Loud freewheel & Truing

[TMaster]

I just bought a 48V 1000W rear kit. After spending days on here I think it's a 9C motor. It has a 5 speed cassette, but it is twice as loud as my other bikes quality freewheels. The shifters are 8 speed, but I will just adjust the movment for 5.

My questions are:
Is it possible to quiet down the cheapy freewheel it came with? I have a chainwhip, but I'm not sure what freewheel tool I will need yet. I'm guessing this style of freewheel is not like my newer bikes? If its possible i quiet down with some new grease then I will try it. Otherwise what is a better alternative freewheel that will fit?

The wheel needs truing bigtime. I guess you get what you pay for, although I just ordered a $75 truing stand and $55 spoke tensioner so I can do it myself. I'm pretty sure the setup has the motor centered with the rim? So going to a larger 7 or 8 speed cassette I would need to re-spoke the wheel to offset it? I just want to confirm these things. Thanks

 

[biohazardman]

You can put some oil in the freewheel. I have noticed some seem to sound and act almost dry when new. You will need to mod/drill out a freewheel remover tool to make it fit the larger axles used on the bike motors. The freewheel tools are hardened so easier to use a Dremel with a grinding wheel to enlarge the hole. A bit of werq but makes them useful anyway. You really don’t need the wheel truing stand although they are nice to have. I just tape a pencil to the frame with the eraser as close to the rim as I can get it. This has done just fine for 40 years or so. I have used 30wt and 20-50 in my freewheels to quiet them down to almost inaudible. Just a drop or two at a time, in the opening between the moving parts, then spin the freewheel to get it inside. Don't forget the grease or anti-seize on the threads of the hub before you re-install the freewheel. OOOPS did i forget to mention you can likely get the oil in with out removing hthe freewheel? Yup it is so just lay the bike on it's side drip it in and spin the wheel spinning to work it in.

 

[Zoot Katz]

AFAIK, all hub motors use thread on freewheels.
Unless somebody installed an antique it's probably a standard Shimano spline puller you need.
It's different than the lock ring puller used on cassette style freehubs.

When you remove the freewheel just clean it out with solvent if it feels gritty and lubricate it with a medium weight oil.
You can adjust the cone with a pin spanner. That might help make it quieter.
The freewheel will sound louder anyway because it's resonating off the motor side cover.
A regular bicycle freewheel too sounds louder when there's a metal pie plate spoke protector installed.
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/freewheels.html

 

[deardancer3]

Welcome to the E-S!!.

Your 8 speed shifter will not work well with your 5 speed cluster, the 5 speed spacing is different than the 8 speed shifter. 4.8mm vs 5.3mm --- http://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html
7 speed freewheels are 5.0mm, and i have used them on 8 speed shifters with only minor issues if set up well.

8 speed freewheels are available but, 7 speeds fits better sometimes and have more gearing choices. If your bike has a steel frame, you can cold set for a bit of frame bending, but dont do it on aluminum. 7 speed freewheels can be had with decent quality from several makers.

If a standard freewheel remover wont work on your oversized axle, Bicycle research makes a series of removers with an oversized hole:
http://www.bicycleresearchtools.com/wheelt.html#anchor270825

Call around and see which LBS carries them, Quality Bicycle Products is the distributor-- here is the rest of the distributors http://www.bicycleresearchtools.com/distrib.html

one of many articles on Wheel truing:
http://www.sheldonbrown.com/tooltips/truing.html

If you have an 8 speed dropout, then you might be able to make your motor with 7 speed fit in your dropouts. measure the dropout spacing to ensure it will all work and where you wheel should sit if centered. mIght need a cheap set of calipers for measuring.

If you can get the wheel close, it will be worth your while to have a competent wheel man do the final on it for ~$25. One broken spoke will cost much more than that.

 

[Zoot Katz]

. . .
If a standard freewheel remover wont work on your oversized axle, Bicycle research makes a series of removers with an oversized hole:
http://www.bicycleresearchtools.com/wheelt.html#anchor270825

Call around and see which LBS carries them, Quality Bicycle Products is the distributor-- here is the rest of the distributors http://www.bicycleresearchtools.com/distrib.html
. . .

ebikes.ca has 244 of them in stock for $12.00 each.

 

[TMaster]

Thanks for all the info guys! I think I will just keep the 5 speed on for now; then after a while re-spoke for an 8 speed. The free wheel tool that works for my newer shimano Hubs seems to be the same for the freewheel on the 9C. But Yes it does need to be drilled out, or I can shell out for a new. I have a CNC machine so its no problem. I took a few pics. Also the hub axle spacers are not the same length. Even though both the spacers are flush up against the bearings on either side, one is 0.030" longer. It was either poor quality or it's soppose to be like that. The wheel was kinda tight fitting in, I had to spread the Triangle slightly. I think I will mill or lathe the longer one down so they are both the same size and the hub motor will be in the exact center for Truing the wheel. Thanks for the links, I will have to pickup the Disc brake adapter someday. My frame accepts disc or V-brake.

 

[biohazardman]

Thanks for all the info guys! I think I will just keep the 5 speed on for now; then after a while re-spoke for an 8 speed. The free wheel tool that works for my newer shimano Hubs seems to be the same for the freewheel on the 9C. But Yes it does need to be drilled out, or I can shell out for a new. I have a CNC machine so its no problem. I took a few pics. Also the hub axle spacers are not the same length. Even though both the spacers are flush up against the bearings on either side, one is 0.030" longer. It was either poor quality or it's soppose to be like that. The wheel was kinda tight fitting in, I had to spread the Triangle slightly. I think I will mill or lathe the longer one down so they are both the same size and the hub motor will be in the exact center for Truing the wheel. Thanks for the links, I will have to pickup the Disc brake adapter someday. My frame accepts disc or V-brake. View attachment 1

I don't think that is the right remover tool to start with see pics above for what you want. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

[Zoot Katz]

. . . . It was either poor quality or it's soppose to be like that. The wheel was kinda tight fitting in, I had to spread the Triangle slightly. I think I will mill or lathe the longer one down so they are both the same size and the hub motor will be in the exact center for Truing the wheel. . . .

Be careful that in milling down the axle length you don't lose clearace for your 11T cog at the dropout.

 

[dontsendbubbamail]

My questions are:
Is it possible to quiet down the cheapy freewheel it came with? I have a chainwhip, but I'm not sure what freewheel tool I will need yet. I'm guessing this style of freewheel is not like my newer bikes? If its possible i quiet down with some new grease then I will try it. Otherwise what is a better alternative freewheel that will fit?

The wheel needs truing bigtime. I guess you get what you pay for, although I just ordered a $75 truing stand and $55 spoke tensioner so I can do it myself. I'm pretty sure the setup has the motor centered with the rim? So going to a larger 7 or 8 speed cassette I would need to re-spoke the wheel to offset it? I just want to confirm these things. Thanks

The noise comes from the paws falling off the vertical edge of the ramps. Taking the freewheel apart and lubing it with a light grease will soften the noise. This has worked for me in the past. Be careful when you take it apart, because there are lots and lots of small ball bearings.

You should be able to redish the wheel without having to respoke. It all depends on the spoke length. You don't want more then 3 or 4 threads showing on the freewheel side. True first and then dish.

Bubba

 

[Chalo]

I just bought a 48V 1000W rear kit. After spending days on here I think it's a 9C motor. It has a 5 speed cassette, but it is twice as loud as my other bikes quality freewheels. The shifters are 8 speed, but I will just adjust the movment for 5.

As has already been pointed out, 5 speed and 8 speed are not compatible. If you want to index five speeds, use a five speed index shifter. I think SRAM offers one, a twist grip, cheap.

Try oiling your freewheel. This can often be done from the outboard end, by drizzling oil onto the edge between the rotating part and the fixed part of the freewheel while spinning it. But it's often easier to do it from the back side.

The wheel needs truing bigtime. I guess you get what you pay for, although I just ordered a $75 truing stand and $55 spoke tensioner so I can do it myself. I'm pretty sure the setup has the motor centered with the rim? So going to a larger 7 or 8 speed cassette I would need to re-spoke the wheel to offset it?

Don't offset the rim if you can possibly avoid it. Your wheel is all bent up in part because it has such low bracing angle between the spokes and the plane of the wheel. Offsetting the rim to one side will only reduce the bracing angle on one side, perhaps to nil. Don't do it.

E-bike wheels are notoriously crappy, when really they should be built to a higher standard than normal bike wheels. I have yet to see one that was of better overall quality than the junk that gets sold at department stores. The fact that your wheel has not held up well isn't your fault. Don't do a haphazard job of reconfiguring your wheel now, though, or that will be your fault!

I work at Eastside Pedal Pushers on E. 5th Street. I have many years of experience working on normal bikes, electric bikes, one-of-a-kind bikes and trikes, and other pedal-powered machines. I have built lots and lots of wheels, both ordinary and exotic. I have useful tools like spoke tension gauges and dishing gauges that could be of great value to you in this effort. Contact me by private message or email and I can arrange to take a look at your wheel and tell you what I can do for it, or at least give you some valuable advice for doing your own work on it.

Chalo

 

[TMaster]

I plan on keeping the 5 speed for now. I have some pedro's synthetic clear grease thats works wonders for bearings and headsets. I would rather clean the freewheel out and put that grease in there. Oil is runny and tends to come out eventually. Although it is a temping quick fix.

I plan on truing the wheel myself, but If I can't I will take it in to a bike shop around here. I acutally live north of Austin. Truing wheels or building them is about the only thing I haven't done on bikes. I've been mountain biking for about 6 years and I have most of the tools and have done just about everything. The truing stand I ordered and spoke tension meter should be here next week.

Chalo, thanks I will let you know if I need advice or any help.

 

[Chalo]

I plan on keeping the 5 speed for now. I have some pedro's synthetic clear grease thats works wonders for bearings and headsets. I would rather clean the freewheel out and put that grease in there. Oil is runny and tends to come out eventually. Although it is a temping quick fix.

Don't use grease on freewheel pawls; it can make them stick down too firmly for the tiny return springs to lift them all the way up again, and then they'll slip under load. (Greasing the bearing balls only is OK.) Oiling isn't just a quick fix-- it's the right thing to do.

Also note that there are about one point eight million tiny balls in a typical freewheel bearing, and as soon as you pull the freewheel apart they tend to scatter in all directions. No shop I know will service a freewheel beyond flushing it with lube, because taking them apart is such a pain in the butt that replacing them for $15-20 is cheaper than charging a fair rate to rebuild them.

Freewheel bearings are a special case, because they only turn when they are under no load. When a load is applied, the pawls lock up and the bearing stops turning. Thus you want to keep some oil in there to prevent corrosion, but there is no need to provide high quality lubrication. This principle is why freewheel bearings can be a bit loose and sloppy, rough, noisy, etc., without causing premature failure or any ill effects in use.

Chalo