) CHECK.
2. Battery box in triangle (10x 4s turnigy 5000mah for 20s2p) CHECK.
3. Controller mounting (and setting up features such as three speed switch and high voltage regen) CHECK.
4. Torque Arm
5. Disc brakes (rear caliper does not clear 160mm rotors for some reason right now) CHECK.
6. Beefier tires (CST Cyclops 2.4) CHECK.

 

[iovaykind]

August 25th 2011
What I'm starting with

Just bought this Novara Method 1.0 frame, and it came with seat post, headset, and RockShox Ario 2.2 Shock.

August 28th 2011
Controller Mounted

Held on via velcro and zip ties. Placed so that the rear swing arm can compress fully without hitting the controller. Enabled m2 (low power mod) and regen on generic controller. Sweet!

Battery brackets

Two of these brackets will be used to hold all the batteries inside the triangle. Right now, each one weighs about 600g. I'm hoping to drop them down to under 400g each, so only add 800g from brackets total, rather than 1200g. I'll do so by drilling many more holes into them, as they are extremely stiff right now and way too bulky.

August 29th 2011

Battery Mount Welded

Managed to drop each bar down almost 200g to through sanding slits into it (pain in the butt). Total weight of battery mount ~840g vs original ~1200g+

Primered and spray painted silver (though it won't be seen after the cover is made, which will also be painted this color to match the bike frame.

September 5 2011
Packs permanently paralleled

Now I can connect the 4mm bullets in series without extra wiring. I can also choose to bulk charge or charge packs 2x2 as I don't have to deal with andersons.

Battery Mounts completed

20s2p configuration complete, 83v hot off the charge, with 10ah worth of fun. After paralleling the packs, I've simply connected the 4mm bullet connectors together to create the 20s configuration. A battery cover is in the works after all the wiring gets done. Credits to metallover for the mounting bracket idea.

September 6 2011
Front Fork Installed

100mm of travel with preload adjustment. Yes the front wheels are 26" and the rear is 24". Combine that with wide tires in the front and skinny tires on the back and you see the huge difference in size. Need to find a really short stem to clamp onto the steerer tube rather than the current one. Got about 20mm to play with and right now the ghetto stem leaves room inside the tube without the star nut in place. Need recommendations for a short stem (I hear BMX stems are usually low profile and shorter). Also going to take the front fork off soon to repaint them the color of the frame.

September 7 2011
Battery Cover Mockup

Final cover will be made from abs plastic, paint matched to frame and secured with bolts on one side, and velcro for easy access on the other side. The cover doesn't "cover" the rear shock, because I'd like to be able to use the lockout function at any time.

September 10 2011
Today I got the chance to paint the front forks, install both front and rear brakes (still need cabling and brake lever for rear), wire up battery key switch, and install bottom bracket to the bike. I also got the time to wire up the throttle and ignition switch. The best part of the day has to be when I was testing regen and low power mod, a wire slipped and caused a short, blew a couple of fets.

September 15 2011
Got a lot done today! Installed pedals, chains, rear brakes, and cruise/low power/headlight switches. Took it for a spin at 11pm with 45 degree weather and 25mph winds, in the middle of september too o_0 AMAZING, simply amazing what difference there is between a real full suspension bike and a full suspension bike from walmart. Never going back.. just wow.

September 20 2011
Installed rear fenders. Got a threadless bike stem so now the handlebars don't sit at shoulder height haha The ride quality is great after I adjusted the air in the rear shock. Bike is close to completion!

September 23 2011
Battery Cover Mold

This is the basic shape of my cover, which I will put over the bike and use as a mold for a fiberglass (I'm hoping) cover. If not, it will be made from a single sheet of acrylic or lexan (suggestions?) and heat bent into shape. Pros of fiberglass is shinier and easier to create odd shapes, cons is time and effort spent for a cover. Pros of acrylic/lexan is less time, relatively easy to bend, cons is hard to cut into odd shapes and won't be as rigid if I want to keep it less than or around 1/8th" thick.

Here's how it looks on the bike as a mockup (ignoring the piece of tape on the cardboard, and imagining it as silver, I think it would look pretty nice):

September 26 2011
Cycle Analyst!

Haven't hooked it up yet but it's the next thing I'm doing!

September 30 2011
Battery Cover Done

Painted it silver after this picture. Looks pretty cool like this, though I wouldn't wanna ride around looking like I've got a bomb strapped to my bike lol

October 18 2011
Ready to test
Bike is all set up ready to run. Controller now mounted in triangle, wires tidied up. Decided to scrap the battery in triangle idea. Last thing to do is wait for the battery backpack and then I'm off to go test the bike. Still need torque arms though, which should've been first order of business but has been pushed to last, even behind cst cyclops tires which are in the mail on the way.

Plug for battery is run down the upper tube under the rear seat for the final look of the bike to be stealth.

October 21 2011
First ride
I used the bike today with my regular backpack holding the batteries. Running only 74v, and this thing is just beautiful to ride. The ride is so comfortable, and I have the power when I need it, yet I only travel maybe 25mph tops on these local roads. People in cars keep looking at me wondering what the heck is going on

Here's what my handlebars look like, minimalist approach:

And also a side profile shot.

My last thing that I have to do is torque arms, its riding fine without it right now, but I'd like to be able to full throttle starting from rest without worrying about getting sent to the ER I'd also like to put a seat post rear rack so that I don't have to always have the batteries on my back. Putting 5ah on there will not be too heavy (though I doubt it couldn't hold 10ah or even 15ah worth of lipo). This will help with easy getting on and off the bike. Having the battery strapped to your back and getting on the bike is one hard thing to do, especially with this being a large frame and getting over the top tube is difficult as it is.

Videos and photos in next post!

 

[iovaykind]

Reserved for riding test photos/videos

 

[rui_fujino]

hey, why dont you use 8x 5s battery to make your 20s2p setup? that should be much less soldering and easier wire harness... :wink:
the frame looks great! but you might not have enough space to fit in all the batteries??

 

[bobale]

4s are cheaper . Anyway, what PSU do you use to bulk charge them?

 

[rui_fujino]

try this one!
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__9174__Turnigy_5000mAh_5S_20C_Lipo_Pack.html
its much cheaper than any other deals u can get with 20C ones! :wink:

 

[iovaykind]

I have enough space to fit all the batteries inside the triangle if I put them side to side, meaning that the battery cover will be about 95mm wide, which is okay by me. I may even be able to fit the controller above the rear shock.

The PSU I got is a 350w meanwell copy. It runs my 50w charger (80w on the way so it'll be at least a bit quicker). Looking into bulk charging but haven't figured it out yet, so balance charging slowly will be the way to go for awhile now. It's not a daily commuter so I'm not worried about charging quickly.

The 4s hardcase packs pack a better wh/$ deal than anything on hobbyking (disregarding C ratings) They've got me to 35mph on 3.75v/cell so now that they're fully charged to 4.16v/cell, I'm sure I'll be surpassing 40mph when I want to.

 

[iovaykind]

In quite a rut right now. I'm not sure if 10 4s packs will fit into the frame, the space is VERY tight and with all the wiring I'm not sure it would fit. Right now take a look at this picture:

six 4s packs fit quite nicely and I still have room to add other bits and pieces such as battery switch and dc-dc converter. I'd be able to run 24s on the generic controller (wesnewell does it even though our controllers only have 100v caps) but then I'd only have 5ah. I'd really like to keep 20s2p for 10ah if possible but I fear the rear swing arm is getting in the way especially when the shock compresses.

What would YOU do in a situation like this?

 

[rui_fujino]

i would change the position of the controller to create more space for the battery.
controller can be fitted easily anywhere on the bike but battery is different story... :wink:

 

[iovaykind]

Good point, there's a second water bottle cage under the bottom tube that I could relocate it to. The only annoying thing would be the exposed wiring, guess some heat shrink would fix that problem, or maybe even a fiberglass housing on the bottom to route the wires.

 

[rui_fujino]

Good point, there's a second water bottle cage under the bottom tube that I could relocate it to. The only annoying thing would be the exposed wiring, guess some heat shrink would fix that problem, or maybe even a fiberglass housing on the bottom to route the wires.

well i hope that's gonna help you with your battery setup! looking forward to see what u make out of it!
one other thing, i wouldnt fiberglass the controller...that would heat up too much... i would fit the battery in first, then think of location for the controller cos that way you might actually get some space for the controller... :wink:

 

[iovaykind]

I was gonna do something like keyne's DH build, where he had the fiberglass in front of the controller and the battery box just looked really great. Too bad I just checked and all the pictures are gone :/ I know not to cover up the controller (though it has never even become warm on me, I guess I drive conservatively )

 

[doc007]

Maybe you can mount the controller off the back using a seat post rack. This can also double as a rear fender and a spot to mount a red rear light to make you more visible to cars.

Also note that the rear rack may require a little more support (plenty of threads on that) at the seat post attachment area to handle the weight of the controller and whatever else you have back there.

Lastly, it looks like the rear shock on your bike will only compress in a linear fashion, meaning that it wont swing forward or backward bc of the pivot point below the seatpost area. This means you might be able to squeeze more batteries closer to the shock without fear of them hitting under max compression. But dont take my word for it... test it all out with some battery mock-ups or something before you commit.

 

[iovaykind]

I've actually relocated the controller to under the down tube, where there's screws for a secondwater bottle holder. Looks like a great spot for it to be in. I'm going to try and leave this bike rear rack free if possible. The last four batteries will be horizontal under the top tube, and the space between the four and six batteries in the triangle will be for connecting each of the five paralleled batteries in series. I'll be in the process of permanently paralling the packs together so I get 10ah, and after that I'll tape them together and mount it into the frame. More updates next week!

 

[rui_fujino]

The last four batteries will be horizontal under the top tube, and the space between the four and six batteries in the triangle will be for connecting each of the five paralleled batteries in series.

yea that sounds great to me :wink:
only concern is the water getting onto the controller wirings.. but im sure your plan will work out!

BEST of Luck!

 

[iovaykind]

My plan is to heat shrink the wiring anywhere that water may be able to get in. In terms of the controller itself, its super waterproof.. couldn't even find a place where it wasn't, which is great because of splashes of water that may hit it because its so low to the ground. The only thing I will need to worry about is the wiring that's outside the controller, in which case when all is said and done, it'll get wrapped and heat shrunk to keep it as waterproof as possible.

 

[iovaykind]

Are DH cranksets different than regular cranksets? I tried fitting a crankset (2 actually, one was single speed the other 3 speed) into the bike and the both things the chainring hits the chainstay. Seems the chainrings are too large both both were about 30 teeth roughly. I was hoping I could fit at least a 44t there but maybe I'm missing some valuable information here

 

[deecanio]

crank arms are pretty much a much, either square taper or splined in the main.
How are you planning to run the crankset? single or 3 speed?
if the chainrings are hitting the swingarm you do have options, you can put a wider bottom bracket in, or you can remove the inner chainring etc.
IIRC the norm for an MTB is a triple up front, normally 22/32/42. single speed cranks normally have a 32/42 up front - what are you planning on doing for gears?
i've found the best hub setup is a freewheel/casette (allowing you to choose which rear sprocket on the cluster and then fixing the rear deraileur in that position) and then a triple up front, this gives you three speeds that pretty much cover the range of the motor.
whats your thoughts on how you will use gears with the hub?

D

 

[iovaykind]

I'd like a single speed up front, and make use of the 5 speed in the rear. Something between 30-50t would be great (I'm pretty sure even a 52t-11t combo won't help much when I'm going 40mph, so I'd rather use a lower ratio to help with take offs). Where can I find wider bottom bracket axles?

If I decide to go three speed up the front, any 22/32/42t crankset should work?

 

[deecanio]

what are the ratios of the 5 speed?
bottom bracket axels come in all sorts of widths, you could have a browse at www.chainreactioncycles.com for some examples.
im not sure what a 52/11 combo would assist you to speed wise but im fairly sure it would let you assist to around 35 ish at least - you can work that out using the sheldon brown website.
from real world experience i can tell you i used to have a 15t single freewheel on the back and 32/42/52 at the front, in 32/15 it felt like pedaling a bmx, good for if your electrics break down and able to assist to around 15mph, 42/15 was good to around 19mph and 52/15 good for 24mph ish.
I found that using the three up front is by far a better setup for two reasons, firstly the front 3 speed shifter mounts on the left side of the bars so you can change gear and moderate throttle at the same time very easily, secondly if your hub has a decent acceleration 3 gears is easy to match for cadence/synergy than crashing through 7 or 9 - this may not be too bad for you as you have a 5 speed rear but i would guess that the shifter is on the right side of the bars?
anyway, you need to post up a pic of the cranks to be sure, but i dont see any reason you couldnt do what you want to with what you have already.
lets take the triple you have, is it 22/32/42? - i had this and there is no reason you can't remove the 22 altogetherif the inner ring is catching the frame, you can also put the 42 where the 32 is and have a bash ring on the outside if you want to giving you a 42 single up front.
I've messed about with bottom brackets and triple fronts all ends up and believe me you can get most things to work exactly how you want, the only thing you need to watch out for is gear indexing, that said after LOTS of twatting about im still running a road crank triple 32/42/52 up front and im still using the standard Kona 3 speed fron shifter to select that and it works fine.
Is it the inner chainring that catches on the frame? If so you can space out using a wider bottom bracket, or remove rings to suit and give you the designed chainline.

D

 

[iovaykind]

All I know about the 5 speed is that the lowest is 14t. Ideally I'd like what you have: at least 32t and 52t at the front, but I really doubt it'd fit without a much wider axle. I tried to space it all the way to the right so even though its unbalanced i'd be able to put the crank on. Still not clearing though.

 

[deecanio]

i need to see some pics of the issue, all i can think is a change of bottom bracket if the crankset is normal, the norm BB IIRC is 110mm, they do up to 128mm standard and if you really need i bought a 150mm so dont be disheartened - post up a pic of the BB and the crank sets you have and i'll have a look, but for sure we can work it out :wink:


D

 

[iovaykind]

My BB axle is just short of 120mm.

150mm would be great, but I'm sure it wouldn't be cheap. I've got about 3" to work with before it hits the chainstay:

I was trying to put this on but it obviously does not clear:

I'd actually like to ideally keep it single speed in the front, with 52t or 60t (I have a SS 52t on my commuter bike and it works perfect).. I'm sure it would have to be spaced out extremely far to achieve that though, but any ideas on how I could accomplish that?

 

[deecanio]

wider BB would achieve it, i have some spare, for some reason i cant see the images on my work machine, ill try on my phone - is the BB square taper or splined?

D

 

[iovaykind]

It's square tapered. Thanks for taking the time to help me out! I really appreciate it