Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[Kodin]

More updates since people are having questions about dimensions:

I temporarily installed the hub on the freehub shaft to take dimensions.

Space you need from base of thread on freehub side to dropout: ~13.5mm

Space you have left of thread for dropout and nut(s): ~20mm, give or take. My pictures show half-assed measurements as I can't find my freehub spline tool, so my cassette isn't cinched down more than finger-tight. That's if you want to have only one or two mm of clearance off the freehub nut.

Side note, I discovered that the shoulder that the freehub bearing sits on had some dings in it and was chafing the rubber seal on the inboard side of the bearing. (If you look closely, you can see a white ring worn into the blue rubber bearing seal)

A minute on the lathe with some draw-filing, and it's rounded over. May improve it a bit more later by decreasing contact down to only the inner bearing race diameter, but my chuck is a bit wobbly; the camlock mounts were funky when I got the lathe and I haven't bothered to fix it yet. That will change soon.

Interesting side-note! A file cuts into the shaft like it would on mild unhardened steel. I'm definitely going to replace this one as soon as possible now. Anyone else want one once I get the lathe in order let me know; I'm going to price out CrMo in 1" diameters and order some to start working with.

 

[drewjet]

Interesting side-note! A file cuts into the shaft like it would on mild unhardened steel. I'm definitely going to replace this one as soon as possible now. Anyone else want one once I get the lathe in order let me know; I'm going to price out CrMo in 1" diameters and order some to start working with.

Yes I would. Way rather have a hardened shaft. Awesome

 

[neptronix]

Weird. You know, when i took my leaf motor off my bike after tons of abuse, the axles were basically in perfect shape.

Whatever the metal is, it's way stronger than the crystalyte axle steel. Pushing less torque into a Crystalyte HS3548 in a 20" wheel resulted in chewing away at some of the metal after just 4 rides at 6000w

 

[Kodin]

I'll try the same thing with the freewheel shaft when I pull it out this weekend and we'll see if it's harder steel. Could just be because my cassette shaft was prototype-ish. Either way, it cuts pretty damn easily on a lathe and nowhere near the hardness of a file. I was afraid it'd be some sort of really hard steel, but it cuts easily. Maybe it's enough strength for the application. I'd rather have a shaft bend than fracture, so that might be what they are going for here.

 

[mchlpeel]

Just a slight diversion


I am getting an 18fet 4110 from em3ev. I intend to run the throttle and ebrakes through the CAv3 and have it control limits etc instead of the controller. (using adaptor module for regen)

With this in mind how would I program the controller? Do I just set all limits to 999 or whatever is max to allow the cycle analyst to have complete control?

Couldn't really see anything in the unofficial manual.

 

[Kodin]

Leafbike updated their listing with more options for orders:

http://leafbike.com/products/e-bike-hub-motor/gearless-20-24-26-700c-28-inch/updated-20-inch-48v-1500w-rear-hub-motor-wheel-1016.html

 

[neptronix]

Leafbike updated their listing with more options for orders:

http://leafbike.com/products/e-bike-hub-motor/gearless-20-24-26-700c-28-inch/updated-20-inch-48v-1500w-rear-hub-motor-wheel-1016.html

Nice!! about fecking time!! Wrong dyno sheet still, but thanks for the note.

 

[Wheazel]

Just ordered a Leafmotor in a 26" rim suitable for 2,5" wide tyres.
Also ordered tempsensor, upgraded phasewires and a wind that gives 60-70km/h on 18s.
They said OK so I ordered.

Will compare the motors efficiency towards the questionable efficiency of my cargobike with adaptto maxE and revolt120pro.
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=70500

 

[Kodin]

I somehow can't imagine what an 80 RPM at 48V motor would even look like. Really wondering if I should eventually convert my 5T into a mid-drive later on down the road... Go full-on-dirtbike design. Thinking a 3T would be best for that though since I'd be gearing it with a drive chain and sprockets.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

My Leaf Motor arrived!

So I originally asked for (and was told I would get) 165mm shoulders, 250mm total axle length, and 16mm nuts.
Well, it looks like they only delivered on the shoulders at 165mm...everything else is as stock, so ~220mm total length, and 14mm nuts. I'm really not too fussed though as the most important attribute I wanted changed was the shoulders, and they delivered on that...at no extra charge, so I'm happy with it anyway.
I'll let the pics tell the rest of the story.

Cheers

 

[markz]

7kg for the 1500w leaf, when the mxus 3000w v2 is only 9kg.

 

[FluxShifter]

+1

 

[Baron]

this motor is looking mighty tempting to me right now..how would it perform with a 72V 30A controller? running 20s lipo

i've read through about half thread and it seems 48V with high amps is the preferred method. just curious about 72v because it's what i have available on hand. should do around 40mph i think? any heat concerns at around 2000-2500w with this voltage? sorry if the question has been answered already, still going through the thread

 

[Cowardlyduck]

this motor is looking mighty tempting to me right now..how would it perform with a 72V 30A controller? running 20s lipo

i've read through about half thread and it seems 48V with high amps is the preferred method. just curious about 72v because it's what i have available on hand. should do around 40mph i think? any heat concerns at around 2000-2500w with this voltage? sorry if the question has been answered already, still going through the thread

Other's might be a bit more knowledgeable than me, but I think you could easily go 72V 50A with this motor if you kept an eye on the temps.
I plan on going 48V (12S LiPo) and 65A with it using active forced air cooling.

Cheers

 

[neptronix]

2000w continuous should be fine. It's ~86% efficient at that level, thus it has under 300W of heat to shed at that point, which is no big deal, unless it is maybe like 90-100 degrees outside, in which case you don't wanna bother riding in those blow-dryer-esque temperatures

I get the motor hot at ~2500W continuous after 5 miles in 70f, going up and down long hills with a peak of 4000W.

If you wanna do 72v, you want a 5T at most.. the default 4T will do 60mph on that voltage, and that's way too much for the motor.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

If you wanna do 72v, you want a 5T at most.. the default 4T will do 60mph on that voltage, and that's way too much for the motor.

I think the 4T would be ok as long as power was limited. Like I said, I think 50A would be safe with temp monitoring.
I plan to run 65A (the Adaptto Mini-E controller's limit) through mine. 65A also matches the limit Stealth used to set for the HS35xx they used to put on the Stealth Fighter, and the majority of those were fine...(although I did melt one at those levels riding in soft sand).

I just spun mine up for the first time. It's a lot quieter than the HS35/HS40 motor's I'm used to...I'm liking it already.

Cheers

 

[cwah]

Hello,

With my leafbike motor are some squeaky noise when the motor is running, like the one I use to hear on very old freewheel:

I am not sure if the noise is coming from the motor or the freewheel... and the freewheel is indeed very old.

Some notes:
- When it rains a lot, the noise tend to be much less prominent
- The noise is much stronger when I accelerate (so on load)
- The noise is less strong when I freewheel


I tried to put lots of grease on the freewheel but I still have the noise. I don't know what to do and I'm not sure if the noise is coming from:
- The freewheel
- The motor bearing

Any idea what's best to sort that out?

Thank you

 

[Cowardlyduck]

You could try poping open one of the side covers and squirting some WD40/CRC5.56 in there...it could just be a squeaky bearing. Mind you, that's not a long term solution, and eventually the bearing would need to be replaced if that's what it is.

It could also be a loose wire that's moving inside the motor under load. Best to rip it open if that's the case.

Another option is something else is squeaking due to the motor axle shifting under load...could be freewheel...could be the rim/tyre.

Hope that helps.

Cheers

 

[cwah]

aaaahhh so much to check to fix that out :/


Thanks seems like I need more work

 

[Baron]

If you wanna do 72v, you want a 5T at most.. the default 4T will do 60mph on that voltage, and that's way too much for the motor.

Wow, didn't realize the top speed would be that high at 72v. 40mph top speed is more my thing. What if I went with the 20" rim, at 72v 30a, what would the performance be like?

20" wheels are what bmx and folding bikes use, right? Although I would be using mine in a full sus mountain bike. The wheel should be around 22" with tire installed. edit: is their 20" rim actually that size or is it really something like 17" or 19"?

 

[markz]

I'd aim for 24" OD tire, so 19" moto rim would give you that if I am not mistaken.

 

[neptronix]

You don't want to do that on a full suspension mountain bike designed for 26" because it will throw the suspension and weight balance off a LOT. It will not be safe to ride. I would go with 24" and a 5T winding at the most.. you'll be in 50mph territory at 72v.

You might want a 6T.. but nobody has experience with one of those just yet. Maybe it only goes 35-38mph on 72v in a 24" wheel? would that be acceptable?

 

[markz]

You can also limit the speed if you have a Cycle Analyst too. At higher voltages you get higher torque, and higher efficiency.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

You can also limit the speed if you have a Cycle Analyst too. At higher voltages you get higher torque, and higher efficiency.

+1

I would just get a 4T and limit your speed using the controller or CA.
It's practically the same as getting a 5 or 6T then minus a small amount of PWM efficiency losses depending on your controller.

Cheers

 

[neptronix]

Yeah, you could do that, but 100% speed mode is much more efficient at the controller than constantly modulating the speed via various levels of PWM ( partial throttle modes, etc ).

On a 4T, you're still going to need around >50A on that voltage, since the motor uses more amps than volts to achieve the desired speed.
And you'll have less torque per amp inputted versus a 5T or 6T.

Always get the right winding for the job.