Landspeed Record Attempt

[John in CR]

Much of what you rules loving guys want is handled already by electrathon events. eg the 1 hour distance record with 1kwh of battery, which I believe stands at 61 miles. That covers who builds the most efficient and aerodynamic electric vehicle regardless of power or weight.

 

[sk8norcal]

...anyways, looks like its a pointless record, since nobody can agree on what an ebike is....

An ebike is anything with 2 wheels and an electric motor. It's the pedalists who have a problem.

wait, what? did you mean 2 wheels, electric motor and working pedals?
cuz 2 wheels and an electric motor would make an electric motorcycle...

and I am actually looking at this from the "motorist" point of view
howz your bike different from an electric scooter? its the same difference....

I do like to see a 150 lb limit electric streamliner,
but whether it has pegs or "fake cranks", its the same difference to me....

not sure how much this 50cc streamliner weighs...

It's kind of a moot point, since Lightning already beat the gassers. .

Lightning beat the gassers in what?


and here's a prone position you can consider for your scooterbike...

 

[speedmd]

Speed records for human - motor hybrids. We own it.
Thinking something like micro 100 watt class (under 5kg motor/battery) and also a commuter 250 watt (under 10kg motor/battery).
Common larger ebike sizes of 500 and 1000w also and possibly expand to 2k, 4k, 8 etc.

 

[www.recumbents.com]

Semi-prone Salt Racer scribble



Yeah, e-bikes are a tough fit into any existing records organization. Fortunately, anyone can create a world wide records organization. All you need to do is:

* Make a fancy name like Zealous Ebike Racing Association (ZEBRA)
* Create rules
* Form a record committee of folks from around the world.
* Publish records.

You can "sanction" results from various venues like salt flats as legal records.

-Warren.

 

[speedmd]

* Make a fancy name like Zealous Ebike Racing Association (ZEBRA)

Run the races at "Greeneville"

 

[sk8norcal]

how about NEDRA? they don't care about pedal bikes?
http://www.nedra.com/record_holders.html
http://www.nedra.com/land_speed_racing.html

The only realistic thing I see happening is an ES record, where the members can vote on what rules they want to implement.
I think that would be a fair way to do it.

 

[Seriousknot]

I just spoke to an SCTA official and he referred me to the USFRA I looked at their site and found this http://www.saltflats.com/Electric%20Rules.html so it looks like we can run after all and they run against "World of Speed Records"

 

[MadRhino]

"Batteries must be conventional production, rechargeable, lead-acid type"

Looks like 19th century rules apply. You can carry 67 pounds of lead :|

 

[www.recumbents.com]

Yeah, Electrothon has a great racing organization but draconian rules. To them a bike has 3 wheels, and they keep the playing field level by stipulating xx lbs of lead acid batteries. They have great fun heating up their lead acid batteries to bring them to the optimal temperature before running their races.

It would be tough to make wattage rules in our group, so any rules would have to be set arbitrarily.

I like the "must be able to pedal up to 20 MPH rule", and the xx lb max rule. IMO a bike should weigh less than 100 lbs. Those two rules alone will keep people from going crazy with the motorcycle parts and mongo motors and ensure there is at least a rudimentary human power system.

Maybe for classes:
unfaired upright
unfaired recumbent
unfaired prone
faired upright
faired recumbent
faired prone

-Warren.

 

[speedmd]

It would be tough to make wattage rules in our group, so any rules would have to be set arbitrarily.

May be best to come up with a physical motor measurement (sq. area of magnets) to establish class and allow any voltage/ wattage to flow to it. For the fuel vehicles, they don't restrict the amount of gas they get only the motor parameters, such as displacement/ turbo/ supercharged/ etc. Would think it is as much a race to create the best power supply (battery) also.

We also should not do it on the salt. We should pick a faster surface perfect for bike tires.

 

[John in CR]

cuz 2 wheels and an electric motor would make an electric motorcycle...

You're halfway there. Electric motorcycles are ebikes too. "Bikes" are quite a common term applied correctly to both pedal bicycles and motorcycles. Somehow you rules loving pedalists think adding an "e" for electric in front changes things. AFAIC it's the same kind of discrimination applied early in the 20th century to prevent recumbents from being legal pedal bikes for racing. Don't repeat the same kind of disservice to the world that they did, and don't discourage any EV that best meets a person's needs. Whatever the legal classification ends up is irrelevant at this point. Let's see what kind of vehicles are possible first.

 

[sk8norcal]

I think we are actually sort of on the same page.

I meant to say "nobody can seem to agree on what an electric bicycle is suppose to be?"
(whenever ebike is mentioned on ES, most everyone on here automatically assumes electric bicycle)

well aware of the fact that both cyclists and motorcyclists refer to their ride as a "bike".

Like I said already, I do like to see a 150 lb limit electric 2 wheel streamliner,
but whether it has pegs or "fake cranks", its the same difference to me....

So john, what record are u trying to set?
I believe the fastest electric 2 wheeler using hub motor would be the Catavolt...

 

[www.recumbents.com]

I'm watching The World's Fastest Indian again. It's a great movie about aging Kiwi Burt Munroe (played by Anthony Hopkins) who wants to race his highly modified Indian motorcycle on the Bonneville salt flats. It's very well done and is one of my favorite movies.

Here's the actual Burt Munroe with his salt flats racer.

I think it's a must see for anyone thinking about racing on the salt flats.

-Warren.

 

[John in CR]

I think we are actually sort of on the same page.

I meant to say "nobody can seem to agree on what an electric bicycle is suppose to be?"
(whenever ebike is mentioned on ES, most everyone on here automatically assumes electric bicycle)

well aware of the fact that both cyclists and motorcyclists refer to their ride as a "bike".

Like I said already, I do like to see a 150 lb limit electric 2 wheel streamliner,
but whether it has pegs or "fake cranks", its the same difference to me....

So john, what record are u trying to set?
I believe the fastest electric 2 wheeler using hub motor would be the Catavolt...

Sorry about the knee-jerk reaction lumping you in with that group. I saw a 177kph with a forklift motor for them, but I haven't seen a top speed with the Enertrac. With that double stator motor they've got, I may not be able to reach them, at least without getting spendy on a couple of Sevcon Gen4 Size 8 controllers in order to reach a much higher voltage. Yes something with a hubmotor would be my focus, since that's where my experience and resources are concentrated, so that's where I can contribute.

I like Warren's idea, we just start our own organization. To me a weight cutoff or two makes real sense and is easy to verify, and vehicle type make perfect sense for classes. I like segregation of motor in-wheel or not, though I'm obviously biased. My attitude is for out of wheel there's no real pushing of the envelope. ie A high power motor, good aero, and balls to ride it. That's not to belittle getting to extreme speed, because that takes real science, but where's pushing the envelope other than lightweight construction? OTOH, hubmotors power more EVs for transportation than anything unless golf carts somehow beat out the Chinese, and we need better hubmotors badly.

John

 

[Kingfish]

I'm watching The World's Fastest Indian again. It's a great movie about aging Kiwi Burt Munroe (played by Anthony Hopkins) who wants to race his highly modified Indian motorcycle on the Bonneville salt flats. It's very well done and is one of my favorite movies.

Here's the actual Burt Munroe with his salt flats racer.

I think it's a must see for anyone thinking about racing on the salt flats.

-Warren.

That's one of my very favorite underdog type movies; loved rooting for the nicest bike nerd on the planet! And the quotes: "Dirty old men need love too!" :lol:

Here's a couple that are more bike-related:
The Flying Scotsman (2006). Saw this rather recently on Netflix; incredible story about the guy who pioneered lightweight aero style racing.
American Flyers (1985). Great cyclers battling up the hills + personal dramas.

Good movies they are. KF <nods> :wink:

 

[Doctorbass]

I think we are actually sort of on the same page.

I meant to say "nobody can seem to agree on what an electric bicycle is suppose to be?"
(whenever ebike is mentioned on ES, most everyone on here automatically assumes electric bicycle)

well aware of the fact that both cyclists and motorcyclists refer to their ride as a "bike".

Like I said already, I do like to see a 150 lb limit electric 2 wheel streamliner,
but whether it has pegs or "fake cranks", its the same difference to me....

So john, what record are u trying to set?
I believe the fastest electric 2 wheeler using hub motor would be the Catavolt...

Sorry about the knee-jerk reaction lumping you in with that group. I saw a 177kph with a forklift motor for them, but I haven't seen a top speed with the Enertrac. With that double stator motor they've got, I may not be able to reach them, at least without getting spendy on a couple of Sevcon Gen4 Size 8 controllers in order to reach a much higher voltage. Yes something with a hubmotor would be my focus, since that's where my experience and resources are concentrated, so that's where I can contribute.

I like Warren's idea, we just start our own organization. To me a weight cutoff or two makes real sense and is easy to verify, and vehicle type make perfect sense for classes. I like segregation of motor in-wheel or not, though I'm obviously biased. My attitude is for out of wheel there's no real pushing of the envelope. ie A high power motor, good aero, and balls to ride it. That's not to belittle getting to extreme speed, because that takes real science, but where's pushing the envelope other than lightweight construction? OTOH, hubmotors power more EVs for transportation than anything unless golf carts somehow beat out the Chinese, and we need better hubmotors badly.

John

 

[www.recumbents.com]

From my speed calculator it's pretty obvious that the combination of low weight, high power and no aerodynamic aids means the e-bikes get up to top speed very quickly.

Because of that, it is probably not necessary to go to the salt flats to see how fast you bike will go. A cool place in Texas is the Texas Mile: http://www.texasmile.net

For those of you that may not want to drive 1000 miles or spend kilobucks, your local drag strip should be plenty long to get your e-bike up to top speed.

All we need is someplace to keep track of these activities...

-Warren.

 

[major]

The record is a tad over 215 mph at Bonneville....

That would be 215.960 mph. Here's the crew:



Paul Thede at work:



And the time slip for the record back up:



Maybe I'll see you guys out there some day.

 

[sk8norcal]

speaking of 150 lb streamliner,

i didnt know electrathon trikes attemped bonneville....
(i believe their max weight is 150 lbs)

http://brucesherrydesigns.com/blog/category/electrathon/

In 2007, the Utah Salt Flats Racing Association added an Electrathon class, with the same basic rules, but competing for straight line top speed in one mile (1.6 km).[3] The current record is 110.258 mph (177.443 km/h) by Cloud Electric in 2008

[youtube]m_nD0W4-Uv4[/youtube]

 

[sk8norcal]

on their site, they mentioned they were thinking of electrifying this mini streamliner...
vehicle + driver = 725 lbs

[youtube]Df8XVdKbiLA[/youtube]

 

[Bullfrog]

The problem with Bonneville is the class structure is based on overall weight...sort of archaic IMO and developed back when the only batteries available were lead acid.

The East Coast Timing Association currently follows the class structure developed by the National Electric Drag Racing Association and it is based on battery voltage.

I just built a bike that could run in the less than or equal to 52.8v class and took it for its maiden voyage this morning.

45.6 mph...measured with a GPS and the prevailing winds were virtually zero and the road I used was very flat so I feel the speed was accurate and honest. My battery voltage when I started was 52.8 volts.

As far as I have been able to determine, my bike would set a record speed for 52.8 volts. I used a 5T MAC motor, running a 26" Hookworm rear tire, and a 14s6p battery with 25R cells. Bike started life as a Walmart purchase...Schwinn Sidewinder.

Here are pics of me on the bike before the run and a pic of the bike at home:

 

[markz]

JPEG.jpg

What size tires?

 

[Bullfrog]

Front is a 2.4x26 Schwalbe Super Moto-X and the rear is a 2.5x26 Maxxis Hookworm.

Motor is a "5T" I special ordered from MAC.