KiwiEVs next project fast EV

I've always been an Audi/VW fan having owned a S4, TTS, A5 and Tiguan SEL. All AWD which would be ideal for 400ft lbs of electrical twist.

My vote goes Audi with DSG.

Tom
 
If I were going to build a sleeper, I'd find a Subaru Justy, and try to shoehorn a Tesla P85D drivetrain into it to make full use of that 4WD with 690 horsepower in a car that originally came in at under 2,000 lbs! Failing that, due to lack of availability of the Tesla motor(s)/inverter(s), finding a used AC150 from AC Propulsion would work well as it was the precursor to the Tesla's drive system. Tesla licensed its technology from ACP for the Roadster and Model S. It is capable of 200 horsepower and 13,000 rpm in a 110 lb package containing motor, inverter, charger, and DC-DC converter. There is one for sale on the evtradinpost for $6,500, but buyer beware: there is no support for this product available in the event you need a firmware/software upgrade. You'll be on your own when trying to get it to work, but should it work well, you can scarcely find a better drive system for the price.

The Audi TT would be a great choice in theory, as the 4WD is attractive, but you're going to run into a problem mounting a twin-motor setup into a space designed for a transverse-mounted engine, unless you have cu$tom components fabricated to accommodate twin motors in a vertical arrangement. There simply isn't enough horizontal clearance in this car to fit twin HPEVS AC motors/inverters..

Both the TT and Boxter are heavy with not-so-impressive aerodynamics, so you will need ~300 Wh/mile. The Boxter has better CdA in sq ft than the TT and is a few hundred lbs lighter than the TT, but the TT has a lot more battery room, is much more mechanically robust, and will be easier to keep the weight distribution correct.

If I were you, I'd pick something lighter and more aerodynamic. The Sonic kit you've already built is a good start from a standpoint of weight, but that same Sonic kit fitted with a custom streamliner body that has a CdA of under 4.5 sq ft would probably get by on less than 150 Wh/mi at highway speeds... As is, its aerodynamics have got to be horrendous from an efficiency standpoint. I bet that lightweight Sonic needs 300 Wh/mi at 100 km/h! I think you should scrap your plans for a TT or Boxter, and build a custom body for the Sonic, perhaps a body similar to the Opel Eco Speedster, Mercedes C111-III, Costin Nathan, or some other obscure, high-efficiency streamliner. The range you would get would be simply astounding.

If you want something with a stock body, a Triumph Spitfire or GT6, pre 2000s Alfa Romeo Spyder, Fiat 850 Spyder, Opel GT, 1st generation Toyota MR2, or any other sub-2000 lb classic sports car would be a good place to start, but will require modification to handle a decent amount of power.

If the above suggestions are too old, you can't go wrong with a 1st or 2nd generation Mazda Miata.

If you're dead set on either a TT or Boxter, my own personal preference would favor the TT.
 
So I have still been hunting for drive motor etc

And the new Parker traction AC motors look good about 12" long by 9" diameter weight is 56Kg and at 360 volts I can get 260hp and 425 ft/lb may have to go the Audi AWD to get the traction with a Rinehart controller.

Batteries Kokam 53Ah cells pouch cells they have great C rating and are designed for racing.

Any thoughts on above ???


Cheers Kiwi
 
kiwiev said:
So I have still been hunting for drive motor etc

And the new Parker traction AC motors look good about 12" long by 9" diameter weight is 56Kg and at 360 volts I can get 260hp and 425 ft/lb may have to go the Audi AWD to get the traction with a Rinehart controller.

Batteries Kokam 53Ah cells pouch cells they have great C rating and are designed for racing.

Any thoughts on above ???


Cheers Kiwi
Click to expand...

The Kokam batteries are light and powerful, but sound expensive and potentially dangerous if you don't get the right kind of charger and management system.

The Kokams are a very niche product and might be more difficult and/or expensive to obtain than something like the CALBs, but there are a fair number of conversions using this brand. Ever see Pro EV's AWD 340 horsepower Kokam-powered Electric IMP?

http://www.proev.com/P1News.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJWNzFR_QQ

I prefer using well-tested components that are widely available and used in hundreds of conversions, if it is to be an A to B daily driver. Turning the Audi TT into a 2-seater(since the back seats are useless for anything but small children) and fitting in a pack of 112 CALB CA100FI batteries would be the way to go if you wanted reliability with the full use of that AC motor's capabilities. The car would probably weigh in at around 3,500 lbs, but you'd have 0-100 km/h capability of ~4.5 seconds if the car were geared for 260 km/h top speed with no gear shifting required as a single speed, if you got 260 hp and 425 lb-ft out of it. The TT is quite mechanically stout and I've heard of its gearbox being able to handle 600 horsepower! If you keep the transmission, the car will be even faster to accelerate, although air drag would probably limit you to somewhere around 240-260 km/h with only 260 horsepower on tap, assuming motor rpm wasn't a limiting factor with the stock gearing. If this 3,500 lb weight was an issue, you could gut it further into a race car. The interior has a lot of useless dead weight in this car. You might also be able to fit a bunch of salvaged Volt or Leaf batteries if cost or space is an issue for the CALBs and if you want to retain the back seats.

But if you are going to make it into a race car, the Kokams wouldn't be a bad choice. But if I were going to make a race car, I wouldn't use an Audi TT or Porsche Boxter as the base. Too heavy...
 
The Toecutter said:
kiwiev said:
So I have still been hunting for drive motor etc

And the new Parker traction AC motors look good about 12" long by 9" diameter weight is 56Kg and at 360 volts I can get 260hp and 425 ft/lb may have to go the Audi AWD to get the traction with a Rinehart controller.

Batteries Kokam 53Ah cells pouch cells they have great C rating and are designed for racing.

Any thoughts on above ???


Cheers Kiwi
Click to expand...

The Kokam batteries are light and powerful, but sound expensive and potentially dangerous if you don't get the right kind of charger and management system.

The Kokams are a very niche product and might be more difficult and/or expensive to obtain than something like the CALBs, but there are a fair number of conversions using this brand. Ever see Pro EV's AWD 340 horsepower Kokam-powered Electric IMP?

http://www.proev.com/P1News.htm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXJWNzFR_QQ

I prefer using well-tested components that are widely available and used in hundreds of conversions, if it is to be an A to B daily driver. Turning the Audi TT into a 2-seater(since the back seats are useless for anything but small children) and fitting in a pack of 112 CALB CA100FI batteries would be the way to go if you wanted reliability with the full use of that AC motor's capabilities. The car would probably weigh in at around 3,500 lbs, but you'd have 0-100 km/h capability of ~4.5 seconds if the car were geared for 260 km/h top speed with no gear shifting required as a single speed, if you got 260 hp and 425 lb-ft out of it. The TT is quite mechanically stout and I've heard of its gearbox being able to handle 600 horsepower! If you keep the transmission, the car will be even faster to accelerate, although air drag would probably limit you to somewhere around 240-260 km/h with only 260 horsepower on tap, assuming motor rpm wasn't a limiting factor with the stock gearing. If this 3,500 lb weight was an issue, you could gut it further into a race car. The interior has a lot of useless dead weight in this car. You might also be able to fit a bunch of salvaged Volt or Leaf batteries if cost or space is an issue for the CALBs and if you want to retain the back seats.

But if you are going to make it into a race car, the Kokams wouldn't be a bad choice. But if I were going to make a race car, I wouldn't use an Audi TT or Porsche Boxter as the base. Too heavy...
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Thanks for the info Toecutter :idea: :idea:

What Vehicle would you recommend???

The only reason I am thinking the Kokams is great cycles and I may be able to get a cheap used pack with about 300 cycles on it already boxed up and BMS :D

Cheers Kiwi
 
kiwiev said:
What Vehicle would you recommend???
Click to expand...

Something light weight, and either rear-wheel drive or four-wheel-drive, with a variety of aftermarket parts available with which to modify the vehicle to safely and reliably handle more power.

A few ideas:

-Subaru Brat
-Subaru Justy
-Mitsubishi Eclipse, 1st generation, AWD
-Triumph Spitfire
-Triumph GT6
-MGB or MGB GT
-Mazda Miata, 1st or 2nd generation
-Opel GT
-Opel Kadett
-Fiat 850 Spyder
-Alfa Romeo Spyder
-Suzuki Samurai, 4WD
-Datsun 1200
-Datsun 240Z
-Volkswagen Beetle, 1st generation
-Toyota MR2 or MR2 Spyder
-Lotus Elise
-Dodge Neon SRT4

The only reason I am thinking the Kokams is great cycles and I may be able to get a cheap used pack with about 300 cycles on it already boxed up and BMS :D

Cheers Kiwi
Click to expand...

Make sure it is in good working order. These are a rather fussy battery, from what I've heard. I have no experience with them, mind you.
 
I live in the U.S.

Many of those models have an Australian equivalent with a different name. The Subaru Brat is known in Australia as the Subaru Brumby, as an example(You would want the light weight 1st generation model that weighs under 2,200 lbs).

I looked to vehicles with a decent size aftermarket and that weighed in at under 2,500 lbs stock(The SRT4 being the lone exception to that weight limit in my list), that were either rear-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive. You're going to need to modify these vehicles to handle the additional power you seek, but the payoff will be worth it in the form of a stock-bodied vehicle that has the performance to match or beat a high-end gasoline powered exotic.

A Subaru Justy hatchback or Subaru Brumby truck would make the ultimate sleeper, IMO. They look so crappy and weak(and normally are), and would benefit greatly from an over-powered electric drive system due to their low mass and all-wheel-drive capability.
 
The Toecutter said:
I live in the U.S.

Many of those models have an Australian equivalent with a different name. The Subaru Brat is known in Australia as the Subaru Brumby, as an example(You would want the light weight 1st generation model that weighs under 2,200 lbs).

I looked to vehicles with a decent size aftermarket and that weighed in at under 2,500 lbs stock(The SRT4 being the lone exception to that weight limit in my list), that were either rear-wheel-drive or all-wheel-drive. You're going to need to modify these vehicles to handle the additional power you seek, but the payoff will be worth it in the form of a stock-bodied vehicle that has the performance to match or beat a high-end gasoline powered exotic.

A Subaru Justy hatchback or Subaru Brumby truck would make the ultimate sleeper, IMO. They look so crappy and weak(and normally are), and would benefit greatly from an over-powered electric drive system due to their low mass and all-wheel-drive capability.
Click to expand...


Thanks Toecutter

have checked out a few its really a toss up to go classic old 1960-1980 or go 2005 and newer. The old cars need work on everything from door handles to seats etc and parts are hard to get new.

I have the Sonic up at SummerNats in the new year its Australia's largest Hotrod show maybe I will find a new home for the Sonic :(

Cheers Kiwi
 
kiwiev said:
Thanks Toecutter

have checked out a few its really a toss up to go classic old 1960-1980 or go 2005 and newer. The old cars need work on everything from door handles to seats etc and parts are hard to get new.
Click to expand...

That was the case with my GT6. Excluding EV components, I have spent roughly $4,000 USD restoring it, including body work, hiring someone to weld in floor pans, and the purchase of various parts that it needed. That's not cheap...

There's still lots of work needed to make it perfect as it's far from that, but it runs and drives at the moment, and the main portions of the project are complete. Another $2,000-3,000 invested would likely get it to that point.

I have the Sonic up at SummerNats in the new year its Australia's largest Hotrod show maybe I will find a new home for the Sonic :(

Cheers Kiwi
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I bet you will miss it...

If I were you, I'd keep it and build a streamlined body shell onto it. It's almost the perfect donor, IMO. It just needs better aerodynamics and a few basic features(defroster, wipers, heater).
 
The Toecutter said:
If I were you, I'd keep it and build a streamlined body shell onto it. It's almost the perfect donor, IMO. It just needs better aerodynamics and a few basic features(defroster, wipers, heater).
Click to expand...


Hey Toecutter I want this one for Christmas


Cheers Kiwi
 
So after going to SummerNats it got me thinking about what you guys were saying about a sleeper.i have a mid 1990 1998 Toyota 2wd Hilux extra cab ute pick up with well side body its currently our firewood truck I could fit 2 AC-35 x 2 motors thats 4 motors for a total 330 hp and 380 ft lb of torque. I could low ride the ute easy with blocks and the front has adjustable torque arms. Have the body tilt to hide the battery pack underneath. The truck weighs less than 1300kg.
Anyway food for thought :idea:
Make an awesome Ebike transporter 8)

Cheers Kiwi
 
Yuesss!

ST-1407-GEARS-lead-e1403033533666.jpg
 
kiwiev said:
Thanks Hilly
Any info on the truck?
Cheers Kiwi
Click to expand...
Owned , built and driven by Shawn Lawless.. Who has built most of the fastest EV drag vehicles in the US.
Powered by 4 GE DC motors , & 2 Zilla controllers.
Battery pack, was 330 volt, Lipo , from HTS.
Some pics here...http://forums.thefoat.com/nedra/sg-forums.thread/th-983/Shawn+Lawless+and+Lemon+Juice+Breaks+into+the+9's+at+127+mph/
 
Ahhh you probably need to be logged in to AEVA for access to their classifieds section. I just thought of it because you mentioned Hilux, it's not fast :D .
 
Thanks Greg

When I first starting building my solar then EVs 8 years ago. I was told batteries were going to get cheaper I'm still waifing ..........

Cheers Kiwi
 
kiwiev said:
Hey Toecutter I want this one for Christmas


Cheers Kiwi
Click to expand...

The drag coefficient of the Sonic, even with that kit installed, would still be quite poor.

I'm talking about building your own custom streamliner body. Imagine wrapping the body of an Opel Eco Speedster, with a 0.20 Cd and 15.2 sq ft frontal area, around your Sonic. Then watch as your range at 100 km/h doubles due to greatly increased efficiency, without adding any more batteries.


BTW, a converted HiLux with an over-abundance of power would be hilarious. I'd recommend going DC with twin WarP 11 HVs and a Soliton Shiva, if you want to pick on Lamborghinis and Ferraris, that is...
 
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