Looking for some advice to put me in the right direction.

[rjc34]

Been lurking around here for a couple of weeks now, after re-starting my search for the perfect parts for my bike conversion. Originally I was completely captivated by my friend's brother's 100kph superbike, which even on super lower power mode was just a blast going around the block a couple of times. But now instead of building just for fun, I've actually got a purpose for it and thus a reason to allot some real money to it! Moving to within bike commuting distance (~9km) of my work, so instead of bussing or shelling out the dough for a car (plus insurance, gas, registration, etc etc) I thought an ebike could be a perfect substitute.

So I guess I'll start with my couple hard requirements first:
-Must have a range of at least 20km, about half being mildly hilly country road, my weight 200lbs, total ride weight (?)lbs, no pedalling. (Put no pedalling distance as I want this to be my minimum base range that I can extend through my own power)
-Must be able to cruise on level ground at 30kph

Now for the soft requirements:
-Price hopefully around $1000CDN all in, the lower the better though.
-LiFePO4 power. I'd like something I can just plug in when I get home, so that definitely rules out LiPo.
-Rear wheel motor (this is really a hard requirement, as my bike has front suspension forks)
-Battery mountable on rear bag rack.

Now for what I've been looking it, it seems like my current front-runner candidate is buying a MAC 500W rear kit from Cell_Man. As for batteries, I'm pretty lost. I'm know CM's 39V batteries are very high quality, but I wonder how many aH's I'd need to get my 20-25km range, without blowing my budget. I'm also in Ottawa, Ontario, and would hopefully like to have all the parts for this thing as early in may as my budget would reasonably allow (so no 6-week free shipping).

I'd also at some point (either when I buy it, or later down the road) like to pick up a CycleAnalyst, so preferably the kit would include a controller capable of just connecting right up.

Thanks for any and all help!

 

[MadRhino]

Buy the kit from Ebike.ca if you want it quick in Canada
You will pay a little more but with good service and support

Your requirements are minimal, any of their kits will do.

 

[el_walto]

I'm happy with the cell_man center triangle battery pack. Fits well for large hard tail bikes and keeps the center of gravity low enough. I found that batteries mounted on top of a rear rack really screw with a bikes handling ability. Not sure it's going to meet your budget though with all your other parts.

 

[rjc34]

Buy the kit from Ebike.ca if you want it quick in Canada
You will pay a little more but with good service and support

Your requirements are minimal, any of their kits will do.

The only problem is that even with the cheapest kit and battery I'll be $250 over my max, and that's not even factoring in shipping.

I'm happy with the cell_man center triangle battery pack. Fits well for large hard tail bikes and keeps the center of gravity low enough. I found that batteries mounted on top of a rear rack really screw with a bikes handling ability. Not sure it's going to meet your budget though with all your other parts.

Yeah, that's the big catch for all this stuff. As much as I'd love a triangular frame battery, they're just a bit rich for my blood right now. As for weight distribution, I may just end up doing what my friend's brother does and mount the battery in my backpack.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, you can also factor in that from Grin Cyclery, you get the best ebike kit customer service in the world, and the kit includes a CA if I'm not mistaken.

So your budget is not so off. You want it china cheap, but right NOW! I don't quite know what to say, except you will just have to wait if the budget squeaks that bad. Bear in mind, you will save a ton o $$ if you don't have to have a car at all.

Cheapest way to go would be Cellmans Muxus direct drive kit, and a 36v 15 ah pingbattery. The battery won't take 6 weeks. Perhaps if you hunt for it, you can find a cheaper motor kit off ebay or something. A few ship from the USA, that might be quicker than cellman.

My advice would be to get the motor from Grin, and the 36v 15 ah ping, or a 48v 15 ah ping if you need more speed. 15 ah will be enough battery to have your range, and a bit extra once in a while for a longer ride or the windy day.

 

[MadRhino]

Yep

It can be good
It can be quick
I can be cheap

Most of the time you have to choose one, and are lucky if you can have two of those options

Where are you in Canada?

 

[SamTexas]

Geez!

A $1,000CND is not enough? It's way more than necessary! The OP requirements are so minimal: 20km range, 30kph on flat.
$318 for 36V, 10Ah Ping battery
$060 Used 20A controller http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=37926
$150 Used 9C 28xx. None available right now, but I see at least one every month in the "Used for sale" section
$020 Throttle from Ebay
----------
$548 total (excluding shipping of the Ping battery)

That should give him plenty left for other optional things like ebrake levers and a cycle analyst. And he would still have $$ left to upgrade to the 15Ah 36V Ping battery.

Or may be I'm missing something.

 

[rjc34]

Alright, so some revised expectations. No problem increasing the wait until mid may or start of June. As long as the range and speed stay within or above my requirements. I could also see spending a couple hundred above my budget (~$1250 all in).

As for my location, I'm in Ottawa, Ontario.

As for the muxus 36v 500w dd kit, are the savings against the MAC 500w geared kit worth the savings?

I think overall it might be better to buy both the motor kit and battery pack from the same place to save on shipping. How would cell man's 39v 9.6 or 11.5ah packs perform in regards to general distance and flat speed with the mucus 350w geared, 500w direct, and MAC 500w geared 8t or 10t?

Thanks again for all the advice guys!

 

[dogman dan]

Muxus dd motor, which is basicly the same as a 9 continent will fit your requirements. The Mac has features the dd doesn't, like an internal freewheel. Buy the 15 ah ping, and you won't need to pedal with the motor off, negating that advantage of the mac.

You could get away with the 10 ah ping, by riding a bit slow and using less power. You will tire of that in about, oh, 3 days. So get the 36v 15 ah ping. Mac or Muxus doesn't matter that much except for the budget.

36v 15 ah ping will get you 25k range, at 35 kph, using the muxus or 9 c. Either motor will take on the mild hills easily at 36v.

One thing in you plan does pose a problem. The bigger the battery you have on a rear rack the worse your bike will handle if it also has the rear hubmotor. So that would be one reason to choose a 10 ah battery.

Does your bike have space in the triangle? if so, carry the battery there.

 

[rjc34]

Muxus dd motor, which is basicly the same as a 9 continent will fit your requirements. The Mac has features the dd doesn't, like an internal freewheel. Buy the 15 ah ping, and you won't need to pedal with the motor off, negating that advantage of the mac.

You could get away with the 10 ah ping, by riding a bit slow and using less power. You will tire of that in about, oh, 3 days. So get the 36v 15 ah ping. Mac or Muxus doesn't matter that much except for the budget.

36v 15 ah ping will get you 25k range, at 35 kph, using the muxus or 9 c. Either motor will take on the mild hills easily at 36v.

One thing in you plan does pose a problem. The bigger the battery you have on a rear rack the worse your bike will handle if it also has the rear hubmotor. So that would be one reason to choose a 10 ah battery.

Does your bike have space in the triangle? if so, carry the battery there.

Alright, so I've been trying to narrow my options down for the past while. I've decided to split it up into options for the motor kit, and options for the battery.

For the motor kit, so far the front runner is the Grin Cyclery 9c 2807 kit, as it comes with the CA, and everything works together as it should. Express shipping at ~$36 is very nice as well. The other option is the muxus kit from cell_man you suggested. I'll probably e-mail him tonight or tomorrow to get an estimate on what it would cost with the $175 kit, CA, and thumb throttle swapped for a half-twist grip. (Assuming what I read about CM selling CAs but not listing them on the site is true).

As for batteries, I guess I'm almost certainly going with the Ping 36V 15ah. With shipping it'll cost me $508 up front, and whatever else in duties/fees/taxes. I've read a couple threads saying he marks the value very low (like $100) to keep the taxes and duties down, or someone else even said he marked it as a 'sample' so no taxes/duties needed to be paid. I spent a bit of time looking at various other batteries from other places, but it seems the quality stuff is more expensive, and the lesser stuff (from places like elifebike.com and BMSbattery.com), but from what I've read about them, I don't think the savings are worth getting a much inferior pack with a potentially shoddy BMS, insane shipping prices and waits, as well as non-communication.

So I guess the only question remaining is the potential for the muxus kit being cheaper after air shipping/taxes/duties/CA/etc high enough to warrant asking, or should I just plan to get what's up there now?

 

[dogman dan]

If it still fits into your budget, the Grin customer service is worth every penny. If nothing else, just get the CA straight from the man who invented and perfected it, at Grin. If your CA should have a problem, it will be grin cs that fixes it anyway. Besides, you may need a few small things from grin in any case, like spacer washers, c washers, or torque arms.

 

[John in CR]

With that kind of budget find something used and cheap. CA's are great, but at well over 10% of total cost invest it in more battery instead.

 

[rjc34]

If it still fits into your budget, the Grin customer service is worth every penny. If nothing else, just get the CA straight from the man who invented and perfected it, at Grin. If your CA should have a problem, it will be grin cs that fixes it anyway. Besides, you may need a few small things from grin in any case, like spacer washers, c washers, or torque arms.

Alright, so 9C kit from Grin it is!

Looks like I've got everything set then. Hope to be ordering within a week!

 

[rjc34]

If it still fits into your budget, the Grin customer service is worth every penny. If nothing else, just get the CA straight from the man who invented and perfected it, at Grin. If your CA should have a problem, it will be grin cs that fixes it anyway. Besides, you may need a few small things from grin in any case, like spacer washers, c washers, or torque arms.

Ok, so after talking again with my friend's ebike guru brother, I think he's got me convinced LiPo is the way to go power-wise, and he has a motor he's looking to get rid of. Depending on what happens, I may just go ahead and buy the motor kit from ebikes.ca anyway, but LiPo is seriously looking like a great option.

Currently what I'm looking at is getting 9 of these 4S1P Turnigy hard packs for $21.50 each, and making a ~45V 15ah pack.

I do like the fact that these packs allow me to make a very modular pack that I can easily reconfigure or add to if/when I need to. If I want more speed, buy another 3 packs to make it 16S3P instead of 12S3P, or if I want more range, add those 3 packs to make it 12S4P. Basically though, I'm reasonably lost in regards to what kind of charging equipment I need, how I charge the pack, how I'd wire it all together to end up with a single plug, etc.