Mars Motors?

[Jay64]

After doing some research, it seems to me that the Mars motor is on par, or close to on par, with the etek and Perm motors. Is this correct? They seem to have the same hp claims, are there any differences between them? I do know that the etek was a brushed motor and the other two are brushless. Any others?

 

[safe]

Brushless Mars Motor is 83% peak motor efficiency.

Etek is 88% peak motor efficiency.

The Mars is a "clone" and not quite as good... (as far as I can tell)

The PMG 132 is "known" as the best out there right now. (from what I know... I don't use these motors because they are illegal for bicycles)

 

[TylerDurden]

I don't use these motors because they are illegal for bicycles

You don't use them because you can't afford them.

You can't even afford a computer that runs excel.

 

[vanilla ice]

To be fair, doesn't MS office cost as much as an etek?

OOO FTW!

 

[Ypedal]

the Mars Brushless vs Brushed Etek are 2 different animals.

The controller for the Brushless motor is what's so darn expensive and hard to find.

The Etek and Perm motors can use readily available brushed high-amp controllers.

 

[Jay64]

So the Perms have better efficiency then mars. It seems to me that the difference in cost seems to out weigh the difference in efficiency. I've seen Perms for $900 and Mars for $350 with only a difference of 3% efficiency. The extra $500 could be spent on more batteries or a better type of battery to make up for the 3%.

I'm looking at possible motors for my mini dirt bikes. They currently pull about 6 hp, and I want a goal of about 17hp peak. So these motors seem like they would work well for that.
I also have an old CBR600 hurricane that has a blown motor. I have seen some Kawasaki ninja builds that use the etek motor. Would the Mars motor be sufficient for a test build. Again, I like performance, but I don't want to blow the bank while doing research.

I posted this thread in the e-bike technical because it seems like a technical question to me, and there isn't any other tech forums. Also, if I get it, I might try and throw it on my ezip just for shitsNgrins.

 

[safe]

You can't even afford a computer that runs excel.

I have money, but I like to be cheap. It's sort of a game to me... see how little I can spend and still do the things I (really) need to do.

Due to inheritance issues I've begun receiving additional funds (as if I needed it ) so the money situation is "good".

My family is known as having a "Cheap Gene"... it's in my DNA.

 

[Jay64]

the Mars Brushless vs Brushed Etek are 2 different animals.

The controller for the Brushless motor is what's so darn expensive and hard to find.

The Etek and Perm motors can use readily available brushed high-amp controllers.

I actually can't find any Etek motors for sale anyways, so I guess a better question would just be how does the Mars compare to the perm? Is that still two different animals? If so, in what way?

 

[Jay64]

You can't even afford a computer that runs excel.

I have money, but I like to be cheap. It's sort of a game to me... see how little I can spend and still do the things I (really) need to do.

Due to inheritance issues I've begun receiving additional funds (as if I needed it ) so the money situation is "good".

My family is known as having a "Cheap Gene"... it's in my DNA.

Well, if you have money that you aren't using, then sponsor me as an electric motorcycle racer. I'll go over to Europe and compete in the FIM series and bring the trophy home to the USA. 8) :lol:

 

[safe]

I've seen Perms for $900 and Mars for $350 with only a difference of 3% efficiency.

It's a cheaper clone motor. The controllers are more expensive though. Hard to say... maybe buy the cheap motor and a good Sevcon Programmable controller and then you could get a better result just because you have more control over it. (everything we talk about like Armature Current Limiting and much, much more is built into the better controllers)

 

[safe]

Well, if you have money that you aren't using, then sponsor me as an electric motorcycle racer. I'll go over to Europe and compete in the FIM series and bring the trophy home to the USA. 8) :lol:

You never know...

I think there's needs to be certain things like:

1. Racing in classes I care about. (like Electric Bicycle Road Racing)

2. Some serious competion to worry about.

3. A company behind me that want's to see it's product win at the races. (so my ideas for electric bicycle racing machines need to have gone "big time")

...so there are a lot of "if's" to get past first.

 

[Jay64]

The controller for the Mars is more expensive then the controller for the Perm? Aren't they both brushless?

 

[safe]

The controller for the Mars is more expensive then the controller for the Perm? Aren't they both brushless?

The Perms get their high efficiency while using brushes... (they just built them well... I mean come on... they're Germans... what else would you expect? )

 

[Ypedal]

Etek - Perm - MYxx = Brushed

Mars = brushless

8)

 

[TylerDurden]

To be fair, doesn't MS office cost as much as an etek?

OOO FTW!

I use OpenOffice. Safe's computer cant' run it. (too slow, no ram)

 

[Jay64]

Oh, ok. That explains a lot. I was under the impression that perms were brushless replacement of the etek. So the etek and perm use brush controllers and the Mars has to use a brushless controller. That's good to know when trying to figure out total costs.

 

[Malcolm]

The only controller available for the Mars brushless was the Sevcon Millipak, which is rated to 48V. Electric Motorsports was only able to get the motor to pull 200A from this controller when they tested this combo. Although the Etek is a brushed motor and the Mars is brushless, they share the same basic construction and have the same Kv (rpm per volt rating), so it seems likely that the Mars could be run at higher voltage and current, like the Etek, although I don't know of anyone having done this yet.
One of the big advantages of brushless motors is that the controller should only fail safe, i.e. the motor won't work if the controller fails. There is the possibility that if a brushed controller fails it can suddenly supply full power to the motor. I just had this happen with a little MY1018 motor and it ate the arm of my shirt before I managed to cut the power – scary!

A new brushless controller is being brought out by Kelly in the next month or so that is rated at 300A and 72V. Steven Li from Kelly controls has contributed to this thread http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=3000&start=0. All we need now is a guinea pig to try out this combination.

 

[fechter]

Those new Kelly controllers look like they would work well with a Mars motor. Way less expensive too. I think a Mars would be much better at 72v - but it might fly apart.

 

[iberkt]

The only controller available for the Mars brushless was the Sevcon Millipak, which is rated to 48V.

I was wondering (maybee fetcher or one of those guys could chime in) is it possible to run the Mars brushless motor off of a Crystalyte brushless controller?

 

[fechter]

I was wondering (maybee fetcher or one of those guys could chime in) is it possible to run the Mars brushless motor off of a Crystalyte brushless controller?

Sure, I don't see why not. With a modified one, it should work well. The Mars motor can handle way more than 100 amps for a short burst.

 

[iberkt]

I was wondering (maybee fetcher or one of those guys could chime in) is it possible to run the Mars brushless motor off of a Crystalyte brushless controller?

Sure, I don't see why not. With a modified one, it should work well. The Mars motor can handle way more than 100 amps for a short burst.

That's what I thought. It would be a cheaper solution comparred to the Kelly controller.

 

[Jay64]

Anybody got good info on these Crystalyte brushless controllers? I have been hearing people reference them a lot on this forum, but I tried googling it and couldn't find any good info. Also, for comparison, anyone got a good link for info on a brushed controller that would be good for running a PERM?

 

[TylerDurden]

The experts on Crystalyte are on these boards. See the sticky.

Here's a good brush controller:
http://www.alltraxinc.com/Products_AXE.html

 

[Jay64]

That sticky is a long thread, so I haven't had a chance to read all the way through it, but it appears that it is more for upgrading or fixing your Crystalyte controller, not how much they cost or where to buy them from. Or what the stock power is.

 

[albie]

you can get the modified crystalyte controllers from ebikes.ca