Is Ping still the best battery?

[Coen]

Hi to all ES people!

Im from Finland and just ordered my first ebike kit from Conhismotor. Its a 48V 1000W kit and they say its a new version of somekind.

But lets get to the point. Ive teared my hair out finding good and reasonably priced 48V 20Ah battery and keep coming back to Ping.

But the price annoyes me (im poor, what can i say ), so im turning to You, is there something out like Ping, only a bit cheaper?

It has to b mostly turn key, cause my knowing about electricity is that electricity blue and it hurts 8) .

So, can you help me to disaide, is Ping worth it, or has something better come up?

P.S. Sorry for the "engrish", havent studied english in twenty years.

P.P.S If i choose to go with Ping, is the 5Ah charger worth the cost?

 

[gilfort]

Coen, you will need the 48V 30AH V2.5 LiFePO4 Battery Pack for your 1000w motor. Ping battery are good but they are only 2c. You need more ampere for acceleration or for going uphill. 30Ah ping battery can give you at least 2300 amp momentary, its not much but it is Ok. The battery is 1000$

 

[kentlim26]

Your Conhismotor can work with many types of lifepo4 battery. 2c will work. the peak watts is 1546watts.(max) no matter how hard i bang on my throttle... it is still below 1599watts . (Amper peak) i see from my turingy meter. you won't be regret this kit, after all. they will give you a free charger..( please test it with a test multimeter, it may not work!!) that charger is free, have to test it. Maybe it will work you. my Kit has run more then 2000km+ for 4months. The troque is much better then Cyclone kit 500watts, for speed and troque. but lose to 900watts in term for PICK up speed. however for long range, conhismotor is superior. you can go slow say less then 30km/h , you can get a very good range from a pack of battery 48v 20hr. i got 95km range, using 710.3watts. they gave you a 30a controller, so it is really a 30a controller.. maybe it can go abit higher but won't hit 31a. going slow speed, you can get as low 6.65wh/ km and as high as 15.44wh/ km. Up2 you to choose. if you really buying 48v 20a from Ping battery, if that battery can really give you 900watts... you range can easily 75km per charged. however, do not deep discharged for a new pack battery.

the weight of this motor is very similar to a x5304. My friend had one this x5304, i felt the weight by hand was not much different from my hub motor. x5304, needs higher C battery, so it will certainly cost more and needs a higher quality battery.. 5c or 10c. this Conhis motor can easily pick up speed 30km/h quckily under few secs. Your conhis throttle is not water proof. (so be careful if you are running in the heavy downpour rain.) suggestion cover them with a plastic.. it works for me perfertly.

My conhismotor version, top speed on flat is around 52km/h, so it has a good troque too. they are not seem to be inferior at all. My 2000km+ travel... (all over singapore) http://www.flickr.com/photos/kentlim26 as for the slop/ hill it still can go up at a speed 35Km/h !! better then Cyclone kit 500watts is only 19km/h... the sound of chain biting gearing is really hard !! Grrhh (sound like damaging the gears hard)!!! Conhismotor goes up hill... - sweeter !!

Not to say, Conhismotor is cheaper brand. i have to say Things Got to "matching" in anyway for a ebike builder. my 2nd build , a folding ebike. No suspension fork... i felt so dangerous with the speed 45km/h, any time, i can get myself hurt badly. so the matching is out. ! the cyclone 1500watts motor + controller is also out. the controller seem cannot handle that huge motor. Lack of good matching. and if you use low end lifepo4 to run that cyclone 1500watts, it will kill the battery life span for sure. So they must match to run it properly+ beautiful build is also important. some how is a kind of pride of a sucessful ebike builder.

kentlim

 

[AussieJester]

Have you considered lithium Polymer, alot of us have switched to them
now, the are much more stable battery than lipos of few years ago.
Heap of information in this battery section if you want to know more

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176


KiM

 

[999zip999]

Yes A.j. I would a pack plug and play O.k. with chargher one kit please 48v20ah 5C O.k. no 20c.the price under 700,00usd.

 

[Coen]

Have you considered lithium Polymer, alot of us have switched to them
now,..
KiM

Thanks guys for answering me!

LiPo sounds fine, but how hard is it to make a set? Cause im no electrician, and the battery maintenance sound pretty tricky itself.

So do LiPos need BMS? And is there "how to make LiPo pack for dummies" kind of step by step guide somewhere here?

Really the charge rate isnt so important to me, but price, power, packsize (=weight) combo is.

Im not really a cyclist, i was just bored and decided "what the heck, lets make a ebike".
So i ordered the motor kit, but it needs energy to move, so now here i am. Just trying to clarify where i stand about ebikes.

LiPos sound interesting but im a bit affraid, that is too technical aproach to me? Or am i wrong?

 

[olaf-lampe]

Have you considered lithium Polymer, alot of us have switched to them
now, the are much more stable battery than lipos of few years ago.
Heap of information in this battery section if you want to know more

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=9176


KiM

I would've recommended LiPos too, but there is no plug&play pack available AFAIK. Using Cell-log as BMS-replacement is no option for battery-newbies.
I have two ping packs and both can handle the 1600W I ask from it. But in the last 2.5 years I had to replace 6 cells, because of broken battery tabs.
If you decide to buy ping or other duc-tape packs, make sure you have a bulletproof battery frame!

-Olaf

 

[dogman dan]

Lipo may be a good choice for you, depending on what your pattern of use is. It's not that hard to deal with, even I could learn it. Look for threads with battery noob in the title, for some of my questions answered as I learned.

A ping 48v 15 ah battery would be very likely to be plenty of size for your motor. 1500 watts peak is a bit high, but few will be using that for long. It should drop to 1000 or less pretty quick. A bigger ping would be advised if you had tons of stops and starts, or long steep hills. That should shave a bit off the price, compared to a 48v 20 ah ping. The ping would be great if you need the following. Reliable charging without you watching it like while you work or sleep, and for long commutes or tours where a larger pack is needed just for the range.

But if your usual ride is shorter, then lipo has huge appeal since a mere 5 ah pack of 30c cells can provide all the power your motor needs. No way around it, 48v 5 ah is much cheaper than 48v 20 ah. 14s is a good voltage for typical 48v controllers. 12s is a nice voltage halfway between 36v and 48. So just 2 6s 5ah lipo batteries, some cheap low voltage warnings, a charger and a 12v power supply could get you started. Should be able to get started well under $250, and just add more packs for range later. Charging with lipo is not as easy or convenient though, so larger packs might be more hassle than a ping.

 

[AussieJester]

I would've recommended LiPos too, but there is no plug&play pack available AFAIK.

Not quite with GGoodrum parallel adapter boards, battery medic/booster its pretty close just need to group
positive and negatives together and pop a connector on them.

KiM

 

[Coen]

Dogman, that sounds very tempting cause i dont know yet, how much i will use my kit in the future.

Kentlim really likes LiFePo4, but the driving season through the year is a "bit" different in Singapore than in Finland.

In the winter -25 celsius isnt a rarity here, so limitations from the weather (and will to drive) exists.

Have to start checking the noob threads.

And thx for Doctorbass, your youtube video assured me to order Turnigy power analyzer and its on its way as we speak.
Im just little annoyed cause the postal charge, Turnigy costs me $29.92 but delivery costs $28.29 so the shipping doubles the cost at $58.21. Packet costs are higher from Germany, than from China
It comes from Germany, so no added taxes though (vat in finland is 23% + customs fee).

 

[mwkeefer]

Wait, Ping was at one time "The best battery?"
-Mike

 

[Coen]

Wait, Ping was at one time "The best battery?"
-Mike

Well, i didnt find any other "label" that comes even close as customer reviews.

Like i posted, if you have a better solution for my problem, please tell me.

And for Aussie Jester, i looked your lipo pictures (awesome set!), it doesent seem very turn key.

 

[999zip999]

OK,OK, Ping is great 48v20ah is a safe bet where is it going, under the top bar get a slim line it's 16in. long and not to wide for your knees or on the sides of a rack for mountain bike, ask ping to make the wires longer between the split. Coen you also put it on the top of the rear rack with standard block form ping, maybe get the 5amp. charger and you will need some 4mm gold plated conectors, cheap from hobbie city or a set of 35amp. anderson connectors pos. and neg. get a few extras for many reasons. Good to have a comoly steel frame for the twist. 10 years old and cheap.plus if you put on a 48t front spocket you can hit it with a hammer to tune it up to fit the bigger spocket. So you can peddle with it. P.S. Yes good to peddle start. you will love so much you will have a smile for a week.

 

[Coen]

.. or on the sides of a rack for mountain bike, ask ping to make the wires longer between the split... Yes good to peddle start...

That is what i have been thinking, spiliting the pack (by the pack maker) in two halfs and putting them in saddlebags. It would leave space in the back rack and lower the gravity point.

And a little offtopic, i just read a finnish article about ebike boom in China. It says there are estimated 120 000 000 (=yes million) ebikes in China roads. Quite a number, most of wich runs with sla's and "high-end" models uses li-ion.
Typical Chinese ebike can achieve speeds up to 35 km and a range up to 50 km. There are over 2000 companys, who manufactures ebikes. Basic ebike (=complete with battery) costs about 200€ and the same bike in europe costs up to 900 euros.

If you can read Finnish, here is the link http://www.co2-raportti.fi/index.php?page=ilmastouutisia&news_id=2034

And very very offtopic, there was another news about China, according the article there are 65 000 000 (=yes, million once again) empty apartments waiting for buyers to come. Kinda big bubble i would say.

But from the first article, you can sense that ES needs for ebike are pretty high compared to a typical Chinese ebike.

 

[neptronix]

http://translate.google.com/translate?js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=1&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.co2-raportti.fi%2Findex.php%3Fpage%3Dilmastouutisia%26news_id%3D2034&sl=fi&tl=en

There ya go

20km/h is about 12.5mph, LOL... that would suck. We're over here complaining about not being able to go 30mph.

 

[dogman dan]

Ping still is the best battery for some situations. Not as compact as lipo, but still pretty compact so you can carry enough for long range. And you can let it charge unattended at work, or out on the road with a cheap sla charger. Other lifepo4 like headways take up a lot of space compared to a ping. But if you need real amps, then ping is not it.

 

[999zip999]

Coen, What I like to think and hear is when China had the Olympics they around drove around with guns and trucks picking up all two stokes on site... This was to help clean the air, you will fallow the party line. Now go buy e-bike. That is the reason we are enjoying a battery rebellion. My spelling sucks.

 

[kentlim26]

BMS battery. Just arrival today to my home. From foshan to singapore, 2dayS only. from the invoice she wrote date 12 August 2010, 14th Auguest, this morning i received my items. She is abit tricky in bluffing me eariler dates.. I don't understand. Is there needed to bluff me? The packing is average, luckily my new lifepo4 battery 48v 12a / a cells is 38140, 10c output capable. however my bms is max peak 40a. so this will work well with my Conhismotor 30A controller. The cost is USD461. (with shipping). This pack of battery is supposed to give me 576watts. however i only need 400watts from this pack or 33km. i think this battery will work. The weight of this battery is 6.7KG only, and is half the weight of my previous lifepo4 48v 20hr is 13.2kg. that vpower battery of 48v 20hr is actually only 710.3watts.. ( this pack vpower is somehow 200watts less watts).

i paid the bms battery on 26th July 2010. and they send it 12aug. actually that lady intend to send me on 18th august, ... i told her.. that was too long, i have waited very long already. so those who are buying from BMSbattery, have to ask her to send eariler. other then that, the battery is very excellent build, much better then vpower anytime. Huge photos http://www.flickr.com/photos/kentlim26

i ask them to build square, so it can easily fit in my box. battery size 16.5cm x 15-16cm x 15-16cm. i didn't gone into lipo, but one day i will do, once i got some spare cash coming in.

best regards
kentlim

 

[999zip999]

I like the price did it come with a chargher ? Will they make a custom shape ? Let us know of customer support ? Did they answer e-mail after you send the money ? O.K. So how much better is your new battery ? Faster, hills ? 48v12ah 10c, I want ONE.

 

[kentlim26]

Hi everyone,

i just back home, Test 2 on this cell 38140s. This 12hr cells of 10c each, This is very impressive. the troque is obviously comes stronger then my vpower battery. it can easily stay at my top speed 51km/h... (top speed.... all the way),there is a bit drop then going abit of slop, or reduce my throttle. USD461.00 with shipping to singapore. however that lady in Bmsbattery takes sOOO long time to process its shipping. she needs 16days to send that battery. i didn't ask for a battery charger, because my vpower charger of 5Amper is doing very well.. since last year ago !! when i run my Vpower charger, i will put one more extra fan to blow, just incase if it heats up. it safer better then worry. As you know those fans build inside the charger - I think it cannot perform its cooling fast. SO i add one... to blow that heat away effectively.. The weight 48v 12a lifepo4 (cells 38140S) is 6.7KG... (tested with my digital weight machine) this pack of battery is lighter then my SLA batteries. 17.1KG. (very heavy broke my rack Once, Topeak branded one SGD58.00 very expensive) i cannot use this SLA batteries, now the total current is 80watts. (2months only) Please avoid all SLA batteries, if you want for a happy ride. my new lifepo4 48v 12a, is 2.5times lighter.. ha ha..

yes, the pickup speed has improved very obviously. (compare to the normal cells vpower 1-2 c) only. Vpower battery will takes long time to reach 50km/h, BMSbattery cells 38140s... will takes alot few seconds LESSER" to clock 50km/h... i havent do a test.. i had no time to count. JUSt a while.. im already there 50km/h. That is really fast. i got to try that again.. so i can get a ideal... How fast it can troque to give me 40km/h ? HOW many seconds..

yes. you can custom build your own shape battery. they email me back, after i have sent the money by paypal. this lifepo4 is a 10c, so don't worry. it sure can deliever at least 3c, however im just looking for 1.5c + only. however they will ask you about your BMS .. What is the peak current do you want ? so you got to get ready to answer them... 50amper peak ? or 60amper peak. ( The high amper peak, i think it cost more ) my amper peak is only 40amper peak, so is only 1920watts. And can contineous 30amper current.. = 1500watts (AP) having to stay at 1500watts..= that is my top speed... all the way. that is why i got my 2nd pack lifepo4..

My BMS in my this lifepo4 is only support up to 2C only. so my cells can give 10c, but the bms will control to output power only 2c. it cannot work more then 1920watts motor/ or controller. the bms will blow.. ( i think so ). as long everything can match properly.. i will run all the way without any worry. Customer support , i think they don't have. as long your motor specification must match with the BMS out put current. if you bms is looking for 3000watts Output, how many amper is that ? 62.5 amper. So the peak must be 65amper peak for the bMS. everything is good, they will also ask you, ? Do you use anderson plugs, etc. however i prefer something even better, Round rings connectors. (sorry i don't know the name) but i have photos.

my total is 16cells only, very less complicated connection.. (simple actually), unlike vpower.. HUDREDS of small cells.. im very worry for that. less connection= less problems. that small pack battery i can easily slot in cushion all the sides.. so going for hard rocky ride. the battery won't hurts.

cheers
kentlim

 

[dogman dan]

10c at that price is pretty good! Here's the cell I think. Is it a headway? http://www.bmsbattery.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1_10_11&products_id=89

It doesn't really fit all the criteria I feel a ping can be best at, like compactness for carrying 20-30 ah for longer rides. But if 12 ah is all you need, it shouldn't be that bulky and heavy.

 

[kentlim26]

Hi dogman,

i also don't know if is a headway or not. my test 3rd ride. Good, it was alot obvious troque was improved 30% at least. comparing my last battery vpower and SLA. i don't know if this is a recommedable products to buy or not, due to their attitude for their posting forward/ sending their items is not really good. The delay can be a week+ few more days for their Sending their products by ems/ ups. " please avoid DHL, if possible for lifepo4" they will not immediately very quickly. i don't know what they are waiting..

My friend lifepo4 battery Got stuck with DHL, it takes afew more days to ship to him. he got the cells and bms from bmsbattery. (singapore). if i have lifepo4 48v, for 30hr. = lots of watts 1440watts will give me 120km. it's for touring EBike. now ping is selling 48v 30hr USD958.

When i bought this lifepo4 48v 12hr. i wanted to feel lighter weight for ebike. 6.7kg.. (not too bad) range 33km, speed 40km/h ~ 51km/h can achieved/
when i tried my friend cammy battery lifepo4 (48v 12hr) , i can achieve riding range 35Km + no problem. that was my thoughts, i must get one more pack lifepo4 48v 12a. i felt it was so handy to carry in and out.

For those who like to have a range 40km (max) - this pack of 48v 12a , can do that task. 1000watts ~ 1575watts (max) all the way. it must take not more then 1.6C. my friend is also interested, he might consider to purchase this pack.

cheers
kentlim

 

[Coen]

So, thank you all for answering my questions.

It seems that battery technology is going back to cylindar battery packs, but i tought that a Ping pack is "proven" quality and decided to buy a 48V 20ah set.

Ping told me, that he has more powerfull sets (aka V 3.0) but cause the (high)price, they are out of stock. Apparently they are made only for request?

Price was 598$ + 160$ shipping to Finland.

And my Conhismotor set is arrived and taken to the customs, i have to pick it up next week.

Then i get to assemble it in my Insera mountain bike.

 

[snowranger]

Protect that Ping pack very very well. You don't want to have to unwrap the duct tape and see what's inside.

 

[Coen]

Protect that Ping pack very very well. You don't want to have to unwrap the duct tape and see what's inside.

I'll try my best.