Just took a header at 20mph: All's Well (nearly)

Reid Welch

Reid Welch

1 MW
Joined
Nov 18, 2006
Messages
2,031
Location
Miami, Florida
I'm OK. Bloody face, minor road rash, bike bent a bit. Front hub twisted its wires around the dropout (why???).
There's no brake there, no major torque. Torque did not fail the dropout; it was the aerial landing.
A new fork, if wanted, will cost about $20 if that. The eZee is fine, wheel not bent, just broken wires.

All I did was stupid: circling an empty traffic circle, pedaling.
The tilt of the bike was acute. Tires gripping perfectly.
But a pedal touched the pavement. I pole vaulted.

I did not get hurt bad. The hub wiring is wrapped around the axle? How did that happen?

Forensic pictures tomorrow. Right now I'm just thinking that I was very lucky, and the bike is not really spoiled,
though a hall wire or two is certainly broken. At least I'm not badly hurt, just rashed.

Georgie just got his comeuppance.... more later. Ouch.
Bike noobs learn fast if they go too fast and corner too tight with pedals not at horizontal.
 
Horizontal hell, Reid! Keep the inside pedal up! I hope you are OK!
otherDoc
 
docnjoj said:
Horizontal hell, Reid! Keep the inside pedal up! I hope you are OK!
otherDoc
Click to expand...
Yes, it was entirely my error. I post this not for sympathy but to possibly remind other beginners of what not to do:

Don't repeat my accident. Face looks OK, just bleeding a bit. Brain? Messed up per usual. It's how I learn:
always the HARD way. Soccer Mom in SUV kindly stopped to be sure I was going to be OK. "No problem, thanks!"
What a nice lady...most folks today ignore accidents and go their merry way.

I will play my theme song below and feel better fast. It always works:
 
Glad you're OK Reid! When they cut my hair off in boot camp, the scars looked like a freeway map! I wear a helmet now. You can tell I'm right-handed, because when I was young, I put a lot of scars on my left hand!
 
Learning the hard way only comes by stretching the envelope.
Make sure the frame is unbent before investing in a replacement fork.
How would a helmet have helped?
Glad you're okay.
 
Well, my helmet got bashed and cracked when I got flipped at 20 mph. I broke a bunch of ribs, but I can only imagine, (or maybe not) what would have happened if I didnt wear my helmet!
otherDoc
 
Reid, glad to hear you didn't hurt yourself worse.
Front hub twisted its wires around the dropout (why???).
Click to expand...
Working from what you said, my guess is the throttle got tweaked, either by you when you left the bike, or else when the bike hit the ground. Then the wheel got stopped by the bent forks and the torque spun the axle out. Don't see any other way the wires could get wrapped around the axle.

Reminds me I need to get a torque arm on my sons old tandem that I installed a BD36 and 36V SLA on. Just preventing an after the fact spin out makes a torque arm worth it.
 
Post Mortem pictures tomorrow. It's not that bad.
I'll let you experts explain why the (no torque arm) hub wound up in the dropouts.

Dissection and decision if a new fork is wanted.
Torque arms are now in my future; such a strange accident, a sort of pole vault.
I almost always wear my BMX helmet. This time I did not. I did not hit my head somehow;
only scraped my face a little bit. And wound those wires. Motor still ran, for a minute afterwards,
till I turned the wheel and broke hall sensor wires that were strained tight by the wind-up.
It will be fixed. The bike is tougher than me for sure. And smarter, too! :lol:
 
Not good and e-zee, Ried.

A white suv drove out of it's driveway last week and completely cut me off. I had to break hard, and when I wasn't sure I'd stop in time, I put'er down for a slide. It's great that I didn't slide under, 'cause after causing my crash, they simply pulled away, leaving me on the road. Scuffed bars, torn seat, no personal damage...not so bad.

I'm rather proud of myself. I'm getting better at crashing.
 
Glad you're well Reid,
Always try to take into account the position of the pedal, not only in roundabouts, also curves in when the power is in the hand and not on the foot pedal is easy to forget.
 
Mtb's can spoil you. I don't have the balls to lean far enough to pedal strike on my commuter, and I DO lean way over. I'm an old school biker, motorcyclist, etc with 35 years of riding experience. But the bike is so tall, I have never struck a pedal, and now habitually pedal through turns, and keep throttle on, to stick down both tires. Great feeling in corners with both wheels pulling!

As soon as I get on the cruiser, I start grinding my heel, and striking the pedal if I don't watch out. That bike used to be a trike, and is extra low.

There seems to be a voodoo thing about may for me, for sure. 3 years ago, my dog bit the crap out of a neighbors kid. Cost me $3000 cash. 2 years ago, the waterbottle in the front forks, sill can't work like I used to, and earn about $100 a week less than last year. This year, the other day, I backed my truck into a car that parked behind me while dropping a thou on some repairs to my subaru. Bunch of cars parked around me after I went in to drop off some axles, and then I got focused on one volvo I was about to scrape a front fender on, and thought I was clearing the one behind me. I hope I make it through the rest of May OK!

Glad to hear you are OK Reid. 8) Wouldn't want to lose you, or your pretty face. :)
 
Ouch ouch.

Oh man, I've done that. Twice. Never went for that inside pedal up business. That means coasting. Always like to power my way out of the steep turns. I once got clipon pedals (with that extra clearance) just to indulge that bad habit. Now with my ebike it's a different story.

Glad you're ok, that can be a nasty fall.

So did the axles actually turn in the dropouts? Nuts still tight? Is it possible that the wires came loose from the side of the fork and got caught up in the spokes?
 
New pictures just made a few minutes ago.
I have not un-done the axle nuts yet.
I plan to order a new fork, for the axle clearly spread the steel dropouts.

The SUV shows where it happened.
Lycra riders show just how tight one of them corners there, his pedal just barely clearing the pavement.

I pole vaulted. The bike leaning against the garage shows its maximum tilt: then you go Pogo.
This same thing happened to me on the first day I rode the bike manually, slowly, wobbly,
turning too tight in front of the house: Pogo! and a ripped knee. I may shorten the cranks by cutting and welding;
I like to corner fast while pedaling. Perhaps a shorter steel crank is available ready-made;
otherwise, I will cut and weld, or get much shorter pedals.

I was very lucky, landing on the dirt, bruised but no head injury.
This was the one time I did not ride with my BMX helmet (which would not have made a difference.

Cheers,
Scarface

P1090328.jpg

P1090332.jpg

P1090329.jpg

P1090354.jpg

P1090339.jpg

P1090349.jpg

P1090353.jpg
 
Reid Welch said:
I posit for my colleagues here:

the forks spread, not due to the -tiny- torque of 20 mph running with pedal assist, but
from the sudden stoppage caused by the curbing.

do you concur?
Click to expand...


Can't concur, as I see some problems in that.

Problem 1, the Ezee makes huge torque (relitivly). 42lbs at 36 volts, compared to a Clyte that makes around 27lbs (I used a 408 for comparison). Over time that would weaken the dropout.

Problem 2, I can't see any impact on the wheel bending the steel fork dropout, but not bending the wheel. If the tire protected the thin aluminum wheel, it would protecty the dropout.

Problem 3, the motor spun, but the axle didn't leave the dropouts. I can't imagine any force that would cause that condition except an axial force causing the dropouts to spread.
 
Quick reply: I will think about your thoughts; they are probably correct;
I'm too new and too dreamy to know just what occurred when it did.
It was fast and I was in some shock, aftershock, I thought all was well.
Then I saw the wind-up of the wires, and almost instantly, the motor quit (as I turned the bike).

Spread forks. A new fork is in order. More pictures in a few days.
Thank you for your educating thoughts! Torque arms, like from Justin, will be gotten.
I was pedaling hard at full speed; there was no 42 lbs of torque on the brake-less front wheel,
which still runs true and is un-bent. Yet...dropouts did not save the axle from spinning.

The lawyer lips and safety washers are present, perfectly fit, and I had =just= resnugged the two nuts.
Lucky me, I still have two nuts and one coconut-head and palmy thoughts for the future. :)

Thank you,
Reid
 
I imagine the wheel spun faster when airborne, then stopped instantly on landing, shock-loading the stator like a sledgehammer on a pipewrench... it is unlikely that the wheel was pointed in the rolling direction.

I don't suggest a test, but consider the effect if a hubbie at no-load WOT were stopped instantly with a disk brake.

Methods flew when his hub shorted and plug-braked him over the horns.
 
Tyler, I think you've nailed it. The wheel was stopped instantly then. All that gear motor inertia had to do the spin of -something- (the axle).

So, even a low-powered ebike needs torque arms. And in my case,
those cranks are too long. I will not put up with the prospect of pogo-flying again.
I'll have a shorter throw of cranks, more ground clearance so I can continue to lean hard;
and harder on the knees, shorter cranks they will be, sure,
but it's electric assist and my knees are no problem. It's my face that hurts. Loss of face.

Thank you, Tyler. You too are a genius thinker. We all know this to be the case.

____________

PS: I'm only guessing, but the bike went into the air, and its front wheel contacted the curbing. My left palm bears a road rash, as if it, too, contacted the curbing. But I landed in the dirt. So did the bike.

Monday I go to Coral Way Bicycle Shop (where I bought the basic bike) to show them how little damage the steel bike suffered; to order a front fork, and to ask about a shorter crank. They can recommend a welder/machinist, presuming the forged steel one piece crank comes only in one size.
The new fork should cost very, very little and arrive in just a few days at most. JB Importers is based right here in Miami.
They will fix me up. I needed to take off the fork, anyway, to fit a zerk and be able to waterproof the headstock bearing with waterproof grease for the submarine runs to come.
I'll paint the new fork yellow with a brush and Rustoleum, and paint the rest of the frame at that time, too.

Yellow but not chicken,
Reid
 
Reid,
Good to hear you made it through your crash basically intact. I did the pedal strike thing on a BMX bike back in the day, one second the thrill of the lean...the next is pedal strike, wheel lift and airborn.
My street bike now can't ever strike the pavement with the pedals (it is a recumbent) You could get folding bicycle pedals, they will fold up when the edges of them hit the street like folding pegs on motorcycles. Also, with those 1 piece cranks, they make shorter ones fairly cheap for the kids market. If you are running 170mm, they make them in 152 and 140mm arm lengths which will help. Easy to swap them out as cutting/welding on crank arms cause a weakness which you don't want to happen!
Since you are getting a new front fork, get one of those big BMX versions with the"990" brake mounts. Now you can have front brakes added to the beast, better than face planting a van or SUV that backs in front of you at 20 MPH!
Good luck, good healing but crashing is a good excuse for bike part upgrades (it works for me)
 
That intersection will be my death. Six years ago there was no traffic circle, just a two-way stop for the cross traffic.

I was descending the little bridge at no more than 15 mph. Mrs. Bitch on her cell phone, was poised to make a left turn, across my path.
She waited. She made full eye contact.
Just as I approached her, she gunned her throttle and zipped into my path.
the Model T had two wheel brakes, but they were no factor here; there was no time to even apply brakes.
Thank goodness it was a low-speed t-bone accident. A few milliseconds earlier-a-turn, and I would have broadsided her and flown through the tempered glass, quarter inch-thick T's two-piece, hinged windshield,
and over the hood of her Lexus.

She made eye contact. Yet she blamed me, yelling "you hit me!!!! You've ruined my car!"
Never mind that I could have died instantly, and my 12 year restoration was totaled.

That intersection is not safe. Drivers today, still unused to the traffic circle, do not know the rule of
right of way; to yield to the car on the right. The stop sign system was probably safer.

As it was, the circle was empty and I had clear sailing, literally and figuratively.

Two chances. I need seven.
[youtube]6ad1k4jRDyA[/youtube]
Buster would never have busted.
Watch this film. You will be happy.
 
Pardon me; I've missed reading three helpful replies.
I think I will replace the fork with the identical, but obtain torque arms.

I run only ten PSI in that front tire.

The suggestion that there ARE shorter one-piece cranks available is heartening.
I will try for that. Folding pedals otherwise.

You guys are great! Tyler quoted part of an old posting of mine.
Here's the whole thing. I never dreamed I'd be a flier too...
Reid Welch said:
Gee, that's nasty and a very good warning as well.

The "prevention" of that scenario for me is my choice of the freewheeling eZee geared motor.
No regen possible, no spin-out like yours possible, as you know.
Knoxie's BMC (sp?) type is the same thing at basis.

Well, I'd still feel better having a torque arm, freewheeling front hub motor, or not.
But at my 36V...it seems unlikely to need a torque arm. In forged steel dropouts we must trust...

Wow, man, were you lucky. Could have been....Goodbyesville.

GLAD you are OK, for sure. We need E.S. members, not dismembers. :cry:
Click to expand...
re: the bolded portion: never more.

Raven Reid
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top