MIT's e-bike
- Thread starter northernmike
- Start date
Doctorbass
100 GW
Nice find!
Where is the battery placement?
Doc
Where is the battery placement?
Doc
Ben
100 W
[youtube]Up6ddI_X-Cs[/youtube]
I don't like the folding design. Why overcomplicate things?
I don't like the folding design. Why overcomplicate things?
northernmike
10 kW
I have a lot of issues with this design as well. I'm just curious to see ES's reaction to what the "world's best minds" have come up with.
I think we're ahead of them in a lot of ways, but I'm hoping SOME of them will find this site and learn from us. MIT is still an influential institution and with the right information can bring real progressive ideas to bear fruit.
My suggestions:
1. Simplify. My mother cannot fold the seats in her SUV, forget teaching 99% of the population to fold an electric scooter.
2. Forget "shared ownership", dedicated exclusive "public charging stations", fee-for-use programs. Sell it, service it, recycle it, provide aftermarket upgrades, personalization options, accessories, branded jackets and make it DESIREABLE. The Vespa is still sexy for a reason. (to some)
3. Make it weigh 50lbs or less.
4. Make it plug into any standard wall plug receptacle.
5. Make it hard to steal.
6. Make it able to drive and last in all kinds of weather, in all kinds of climates, with good range and cargo capability.
7. Make it respectable to own one - not just impressive, interesting, civil, "green" or "cool".
8. Make it cost a month's salary for the average citizen.
What do you guys think?
I think we're ahead of them in a lot of ways, but I'm hoping SOME of them will find this site and learn from us. MIT is still an influential institution and with the right information can bring real progressive ideas to bear fruit.
My suggestions:
1. Simplify. My mother cannot fold the seats in her SUV, forget teaching 99% of the population to fold an electric scooter.
2. Forget "shared ownership", dedicated exclusive "public charging stations", fee-for-use programs. Sell it, service it, recycle it, provide aftermarket upgrades, personalization options, accessories, branded jackets and make it DESIREABLE. The Vespa is still sexy for a reason. (to some)
3. Make it weigh 50lbs or less.
4. Make it plug into any standard wall plug receptacle.
5. Make it hard to steal.
6. Make it able to drive and last in all kinds of weather, in all kinds of climates, with good range and cargo capability.
7. Make it respectable to own one - not just impressive, interesting, civil, "green" or "cool".
8. Make it cost a month's salary for the average citizen.
What do you guys think?
A
Anonymous
Guest
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etard
100 kW
That is the biggest piece of crap I have seen in a while! Did he say it was two wheel drive? Are they losing traction accelerating from 0-5 mph? Can't imagine that battery lasting very long if it bangs around every time you fold it up. I imagine it will cost at least $3000 a piece. You could buy 10 decent bicycles for that price that go just as fast and use zero energy. This thing might have been cutting edge 10 years ago. Sorry for the rant, but it amazes me what a bunch of out of touch nerds with access to the best of the best can come up with, compared to someone like Matt working in the "skunk works shop" :wink:
Roy
100 mW
A very cute design exercise. But outside of rich folks with a geeky bent it seems to have no constituency. At the speeds shown an ordinary folding bike would be easy to pedal, and much cheaper, etc. Folks who can't peddle aren't likely to have the agility and motivation to deal with a wobbly scooter and the folding feature would just spook them out. And the cost/performance seems horrible. All-in-all it's just gilding the lilly. Too bad.
Looks can be deceiving.
It could be that the guy figured out some manufacturing process that would allow him to make such seemingly complex frame design done on the cheap or some other thing like that. I mean if the frame was just one big stamped item that could be turned out for 40 bucks a pop then that would be one thing...
But so far it's just looking like a one-horse folding pony.
It could be that the guy figured out some manufacturing process that would allow him to make such seemingly complex frame design done on the cheap or some other thing like that. I mean if the frame was just one big stamped item that could be turned out for 40 bucks a pop then that would be one thing...
But so far it's just looking like a one-horse folding pony.
Russell
1 MW
I agree with the folks who say the folding feature is completely unnecessary. I can see if the idea is to sell it to people who wish to toss it in a trunk of their car but if it's used as they forsee then the very small space savings is hard to justify. why make it so people have to press this, switch that, turn throttle, just to park the thing. Instead of having it fold spend the money on a really slick scooter rack where people can simply roll the scooter in and have it securely lock in place with provisions for charging too. It's a nice concept vehicle but just as with the dream vehicles on the auto show circuit it's not what is likely to end up in people's hands.
-R
-R
northernmike
10 kW
I think they made it fold for apartment dwellers. It's HARD to fit a bike in an elevator!
And the majority of the market for these is in big cities.
I think a small wheeled, lightweight solution (like a certain Moulton I've seen) fits better!
But guys, if YOU had a couple million in R+D capital, where would you put it?
What does a production e-bike need to be?
And the majority of the market for these is in big cities.
I think a small wheeled, lightweight solution (like a certain Moulton I've seen) fits better!
But guys, if YOU had a couple million in R+D capital, where would you put it?
What does a production e-bike need to be?
Well making batteries more affordable would be the ideal spot to put it.
Electric motors are old technology. They've existed for as long as we have had electricity, in fact the dynos used to generate electricity could also be used to create motors. So there is about as much to know about them as you could comfortably know at this point.. given the fact that other tech is much less mature.
And bikes are pretty well known. Lightness and strength is just a matter of money. Motorcycles are designed to regularly fly dozens of yards through the air and race across the rough deserts at a 100mph+ without falling apart or killing their drivers as well as be made efficiently on a large scale and be relatively affordable and maintenance free. The average bicycle pales in comparison. All the technology you could want is up for grabs.
And electronics are very well known. Computer processors are the most complex and most technologically advanced item that humans have ever created. They are so complex that they are designed down to the molecular level using quantum mathematics. I doubt there is anything much I could contribute with just a measly couple million dollars.
So depending....
If it's just pure research money then battery technology is were it would go.
If I was expected to turn a profit then I'd put it into designing a 'total system'. A bicycle with a lightweight motor that is designed to be easy to fix, relatively maintenance free, designed to be maintained using normal hand tools as much as possible, strong, reliable, with good ergonomics, and be built using a inexpensive process. A 'peoples' ebike.
Russell
1 MW
natem said:
A Volksbiken maybe
-R
northernmike
10 kW
natem said:
Exactly!
Lightweight - 50lbs? 90lbs?
Easy to fix - meaning repairable by replacing parts, available via reliable and accessible means?
(I consider a bicycle easy to fix, but all the bike shops in Toronto have 3 week repair waits in the summer)
Maintenance free - there is a spectrum here - what should the intended life of the product (under normal usage) be? 5 years? 25 years?
Strong - how strong?
etc.
I want to see a quantum shift, like every manufacturer is promising, but I don't see any of them providing the right ingredients.
Some of the Japanese bikes look more promising - prototypes from Honda, Yamaha, production "assist" type models from Panasonic, Sanyo ...
What North America needs is a production eBike we can love!
I think it's on the way. If I had a few million bucks I'd start a company and enlist a bunch of folks here as consultants, maybe shareholders, we could do something awesome.
Like for instance = remember the old Kenmore vacuums with self-retracting power cords? I think it should have one of those. Details like that to make it just "fit" it's purpose.
And it needs STYLE, style that speaks of the joy it is to ride. It needs to not alienate people who don't take their computers apart for fun.
A total package, indeed!
People need to love this like they have loved and still love the original VW Beetle, the Vespa...
I remember my mom and brother taking their first rides on my moped when it was still gas powered - the thing lit up everyone's face who tried it.
I want people to get on an eBike and love it like that - but better - because they don't have to put gas in it, smell it, insure it, pay to park it, or clean out it's exhaust pipe - ever.
Maybe I'll write up a business plan.
etard
100 kW
So, I think we are all in agreement: this thing will never see the end of a production line.
Even the scmucks at Orange County Choppers could come up with something alot better than this latest attempt at reasonable public transportation. The only way this thing could impress me is if it went up stairs like a segway, or the instrument panel could calculate your route for maximum efficiency, or if it talked to me in calming tones if I get mad because its going so slow and try to twist the throttle too far. Speaking of all this, why couldn't they make the folding feature function to give an aerodynamic advantage at higher speeds? I would like something closer to the M-55 beasty that has recently taken root in my dreams, but I guess I'm not in the target audience for such a useless device.
Even the scmucks at Orange County Choppers could come up with something alot better than this latest attempt at reasonable public transportation. The only way this thing could impress me is if it went up stairs like a segway, or the instrument panel could calculate your route for maximum efficiency, or if it talked to me in calming tones if I get mad because its going so slow and try to twist the throttle too far. Speaking of all this, why couldn't they make the folding feature function to give an aerodynamic advantage at higher speeds? I would like something closer to the M-55 beasty that has recently taken root in my dreams, but I guess I'm not in the target audience for such a useless device.
northernmike
10 kW
Mathurin, I think it's just the media and popular culture trying to latch on to a term for a light, electric powered, two wheeled vehicle - the common person's idea of a "scooter" is gas powered, and a motorcycle has a whole other narrative behind it - an "ebike" is new, friendly, green, and open to definition.
The term "eBike" will probably be defined by what ends up selling best.
The term "eBike" will probably be defined by what ends up selling best.
