Leaf / leafmotor / leafbike high efficiency 1500w motor

[sendler2112]

The 5T will be easier on your battery and controller with less amps on every take off but it is alwas nice to have a little more speed than you really want rather than being just shy of what you need at full throttle.

 

[crossbreak]

phase wires will be more hot on the 4T than if using a 5T. This is what u really have to consider on a built. If u run low bat-voltage (like 48V), it makes sense to cut phase wires close to the outside of axle (even if it is 3mm phase wire) and install connectors/thicker phase wire (like 8AWG) from there - just like neptronix did beefing them up

 

[Kodin]

Yeah, phase wires will be the limiting factor here when you go to lower turn count configurations; at some point you'd likely have to swap to a custom shaft with larger ID bearings to fit your phase wires because you'd be running such high amps for a given voltage. This assumes of course the load stays the same; moving to a mid-drive configuration with further cog/chain reduction might help offset that.

 

[Kodin]

I'm tempted actually in my current build to design my shaft to not have a through-hole drilled and instead mill a slot like the upgraded MXUS shafts use. It'd definitely let me feed larger diameter phase wires through with a minimal reduction in shaft thickness. Any thoughts on this? If I include a delrin tube around the slot like the design I've seen, I can probably RTV up the wires and leverage a shaft seal as well to keep moisture and debris out.

 

[Lurkin]

I might be interested in one kodin.

Due to a frame change, I will have a wider dropout and probably require either a new motor or shaft depending on how hard it is to fit a shaft replacement.

Unfortunately, Leafmotor also send me skinny phase wires, so upgrading them at the same time with a better design could also be a plus...

How hard is it/whats the process to replace the shaft?

 

[Kodin]

In my case I got the 3mm phase wire setup, and the hole in the shaft is larger by a couple mm. In comparison, the freehub shaft they sent me was designed for 2mm phase wires and the hole is smaller. I'm just thinking it's better to forego a through-hole and put a slot instead to set the wires flat and in-line across a cut-out channel in the shaft side.


Something like one of these beautiful shafts Madin88 makes:

https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=72720&hilit=mxus+upgrade

 

[crossbreak]

the through hole thing obviously is better for sealing it for oil cooled operation though i did not try that on this specific motor. never got a "wet" motor really sealed completely. even with the hollow shaft i got issues with oil climbin up the phase wires. Still somehow this has to work out

 

[markz]

Yeah I thought the 1500W would be the obvious choice.

1 more lb for a 50% higher power rating.. there's little point to buying the 1000w

Or get a big beast q205 3000W at 12kg for max thrust and power!

1 more lb for a 50% higher power rating.. there's little point to buying the 1000w

1 more lb for a 50% higher power rating.. there's little point to buying the 1000w

it is almost 2lb or excatly 0,8kg
15% less stator width vs 11% lower weight so yes the 35mm Leaf will have higher power per weight, but rather 20-25% instead of 50%.
don't think much of the manufactuer rating..

Phase wires are easy to upgrade, I bought some 10 awg PTFE Teflon wire, I actually have more then I need as USPS wrote down the address wrong and shipped original package to Melbourne Australia, so the seller sent a 2nd package with same order and came within a few days. Then 1st order came a week later.

I think either a 3T or 4T, with upgrades phase wires and 8 or 6awg wires from just outside axle to controller, with my 18fet 65A Lyen Controller, and buy a Kelly Controller for my MXUS 3000W V2, I'm talking Kelly Controllers 150A controller so the one they rate at 350A which is a Kelly Controllers trick. Then I can reduce my voltage on the MXUS, add more Ah.

I've been trying to think of a system or way to have a quick release system for the Leaf 1500W mid-motor for security reasons. I have average components on the bike now, but I can "marr" them up to make them look old, used and abused.

Kodin - If you guys do a group thing for the shaft, depending on price I might be in.

 

[spinningmagnets]

Until Leaf ever offers a thick aluminum stator support (as a heat sponge), this Leafbike 1500W is the motor that I think will benefit most from the recent experiments with Ferro Fluid.

I agree on boosting the phase wire gauge as soon as it exits the shaft.

Stock 2mm (squared) cross section is 14-ga, factory upgraded 3mm (squared) is 12-ga, outside of axle:

5.3mm___10-ga
6.6mm___dual 12-ga
8.4mm___8-ga
10.6mm__dual 10-ga
13.3mm__6-ga

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

 

[Kodin]

This won't be a group buy thing; I'm machining my own from scratch.

 

[madin88]

what diameter does the fit between axle and stator have?

 

[Kodin]

I can't verify easily until Friday night; I'm out-of-state and don't have my motor parts with me.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

Until Leaf ever offers a thick aluminum stator support (as a heat sponge), this Leafbike 1500W is the motor that I think will benefit most from the recent experiments with Ferro Fluid.

Or fans...since almost all these motor's with the stamped steel stator support's have the same 6x 25mm holes in them, they universally accept the high speed RC ESC cooling fans which I've had great results with.
Although I would like to give FF a go...I'm just not keen on the mess.

I agree on boosting the phase wire gauge as soon as it exits the shaft.

Stock 2mm (squared) cross section is 14-ga, factory upgraded 3mm (squared) is 12-ga, outside of axle:

5.3mm__10-ga
6.6mm__dual 12-ga
8.4mm__8-ga
10.6mm__dual 10-ga
13.3mm__6-ga

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/awg-wire-gauge-d_731.html

Indeed!
I replaced the 3mm stock wires with 12AWG silicon wire, then spliced to 8AWG just outside the axle. The extra wire mass also helps suck some of the heat out of the windings.

Cheers

 

[Lurkin]

Any ideas of what wattage the 2mm wires can actually take? I'm planning to use a 1500w 5T at 48v, around 1000w.

 

[Kodin]

Should be fine for that. I'd still suggest ordering the 3mm upgrade if you can and don't have a motor yet.

 

[Lurkin]

Na, its here already. I asked for the upgrade, they didn't do it.

 

[Kodin]

Ah, fair enough.

 

[crossbreak]

Sounds liker 60A phase current (power itself actually doesn't matter here). 14AWG should be fine if you dont climb hills all day

 

[Kodin]

Lurkin, what style of side covers did they ship you? Worst-case I have a spare 3mm phase wire bundle and shaft I'll be discarding when I finish building my replacement... I'm in the process of putting accurate measurements for both styles of shaft into CAD diagrams as well as confirming bearing dimensions of both side cover styles over the next couple weeks. Once I've got those created, I won't need the original shafts anymore.

 

[Lurkin]

Thank you Kodin, that is a very kind offer.

Iwent back and remeasured them with a fresh battery in the digital vernier and calibrated to zero first. They now measure at 2.64mm on the outside (on the insulation). I imagine the inner wire is 2mm. Can you measure the thickness of yours? Just want to make sure I am not wasting your time.

I was thinking of pushing it back to Leaf if I need a shaft replacement for a wider drop out when my frame arrives, but if the postage is cheap, it might be worth grabbing your leftovers in the meantime! (I wonder what CowardlyDuck did with his?)

I have taken photos of the motor, but need to wait 48 hours for photobucket to delete my old account first. They will be up this week.

 

[Cowardlyduck]

(I wonder what CowardlyDuck did with his?)

I ordered my motor with the right shoulder width from the factory.
I did ask them to make the overall length longer, and use 16mm nuts, but they ignored that (even though they said they would do it).

I ordered my shoulders at 165mm to fit the dropout with of my Fighter. In hind site I probably could have ordered at 160mm and used washers, since it's a little tight now, but it works.

Cheers

 

[Lurkin]

I was referring to your phase wires, for some reason I thought you had replaced them?

 

[Cowardlyduck]

I was referring to your phase wires, for some reason I thought you had replaced them?

Oh, right...yes, I did replace those with 12g through the axle, the 8g outside the axle.

However my motor did come with the 3mm phase wires as ordered, but 12g silicone wire is slightly better than that, which is why I changed them still.

I actually reused the stock 3mm wires on my recumbent '1000W' Golden motor as they were the perfect fit:

I'm pretty sure the original Golden motor wires were 2mm also, and as you can see, there is quite a difference.

That being said, I personally wouldn't be upset if they didn't include the 3mm phase wires anyway since it's better to replace them with at least 12g silicone wire anyway.

Cheers

 

[Kodin]

Thank you Kodin, that is a very kind offer.

Iwent back and remeasured them with a fresh battery in the digital vernier and calibrated to zero first. They now measure at 2.64mm on the outside (on the insulation). I imagine the inner wire is 2mm. Can you measure the thickness of yours? Just want to make sure I am not wasting your time.

I was thinking of pushing it back to Leaf if I need a shaft replacement for a wider drop out when my frame arrives, but if the postage is cheap, it might be worth grabbing your leftovers in the meantime! (I wonder what CowardlyDuck did with his?)

I have taken photos of the motor, but need to wait 48 hours for photobucket to delete my old account first. They will be up this week.

Wire diameter (with insulation) is 2.83 on both wire looms I have. I think they are PTFE coated, but I'm unsure. The cable sleeve itself should say 0.2x5 3x3mm^2 or something like that if it's really 3mm wire.

 

[Lurkin]

A ha. I think I will call it the same as yours - it's probably just 0.2 error in my dodgy digital veriner calliper.

Just to clarify - the 2.83mm phase wires you have are definitely what is considered "3mm" phase wires from Leaf? If so, there's no reason for me to change as Leaf have actually supplied the correct wiring to me to start with?