max ams goldenmotor 1000W

[pako77]

Hi everybody,
Question: does anyone tried how many amps a goldenmotor 1000W (rear) can handle for a few seconds? My setup is: goldenmotor 48V 1000W,kelly controller 72V 100A, lipo battery 74V 13,2Ah.
Now I have limited the motor amps at 60Amps. I didn't change the wiring. I pushed at my work more then 80amps (RMS) through a 20cm long phase wire from my motor, and it is getting hot quickly, but after 10sec you can still hold the wire in your hand without burning it, so I think the wire is not a problem. But what about the motor itself?
Thank you.

 

[brinkster]

by motor amps you mean phase amps? don't know about that but i am pushing 100V, 120A peak through that motor. with a modified 12fet from lyen.
it gets really hot after a couple of minutes of full throttle and stops...

 

[brinkster]

i mean battery amps measured with am CA

 

[pako77]

by motor amps you mean phase amps? don't know about that but i am pushing 100V, 120A peak through that motor. with a modified 12fet from lyen.

Yes, I mean phase amps. But if your batterycurrent is 120A , then your phase current is at least 120A.
Today I did some more tests with the phasewire. At 100A it is hot (I think about 80 degree celsius, maybe less, I haven't measure it) within 5 seconds. If I push 200A through it, it is hot after a second. The windings inside are thinner (?) and much longer than the wire that I use, so with 120A it should be REALLY hot, even if it is just for a few seconds.
So I am really amazed that you can draw that much current. I thought the critical amps through the motor was about 80A? You are talking about a goldenmotor 48V 1000W, right?

it gets really hot after a couple of minutes of full throttle and stops...

No your kidding

 

[pako77]

also posted on the goldenmotor forum...

With the motorcurrent limited on 40A, I got 65km/h with a rather big headwind (deliver about 150W-200W myself and sitting low on the bars). With the current on 60A, the accelaration is WAY bigger than on 40A, so with no wind and 60A, it should be far more than 80km/h.
I haven't tested the max speed, because I'm scared that I burn the wirings and destroy the dropouts of my bike (and hurt myself or worse...). But tomorrow I am going to make a torque-arm so that I don't have to worry about that.
I can go to 100A motorcurrent, but I want to know if I can use the full potention of the controller without destroying the motor instantly. The test phase wire I pushed 180A through it for a few seconds and it getting hot (60-80 degree celsius), but for a few seconds it is fine I think.
Please give me more information.
More to come...

 

[brinkster]

well i bought the motor from DEVI-comfort in the netherlands, i ordered the 48V 1000W, the motor i got says 48V 750W. i asked him about that and he said that the housings are all the same and that the stator is 1000W. the top speed at 100V with 26inch wheels is a disapointing 60km/h
i left the motor completely stock, only connection removed and soldered to the 12fet lyen (stock software just soldered shunt and beefed up traces)

i do have some pictures, but the extensions are not allowed

 

[brinkster]

View attachment 3
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i am working on a hs3540, drilled, halls, temp. sensor mounted in a 24inch downhill rim, top speed should be much better

 

[pako77]

well i bought the motor from DEVI-comfort in the netherlands, i ordered the 48V 1000W, the motor i got says 48V 750W. i asked him about that and he said that the housings are all the same and that the stator is 1000W. the top speed at 100V with 26inch wheels is a disapointing 60km/h
i left the motor completely stock, only connection removed and soldered to the 12fet lyen (stock software just soldered shunt and beefed up traces)

i do have some pictures, but the extensions are not allowed

On 52V my 26inch wheel goes about 60km/h after programming, my controller was programmed for 24V. That is probably your problem.
Now on 74V it goes about 90 km/h. I have now a torquearm, and the motorcurrent is on 80A. Accelaration is amazing! Maybe I set it to 100A if it goes well on 80A.
I have also bought the motor by Devi-Comfort (I'm from the Netherlands).

 

[brinkster]

hey nog een nederlander! haha leuk.

i don't think programming is the problem, in the infineon controllers you can only thange the cut of voltage not the "working"voltage, i think?
i don't seem to get the parameter designer working on my vista pc, i stopped trying when i almost threw the laptop through a window, f**k vista

that time the gm 48v 1000w rearwheels where on backorder and i think dennis from DEVI just shipped this one, a very slow winding motor

 

[grindz145]

I've had a setup with a golden motor 1000w for about 2000 miles, and I push about 45-60amps peak, but it drops down fairly quickly, for cruising at 33mph or so. I wouldn't push it much more than that without drilling holes in the side covers, and installing temperature sensors on the stator.

 

[pako77]

hey nog een nederlander! haha leuk.

i don't think programming is the problem, in the infineon controllers you can only thange the cut of voltage not the "working"voltage, i think?
i don't seem to get the parameter designer working on my vista pc, i stopped trying when i almost threw the laptop through a window, f**k vista

that time the gm 48v 1000w rearwheels where on backorder and i think dennis from DEVI just shipped this one, a very slow winding motor

If you have a multimeter you can measure the phase voltage (AC), If it is far below the batteryvoltage, then your controller is not at it max. Maybe it is software limited, but maybe is the trottle not full open. What is the trottle outputvoltage?

Today I had the guts to set the Kelly controller at 100%. That means 100A. I tried it and the motor and my bike survived! I only gave full trottle for a few seconds, but man o man what a rocket! I only tested it for a very sort while, but the motor and cables were not warm, so I leave the controller at 100%.


For anyone interested :

Layout route to work: first 23km no trafficsigns and almost no traffic, I can drive as fast as I want, then 8 km through town over cycle track, speed 35-45km/h, 5 trafficsigns. So total 31km and a lot of small hills (100-200m climbing per hill at 2-6%).
I deliver 150-200W myself so that makes about 120-180Wh for the trip.
And offcourse I also travel back.

speed 40-45km/h: 300-350Wh (+/- 10Wh/km) time 50-55min.
speed 45-50km/h: 400-450Wh (13-15Wh/km) time 45-50min.
speed 55km/h: about 600Wh (19Wh/km). time 40-45min.
I have never ride faster for long periods, but at 55km/h constant, the motor was only warm, so the motor can handle more power. I don't know what the phasecurrent was at that speed, but the batterycurrent was about 15A (So 1125W out of the battery).
For the battery: I charge it with 7,5A to 80V (4,00V per cell) and the voltages never drops under 72V (load 30A max).

 

[Bazaki]

Nice to know there are more fast ebikes in the Netherlands 8)

I am amazed out these powers out of the cheaper hub motors, I always thought that about 2000 watt was the max for a Goldenmotor.

Then what is so much better at the Crystalyte hs3540 motor ?
What is the weight of the Goldenmotor ? It looks very small.

 

[pako77]

Nice to know there are more fast ebikes in the Netherlands 8)

I am amazed out these powers out of the cheaper hub motors, I always thought that about 2000 watt was the max for a Goldenmotor.

Then what is so much better at the Crystalyte hs3540 motor ?
What is the weight of the Goldenmotor ? It looks very small.

The weight of the motor is about 5kg. When my speed is 55km/h, the batterycurrent is +/- 15A (the power to the motor will be around 1000W). After 45 minutes the outside of the motor is +/- 45 degrees celsius, so I think the motor can handle about 2000W continuous. The motor can deliver far more power, but not for long.
The crystalyte motor is bigger (heavier), so it can dissipate more heat > more current > more power.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Are we talking about the Magic Pie here?

@ 3100 this motor barely gets warm so I'm confident it can take 5 kw no problem and a lot more peak!

I rewired it with 12G alpha eco wire and it doesn't even get warm, it's really good stuff with amazingly thin insulation!

on 16S LiPo I can go 33 mph hot off the charger, It's got terrific acceleration with 70 amp phase and 40 amp battery, I will turn it up more just as soon as I figure out why my Infineon no longer programs!

From what I gather on dd hubs it seems that slow wind motors are the way to go and just volt the be Jesus out of them, then you got good acceleration and speed rather than fast wind motor that seems to burn quicker by dumping too much current in to get decent torque?


Mark

 

[pako77]

Are we talking about the Magic Pie here?

@ 3100 this motor barely gets warm so I'm confident it can take 5 kw no problem and a lot more peak!

I rewired it with 12G alpha eco wire and it doesn't even get warm, it's really good stuff with amazingly thin insulation!

on 16S LiPo I can go 33 mph hot off the charger, It's got terrific acceleration with 70 amp phase and 40 amp battery, I will turn it up more just as soon as I figure out why my Infineon no longer programs!

From what I gather on dd hubs it seems that slow wind motors are the way to go and just volt the be Jesus out of them, then you got good acceleration and speed rather than fast wind motor that seems to burn quicker by dumping too much current in to get decent torque?


Mark

I am not an expert, but what I know is that a slow wind motor has more torque per amp. BUT that also means that the motor must have more windings, so if the copper fill of the motor is the same, the wires have to be thinner what result in less amp the motor can handle. So I think a fast wind motor can handle more amps, but you need more to get the same torque.
But if i am wrong, please explain, i´m very interested in this.

My bike is going very well. I mounted also a mirror, garmin edge 800 and hydraulic brakes. Riding 2200km (600km on 74V) without any problems.

 

[ZOMGVTEK]

On my slower winding GM, I can relatively comfortably run 60/150A with stock phase wires. If you clamp the throttle WOT, slam on the brakes, and go back into WOT a few times, it sure gets the wires hot. However, I usually do 1-5 miles straight at WOT on the way home from work, and the motor didnt melt yet. It gets awfly hot when you abuse it bad, but it JUST BARELY takes it. If you were to ride it up a steep hill, or in really hot weather doing stupid stuff, you can easily melt it. Most days my motor smells and is 'hot' to the touch when I get home. If I take it easy its warm and has no smell at all. If you have holes in your motor and cant smell it, its fine.

Best bet is to throw a temp probe on the windings, which I have yet to do. I did run mine at 80/200 briefly, but the phase wires got dangerously hot and I backed it down. At 40/100 the motor felt indestructible. This was with 24S LiPo.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Nobody told me what motor we are talking about yet is it the pie or the normal 1kw motor?

 

[grindz145]

Nobody told me what motor we are talking about yet is it the pie or the normal 1kw motor?

The pie has an internal controller so... no were not talking about that.

The phase wires act like PTCs when you run alot of current through them. This is why I haven't upgraded mine. If I'm pushing too much current through, the wires heat up, and I get more voltage drop over the phase wires, saving the hub motor from certain destruction. It's crude and it doesn't work that well, but if you're pushing enough current through to heat up the phase wires, the stator is probably not happy either.

 

[snellemin]

The Pie also comes without the controller and I run one of them.

 

[o00scorpion00o]

Nobody told me what motor we are talking about yet is it the pie or the normal 1kw motor?

The pie has an internal controller so... no were not talking about that.

The phase wires act like PTCs when you run alot of current through them. This is why I haven't upgraded mine. If I'm pushing too much current through, the wires heat up, and I get more voltage drop over the phase wires, saving the hub motor from certain destruction. It's crude and it doesn't work that well, but if you're pushing enough current through to heat up the phase wires, the stator is probably not happy either.

Ah Okay, well it's just that the pie is rated as a 1kw motor too so I wasn't sure.

And I'm running external too!