Looking to add a CA3 to my new e-bike it is a “1500 watt” PUJH with a 48V battery and JH controller.

[sdp1234]

Looking to add a CA3 to my new e-bike it is a “1500 watt” PUJH with a 48V battery and JH controller.


I’m new to e-bikes but have a good bit of past experience with electric and electronics. Built several tube based guitar amps from salvaged organ’s

Just reading into e-bike technology. My bike is powerful but it needs a more configurable system.

 

[amberwolf]

What specifically do you need the CA to do for you, in detail?

To know which CA to get, and how you need to wire it and configure it, you have to know what you want it to do.

It also matters what your specific system is, and how it is wired, and how it works. For instance, if you need to change controller settings, you'll have to use that controller's specific method and hardware / software for doing that, because the CA can't do any of that.

 

[E-HP]

Looking to add a CA3 to my new e-bike it is a “1500 watt” PUJH with a 48V battery and JH controller.


I’m new to e-bikes but have a good bit of past experience with electric and electronics. Built several tube based guitar amps from salvaged organ’s

Just reading into e-bike technology. My bike is powerful but it needs a more configurable system.

The CA can perform many functions, but Im not sure it’s worth the investment to add to your bike. Are you saying the bike is too powerful? The CA only controls the throttle signal going to your controller. It can only reduce power, not increase it, and doesn’t communicate or add any programming capabilities to the controller. Is your bike too powerful to handle (wheelies out of control when you use the throttle)? Do you want PAS to be more tuneable or to add a torque sensing PAS? Do you have a motor temp sensor and need to reduce power when the motor gets too hot? Any of these might be good cases for investing in a CA for a factory ebike, or if you just want to see more data. It’s great when building a DIY system from scratch, but less valuable for prebuilt factory e-bikes.

 

[sdp1234]

The PAS is too powerful. I want to be able to fine tune the amount of assist and/or throttle in order to reduce the assist at different pas settings. I’m also kind of a data geek and tweeker. Thanks for the reply. I’m out camping now but I’ll provide better detail when I’m in front of a real keyboard. A couple hundred to make it more tunable would be worth it for me but I want to understand more about the technology before I move forward

 

[E-HP]

The PAS is too powerful. I want to be able to fine tune the amount of assist and/or throttle in order to reduce the assist at different pas settings. I’m also kind of a data geek and tweeker. Thanks for the reply. I’m out camping now but I’ll provide better detail when I’m in front of a real keyboard. A couple hundred to make it more tunable would be worth it for me but I want to understand more about the technology before I move forward

Sadly they no longer offer the model that would be easiest to adapt to your bike. The two that could work are the CA-SA or the CA-DPS. But both of these use a wheel sensor for speed rather than the speed sensor inside the geared hub motor. Both support an external shunt, which you will need, and the CA-SA is likely best of you’re not running over 50A continuous. If they still made the CA-DP, that would work best since you could use the motors speed sensor, but it’s discontinued.
You will also need GRIN’s PAS sensor since the CA uses a non standard voltage for PAS. It won’t be plug n play, so crimpers or soldering may be involved.

 

[sdp1234]

I thought I read in one of GRINs documents that a DPS model can be converted to DP model. Probably getting ahead of myself there…

 

[E-HP]

I thought I read in one of GRINs documents that a DPS model can be converted to DP model. Probably getting ahead of myself there…

Good to know. I’ll need another one at some point.

 

[sdp1234]

How To Add A Cycle Analyst Connector To A Controller

www.ebikeschool.com

This looks helpful. I’m still working to understand DP vs dps versions

 

[E-HP]

How To Add A Cycle Analyst Connector To A Controller

www.ebikeschool.com

This looks helpful. I’m still working to understand DP vs dps versions

Every input to the CA DP can be accessed without opening the controller; batt +, batt -, shunt +, shunt -, speed, throttle. If you have an external speed sensor, that would be the speed signal. If you have a direct drive motor, the speed signal would be any one the the three hall sensor conductors. The exception would be if you know the value of the shunt inside of your controller, then you could access that by opening it and running the two conductors out of the housing.
Not sure if the CA connector on the DPS model has the input conductor for speed or not.

 

[sdp1234]

what is not making sense to me yet is the role of the original display yolin YL81F? Can it be eliminated?

 

[E-HP]

what is not making sense to me yet is the role of the original display yolin YL81F? Can it be eliminated?

It depends on what the default behavior/settings of the controller are, when it operates without a display. Specifically, whether it provides full throttle and full speed in the default mode.
Turning on the controller without the display involves supplying battery level voltage to the "Controller power wire". In the diagram below, that can be achieved by shorting the red and blue conductors on the controller side display connector.
After powering on the controller, you can check whether the throttle provides full power or not.

​

 

[amberwolf]

what is not making sense to me yet is the role of the original display yolin YL81F? Can it be eliminated?

Does the display perform any functions for you?

If you use any controls on the display to do anything, then you will require the display on the system, even if it isn't on the handelbars, so that you can still use those controls. For instance, if your controller starts in mode zero with no assist until you manually change the assist level you will have to retain the display to do this)


If the system can operate without the display by jumpering the "keyswitch/ignition", and you can live with wahtever the controller "headless" defaults are, then you can go with out the display.

Remember, the CA is not a controller display, and does not communicate with teh controller in anywway, and it cannot change settings of any kind in the controller,

All the CA does is take all the inputs you feed it from your controls (PAS (cadence/torque) throttle, ebrake) and sensors (temperature, wheelspeed, current, voltage, etc), process them via the settings you have setup for them in it, and output a single throttle signal to tell a controller to do whatever it is that specific cotnroller does with that specific throttle input.

 

[amberwolf]

This looks helpful. I’m still working to understand DP vs dps versions

DP jus tmeans directt plug, meaning the controller already has (or you add) a connector with the required wiring to plug the CA into it and use the controller's internal shunt, wheelspeed sensor, etc, and directly feed the throttle to the controller board internally.

S just adds an external speed sensor connection so that doesn't come from the controller.

SA is stand alone, so no DP, no plug to the controlelr board, just throttle connector to connect to the controller's normal throttle input. Then it uses an external shunt wired between battery and controller to monitor current and get operating voltage/power. And it has the wheelspeed senosr, since it can't get that from the controller.

Any version of CA can be rewired to operate in any of these ways.

 

[amberwolf]

The PAS is too powerful. I want to be able to fine tune the amount of assist and/or throttle in order to reduce the assist at different pas settings.

If you use the CA for this, you won't be using the assist levels on the controller anymore, because the PAS sensor will now go to the CA, not the ocntroller. The controller will then have a throttle input from the CA.(fi your controller has no throttle input and/or can't operate without the PAS sensor input, you'll have to change the controller for one that does).

Most controllers I've seen use throttle as a full override of the assist level, so it doesn't matter what assist level is chosen, the CA owuld have full input control range of the sysdtem at all times.


Unlike almost all controllers, the CA doesn't need to use assist levels, becuase it's PAS is not on/off--it actually uses the cadence to directly control the assist amount. (while most controllers just turn the assist on at the full amount of the chosen level if you pedal at all, not caring how fast you pedal)

So you just tune the CA settings to operate the system the way you want.

It has three presets you can use to change some of the limits to get a form of "assist level', but it inst' really necessary for most systems / usages. (For my SB Cruiser trike I have setup three speed limits on mine, 5, 10, 20mph, but I don't use them anymore, leaving it on 20, because the cadence control works perfectly well for doing it just like on a regular pedal bike).

I’m also kind of a data geek and tweeker.

In that case, you may want to get the Analogger (or build one from an MCU) to capture all the realtime data from the CA's serial output. You can use that with the Grin Trip Analyzer to get a fair bit of info about your rides and usages to refine your setup.

There is a long thread with info about various versions of the CAv3 firmware and options if you have a lot of reading time.

Cycle Analyst V3 preview and first beta release

Here is a link to the now unofficial user guide and other documents and thread index by Teklektik http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=571345#p571345 and the wiki http://www.endless-sphere.com/w/index.php/Cycle_Analyst_v3_Setup and the official CAv3 info page...

endless-sphere.com