Miyata 1000 electric bike Motor Advice

[carbon.nanotube.capacitor]

Hello there,

I'm going to be electrifying my dad's slick Miyata 1000 touring bike. I have a choice of motors; Either a Crystalyte 408 or an eZee for a 26". The advantage of the Crystalyte is that it has a 7 gear cluster and is intended for the rear of the bike, where the frame is definitely capable of handling the weight. The advantage of the eZee is that it performs better, producing an estimated 12 more pounds of thrust in the 26" or 700cm wheel than the Crystalyte while reaching the same top speed.
I would really rather use the eZee motor, however I am concerned about the front fork breaking with the extra weight of the motor. the eZee motor is just 3.6 Kg / 8 lbs, lighter than the Crystalyte.
Torque is always a good thing in my books, but particularly in this case as there will likely be times my dad can't pedal due to his aging body.
My actual experience with Crystalyte is null - I have tried the eZee motors on their full bikes, and they haul ass! But it's this simulator from Renaissance that showed me the differences in torque between the eZee and Crystalyte motors: http://ebike.ca/simulator/

Any thoughts are welcomed.

 

[carbon.nanotube.capacitor]

By the way, by torque I'm referring to what Justin calls pounds of thrust, which differs with changes to wheel size. My dad's wheels are 700 cm.

 

[Vim]

I like the eZee kit for the same reasons as you. That's a nice bike but the fork looks so slender and delicate, and I'd be concerned about the dropouts too. Especially with a torquey motor.
Since you're so close, why don't you load up the bike and drive it over to Renaissance and see what they think after looking it over? If you could mount a torque arm very solid on both sides, that eZee kit would kick ass!

 

[recumbent]

If the forks are steel and not suspension they will probably be strong enough.

I once saw a 250 lb guy brake hard and hit a speed bump at the same time, folded his front wheel like a talco, then flip over the bike. All this while biking in a park at about 10 km/h, and the forks were completely undamaged, this was on a 1980's 10 speed racer with thin forks.

 

[carbon.nanotube.capacitor]

Recumbent, you had something encouraging to say.
Vim, I'd love to head over to Renaissance but it's a long way and an expensive ferry ride. Scenic though. I'll message them though, see if they think it's a bad idea. i don't want to wreck my dad's bike as it's in real nice condition and he's quite partial to it.

 

[Vim]

Free shipping on the eZee kits til the end of November is another positive

 

[Joey]

EVTECH (texaselectricbikes.com) sells a 400W BMC geared rear hub motor with 7-sprocket freewheel and a nice torque arm. This motor is very similar to the eZee except that it is a rear hub. It works well in a 36V 20A setup. You can buy motor and rim only and change out the connectors to ebikes.ca style andersons and hall connector yourself if your setup requires this. However, if you are planning on higher power setup (e.g. 48V 35A), you would need to replace the phase/hall wires with 14/24 gauge stranded teflon-insulated wire.

I think the new 600W BMC (V2, V2T, Thunderbolt, etc.) is an even better motor, but I don't know how available it is yet. I e-mailed one vendor recently and have not yet received a reply.

-- Joey

 

[Joey]

I forgot to mention that one of Justin's Crystalyte start-immediate analog controllers, half-twist throttle, and Cycle Analyst (the version with direct connect and speedometer cable) would be a nice fit for the BMC hub motor (after changing connectors).

-- Joey

 

[Papa]

Hello there,

I'm going to be electrifying my dad's slick Miyata 1000 touring bike.

I wish you wouldn't. Many of the Miyata's, and especially the highly sought-after 1000/1200, is a top-of-the-line touring bike - highly collectible in it's unmolested state! In 1980 the bike retailed for over $500. Suffice to say, you'd be well advised to start with something else,... perhaps a $150 cheapie from Wally World, or pick up a steel beater from your local secondhand outlet.

 

[Drunkskunk]

as long as a magnet will stick to the front fork, it should handle the Ezee.

It has more tourqe, but there is something to be said for the silent power of a Clyte, and having rear wheel drive feels more seamless.

 

[carbon.nanotube.capacitor]

True the bike is highly desirable as-is. And for good reason. However there will be no modification to the frame or wheels - the motor will be laced into a new rim, so the original bicycle components will remain intact in the event that we want to make it original again. And yes - we appreciate the bike for it's truly elegant and innovative design as a touring bike, which is part of why we won't be making any changes that can't be undone. Thanks for your input though.

 

[dnmun]

i agree, conserve the classics. there is so much equipment available on CL or in the trash even that it is a shame to consume a classic, i argued the same point with the other guy who is into the ultracapacitor thing and is gonna use an intact EV-1 as a shell for a project.

if you are gonna justify it for a geezer, then use a 'dutch' frame or a cruiser with shocks from something on CL, recumbent is best for us geezers cause we don't do endo's easily any more.

the steel is important in the dropout, because all the torque is on a short radius at the dropout, and aluminum is softer and more susceptible to metal fatigue. there are motors on the for sale page too, i think gaston just got dirtdad's 5304, he has an old 400W BMC too. BOL,dm

 

[carbon.nanotube.capacitor]

There was a guy using an EV1 shell with capacitors? I can understand that, given how low the drag is with that body, but that would be a car best left as close to original as possible - the longer we keep around those reminders of technological prowess that had been snuffed by big business, the better the chance of more people giving 'it all' more thought.
My dad is attached to his Miyata. He isn't dead yet as he says - rather young really; Just has joint problems that involve dislocation with the wrong movement, which can be almost anything sometimes. As you can imagine it is very painful to have a hip blow out while your pedaling hard, and then you have to pedal with only your good leg to get home. Not something I want my dad to go through again.
However there may be more practical frames; after all the arched seating position of road frames isn't good for my dad either. I remember the days my dad and I would literally use our road bikes to go everywhere - actually I started with a Norco Mountain bike from Canadian Tire - I was just a kid but I was able to keep up to him most of the time by the end of the first summer. He got me to be the fasted twelve year old bicyclist in town. We used to smoke by other riders! The fun ones were the fully outfitted guys with all the track cycling gear and spiffy expensive bikes - and then after we passed them they would sometimes try to catch up, but we were too quick! Especially when I got a small Nishiki road frame.
Now ten years later I never take my bike out and my dad's joints are falling apart. Maybe it's in part for nostalgia's sake that I want to use the Miyata - but maybe there are better frames to use...

 

[dogman dan]

If you are going front hub, a lot of the more expensive bikes have a dropout with a little cup in them, that fits the quick release hub perfect. This cup can cause a lot of problems with fitting much larger hub motor washers and nuts. You can ruin the dropouts easy before you even ride it, and when you do, the motor spins and cut the wires too. The front forks on modern beach cruisers, cheap comfort bikes, and such are much better suited to the front motor than anything expensive, since they don't try to shave every gram of weight off. Some of the front dropouts on expensive roadbikes are shaved down to the bare minimum. Rear hubs, of course have less problems, but the dropouts on them can also be a problem if they go up and down, as opposed to the more deep, horizontal ones on cheap bikes.

 

[carbon.nanotube.capacitor]

Okay it's settled. The Miyata will have to be sold because my dad simply can't ride it anymore - gone are the days of fast and strong riding on a road frame. Now we're going to find a used mountain frame or the like; something more comfortable and less neck-bending.

So the Miyata will live as a classic, though not all-original.

I may go with a rear eZee motor though! Renaissance now has them!

 

[Zoot Katz]

Okay it's settled. The Miyata will have to be sold because my dad simply can't ride it anymore - gone are the days of fast and strong riding on a road frame. Now we're going to find a used mountain frame or the like; something more comfortable and less neck-bending.

So the Miyata will live as a classic, though not all-original.

I may go with a rear eZee motor though! Renaissance now has them!

Before giving up on an old friend, try modifying the riding position. It's not hard with a new stem, handlebar and saddle. Methods abound for adapting our old road bikes to fit our new older bodies. Check out Rivendell for a Nitto Technomic stem. Sheldon Brown left us lots of informative articles about fitting bikes to eliminate niggling pains and other issues that can lead to more lasting damage.

My Miyata one thousand is sporting moustache bars with bar-end shifters instead of the stock drops and DT shifters. The bars could go even higher by flipping them or using a taller stem. Your weight distribution changes more toward your bumm putting less weight on your upper body and wrists. I'd probably swap the Brooks Pro that's on it for something wider like a B17 or Champion Flyer. I like the way the bike rides now and it still looks hot to go. It's my highest milage bike again this year. (It was gifted to me by a bicycle mechanic friend in Dec '06 and has been in semi-full service from ~Apr '07)

I see no reason a EZee rear hub motor wouldn't work in a good butted cro-mo touring frame like the Miyata.