LA 2013: VW Announces 256 MPG plug-in Diesel Hybrid

[Hillhater]

The disadvantage being the electric drivetrain having to constantly lug the extra weight of the deisel drivetrain..

Yes, true if it mostly only gets used for those 20-30 mile commutes.
But even the BEV's have to strike a compromise on battery capacity/size (range) and weight.
They could squeeze in another 50 mile range, but that would jack the weight up by another 100kg and hurt the overall performance for short range use.
At some point in the range requirement, the hybrid option becomes the better alternative with regards to weight and performance.
I suspect GM crunched those numbers a lot before finally settling on the battery size ( E-range) for the Volt.

 

[sendler2112]

... if the thing can even get 70mpg, that would be pretty freaking fantastic.

Why ? ..there are plenty of "normal" diesel cars already being sold that can do much better than that..
Here is a list of a few of them..
http://www.nextgreencar.com/search/all-vehicle-classes/Diesel/mpg/

I don't know where those numbers are coming from but they are completely inflated. Any of those cars claiming "88 mpg" would be lucky to break 50 mpgUS on an EPA test cycle or in real world use. Maybe those are Imperial gallons, which would still be way high. One test cycle I know of that gives outlandish numbers is the Japan cycle which lists the Prius C at 82 mpgUS while real world user's on Fuelly average only 51. US EPA sticker shows 50 combined for that car. The two cylinder diesel hybrid UP might get 70 mpgUS.
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[Hillhater]

. Any of those cars claiming "88 mpg" would be lucky to break 50 mpgUS on an EPA test cycle or in real world use. Maybe those are Imperial gallons,
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for sure they are Imp gallons, and no, i dont know how the tests were conducted, but they are an independnt body, so thee must be some basis to the tests.
..but the point is there are many cars that have "tested" over 70 mpg (US)...
What is "real world" anyway ?..to many, its stuck in a traffic jam for hours to move a few miles. = <<10mpg in any car !

 

[sendler2112]

What is "real world" anyway ?.

For the VW Golf 1.6 TDI 2013 real world is about either side of 41 mpgUS.
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http://www.fuelly.com/car/volkswagen/golf/2013/diesel%20l4
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The Prius C is about the highest you can get in the US right now though an UP or Lupo diesel could be about the same and cost less to buy. It takes power to move through the air on the highway at 65 mph. The Gen1 Honda insight is still the champ on cdA and can really break 60 mpgUS.
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[Hillhater]

Unfortunately, manufacturers and test organizations dont use those real world situations.

 

[Punx0r]

Regardless of how accurate someone considers a test cycle we cannot compare mpg figures derived from different tesf cycle standards. That is apples vs. oranges

 

[sendler2112]

80% overblown test numbers just get everyone's hopes up. The Japan test cycle showed the new Honda Fit hybrid testing at 86 mpgUS so several optimists on Ecomodder were going around telling everyone to wait on any near term car purchases thinknig this represented a quantum leap in efficiency compared to what is already known from real world reports of other cars that are actually driving around now. The next Fit hybrid will beat the Prius C by a few percent. Only.
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A two cylinder diesel hybrid VW might get 70 mpgUS which would be excellent if the price stayed in the $teens.

 

[Hillhater]

The Prius C is about the highest you can get in the US right now though an UP or Lupo diesel could be about the same and cost less to buy. It takes power to move through the air on the highway at 65 mph. The Gen1 Honda insight is still the champ on cdA and can really break 60 mpgUS.
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You dont seem to understand.
The "Real World" results are different for each user, hence why that "Fuelly" chart shows users getting everything from 25 to 50+ mpg ..FROM THE SAME CAR !
( which, by the way, appear to be the 2.0TDi models, not the 1.6 TDi Bluemotion version)
The Prius has been shown repeatedly to have worse mileage than large non hybrid sedans when used outside urban areas
There is no point comparing test results from different "test" procedures, that is why there are accepted test standards.
We may not like how they actually set those procedures ..but it doesnt matter, since we are only using them to compare different vehicles.

 

[sendler2112]

that is why there are accepted test standards.

Yes. We are good to discuss it if you don't go around saying the UP will get 256 and the Prius will get 82 mpgUS just because they tested at that in Germany or Japan. Their tests are way off. The new US EPA sticker test is the best right now at predicting what the real world average will be. On average the real highway economy will be very close to the highway number on the sticker. EPA states 46 for the Prius C and average users on Fuelly are getting 50 with a large sample of 600 cars and a perfect bell curve. The Gen2 Insight stickers at 44 highway. The new Honda hybrid should make it to 52 mpg and the 2 cyl VW might crack 70 mpgUS which would be quite an accomplishment if they can keep it affordable.

 

[Hillhater]

So what does the EPA rate the 1.6 Bluemotion diesel Golf at ?

 

[sendler2112]

So what does the EPA rate the 1.6 Bluemotion diesel Golf at ?

It must not be sold in the US? Fueleconomy.gov lists the 2.0 TDI Golf at 42 mpgUS highway which is exactly what it is showing on Fuelly.
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http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/PowerSearch.do?action=noform&path=1&year1=2014&year2=2014&make=Volkswagen&model=Golf&srchtyp=ymm
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[sendler2112]

Fueleconomy.gov top 10 are all plug in EV's of course. Then select "no ev's" to see that the Prius is the top rated ice car in the US right now.

 

[Hillhater]

Interesting that the Prius (reg) rates 73mpg, which is 15mpg less than the 1.6 golf TDi ( 88mpg), on the Next green site..
http://www.nextgreencar.com/new-car-search/
..and the 1.6 TDi golf is 19mpg better than the 2.0TDi Golf (69mpg) on that test
So that may put the 1.6 Golf well ahead of the Prius on EPA test also,..if they get round to testing it !

 

[sendler2112]

So we might be able to extrapolate that the BlueMotion 1.6 VW will beat the Prius by 20% which would put it at 60 mpgUS.
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But Spiritmonitor (the european Fuelly) shows real world user's of the BMT averaging about 5.02 L/100km, 47 mpgUS.
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http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/50-Volkswagen/452-Golf.html?fueltype=1&gearing=1&exactmodel=1.6%20tdi%20bmt&powerunit=2
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[Hillhater]

Oh Jeez another variable data source !
OK, but that same source has the Prius at 5.2 lt/100km ( 45mpg) !!
http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/439-Prius.html?gearing=2&powerunit=2

All we are proving here is that every data source gives different results.
..Which, again, is why we have standard test procedures.

 

[sendler2112]

OK, but that same source has the Prius at 5.2 lt/100km ( 45mpg) !!
http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/49-Toyota/439-Prius.html?gearing=2&powerunit=2

So the VW 1.6 diesel does beat the Prius by about 4%. The advantage will be even slightly better with that engine in the smaller VW Up! which should also be cheaper to buy.

 

[Hillhater]

Spiritmonitor (the european Fuelly) shows real world user's of the BMT averaging about 5.02 L/100km, 47 mpgUS.
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http://www.spritmonitor.de/en/overview/50-Volkswagen/452-Golf.html?fueltype=1&gearing=1&exactmodel=1.6%20tdi%20bmt&powerunit=2
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Have you noticed that all the data there is for the 1.6, 105 psi version ?
That is a very different state of "tune" to the latest, more economical, 110 psi version that yeilded the high mpg figure on Next green. the 105 psi version is much lower down at 74 mpg.
http://www.nextgreencar.com/new-car-search/

What is odd , is that the (lighter) Polo with a 1.6 TDi motor is stuck at 66's mpg ..a full 22 mpg less than the bigger golf ?
http://www.nextgreencar.com/new-car-search/

 

[sendler2112]

What is odd , is that the (lighter) Polo with a 1.6 TDi motor is stuck at 66's mpg ..a full 22 mpg less than the bigger golf ?
http://www.nextgreencar.com/new-car-search/

Something is obviously wrong with that test that showed the Golf at 88 mpg, beating the Prius by 20%. The current Prius is pretty dialed in, aerodynamically and mechanically. The new two cyl diesel/ hybrid might jump it by that much. If it is priced so that anyone will actually buy it.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Here's a review on whatcar.co.uk of actual users of the VW Polo 1.2 TDI 75 (80 ?) hp 3 cylinder diesel.

Note, these are all imperial mpg figures.

"This is a car built for a purpose - fuel efficiency. This is what it does well. Commuting I am getting 70mpg, however on a longer run, I achieved 79MPG on a 550 mile drive through scotland, the motorway portion of this I calculated as being 89MPG. This wasn't going too fast and constant speed on cruise control.

The downside of this is that the car can be quite slow, especially when accelerating uphill. This is a small price to pay. It can be nippy if you go into higher revs, but this wouldn't be fuel efficient."

This is for the VW Golf 1.6 105 hp diesel.

"Seen high 60's on the motorway on c/c, but lows of 25 in town. Better than the 130hp Laguna, but not what was promised."

Now I'm always suspicious or reader's mpg calculations, and the "I get xx on the Motorway" what matters is your average per tank not what you get on a particular trip. So I calculate at the same pump. I fill to the click and round off and calculate, I don't do a brim to brim as that's a pain in the arse and we're looking for average not exact.

Now I couldn't drive a slow car such as a 3 cylinder diesel, never. I'd rather have an 8 year old car that's faster and convert to lpg, people rarely calculate depreciation as a substantial cost of car ownership which in many cased adds up to a whole lot more than fuel costs.

 

[sendler2112]

Here's a review on whatcar.co.uk of actual users of the VW Polo 1.2 TDI 75 (80 ?) hp 3 cylinder diesel.

Note, these are all imperial mpg figures.

"This is a car built for a purpose - fuel efficiency. This is what it does well. Commuting I am getting 70mpg, however on a longer run, I achieved 79MPG on a 550 mile drive through scotland

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That would be an impressive 67 mpgUS in a Polo, Lupo, or Up!. The two cylinder hybrid should even beat that by a bit.

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Now I couldn't drive a slow car such as a 3 cylinder diesel, never. I'd rather have an 8 year old car that's faster and convert to lpg, people rarely calculate depreciation as a substantial cost of car ownership which in many cased adds up to a whole lot more than fuel costs.

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Driving a fuel efficient car isn't about saving money on total cost of ownership. Buying one $3000 used car after the other will always be the cheapest. It's about saving fossil fuel and carbon emissions. I wonder how 11 billion hungry people will farm enough food when all of the fossil fuel is gone 150 years from now. We need to start developing alternative technology now as it takes a century to rebuild infrastructure.

 

[dnmun]

there will not be 11 billion people. most of the coastal flood plains which are so productive now will be gone and billions of people displaced and the water stored in the himalayan mountain ranges will not be there for irrigation in pakistan and india. much of africa will become a barren wasteland in the interior so the population will shrink back to the 3-4 billion level by then. all the oil and gas will be requisitioned by the armies so there will not be much choice about how you get around.

 

[speedmd]

Why talk stinky piston engines. Might as well be driving steam engines in comparison to all electric drives. We should all be looking to melt them all down and make the next gen products with the scrap metal. The eagle has landed! This one makes Eight that I counted (hydrogen fuel cell electric)that are planned for some time in the next two years. Will keep driving the old one until these get the bugs worked out.

 

[sendler2112]

I would buy a VW XL1 in a heartbeat if it was $25,000 instead of $60,000?. I am due for something newer within a couple years as my Gen1 Insight is getting up there with 220,000 miles. I am saving it as much as possible for now by riding the CBR250R or PCX150 at 100 mpgUS whenever the roads are ice free.
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