Motorcyclist clocked at 193 mph on NY highway - in the rain!

[Kin]

Guys, I hope you realize that if you hit something you'd be dead, and you wouldn't be here to complain. A few arguments seem to be based on the "well I'm still here."

193mph is f*cking fast, and faster than most vehicles can manage. Dynamic instability, component strength, all of that would be at the edge. Common, in the rain as well?

Obviously the risk diminishes with a good motorcycle, and maybe for some it's almost nothing. But you're moving 283 feet per second, so in the .2 seconds it takes to react to something you've gone 56feet. I guess that's not the *worst* reaction time, as you'd have to notice something in the 30ft window roughly in which you can see past 56feet, and of course, there's not much you could do to react to something...

I'm all for defending a certain level of freedom from rules. Maybe there should be a flat long deer-less highway without speed restriction. And 12 tickets sounds like an idiotic type of response. I don't know what is the right response,

But I think it's pretty stupid to be extremely nonchalant about 193mph in the rain.


Edit: P.S, I want to speak up that rape is a pretty bad tactic to use for arguments. I don't think many people who feel affected by it would speak up to disagree with you, but it's something far more frequently occurring than most people realize, nor in the ways people realize. It's not really light talking material. I guess it's like using hilter and the holocaust as your arguments in a room full of older people.

 

[Kingfish]

Kingfish- You want to see this man's property stolen and stuck in a cage because he traveled at a rate of speed outside your personal comfort zone. Would you also jail everyone on the autobahn? The autobahn itself felt more tricky to navigate at speed than most roads here in CA, and they definitely have plenty of places where traffic can pull out and do random stupid things like change lanes in front of you etc. Does a different arrangement of ink on a sign somehow alter your thoughts of traveling at speed, so that one person you recommend stealing from and jailing, and another you might say, "that's the autobahn, the arrangement of paint on the sign is different, and the road has lots of good flat sections with other people going fast". Obviously the road this guy did his 190mph run on was plenty straight and flat enough, because he managed to do it in the rain after all...

Luke, sadly we don’t have anything resembling Autobahns here in the USA cos we let anyone own a car and drive it in nearly any condition. Not too much trash on the road in the EU... it’s completely different over there; I have great appreciation for Germany: Drove 6,000 km in 34 days one summer; scary at rare times cos I wasn’t used to it, but man it was fun! Too bad we can’t drive like that in the USA, but it's impossible with too many commoners on the road that haven’t a clue how to drive. And in California, many people drive like assholes; little to no etiquette, particularly that stretch between Stockton and Modesto. There’s just no comparing apples to oranges. Heck, even the octane is different; better quality EU petrol allows for cooler running engines. Gotta admit: We’ve fallen behind. It’s sad that Montana no longer has unlimited Interstate speed, the last unregulated frontier in the USA.

But the guy on the bike wasn’t in Germany on the Autobahn. He deserves having the book thrown at him for recklessness and whatever else they come up with. Driving is first and foremost a privilege and not a right. The Driver’s License is a strict contract by the individual to abide with the State and Federal Government agencies, to obey traffic law. Only pedestrians and pedestrians on bikes have free reign to travel in this country without license. People come first. People’s lives, livelihood, security, and welfare come before the individual that insanely broke the law. It doesn’t matter one iota if no one was physically hurt; he was doing at least 120 mph over the fastest speed limit, and like a badly behaved animal must be treated as such. We did not pick the fight; he did. I am certain his actions scared the shit out of everyone involved. Punishment must fit the crime. It was gross error, inconceivable by normal standards, and for that – I’d take away his toys, forfeit, he’s done (and done it to himself).

The larger question is whether it is a felony crime. If he popped a tire, do you think he would have lived? How about popped a tire on a corner at 190-somethin’? Forget the rain; what he did was insane. The excuse he gave was laughable; if the patient was that important and he was that late, he should have conferenced-in… many electrons would have been lost instead of his license and bike (of which I expect).

On the other hand, if he was set to perform a feat of great skill and had been sanctioned by the Law with permission... hey, it's a different story because people's safety would have overtly come first. With that given... I might pay to see a guy race at insanely high speed in the rain... maybe. Or at least, watch it on youtube

~KF

 

[TylerDurden]

.
"At 250 KM (155 mph) the operator is traveling at 227 feet per second. With normal reaction time to SEE-DECIDE-REACT of 1.6 seconds the above operator would have traveled over 363 feet while making a decision on what actions to take. In this incident the Swedish police indicate that no [such] actions were taken."
http://www.driveandstayalive.com/articles%20and%20topics/crash%20causation/speed_swedish-motorcycle-crash_2005.htm

 

[Chalo]

The guy caused no harm, and now other people are causing him harms because of it.

"No harm", until he drills his 'tard rocket through a van full of people and takes some of them with him. It's nobody's right to drive on public streets like that, any more than it's OK to fire mortar rounds at random over a city.

Concentrations of man-made kinetic energy need to be tightly controlled. Just because we're used to any idiot with a pulse being allowed to drive a 150mph, 3000 pound missile around while texting with his free hand does not make it right.

I hope to live long enough to see a day when our lives do not depend on the attentiveness and good judgment of our fellow road users. Google is on the right track in this regard.

Chalo

 

[Gordo]

After 50+ years without an accident, my last bike ticket was for 147kph, in a 90 zone. Then a lady ended my biking at 50kph in a 50 zone.


She complained about spilling her hot coffee in her lap, while turning left into my path. She did not get a ticket. I am banged up for life. Where is the balance?

The guy caused no harm, and now other people are causing him harms because of it.

"No harm", until he drills his 'tard rocket through a van full of people and takes some of them with him. It's nobody's right to drive on public streets like that, any more than it's OK to fire mortar rounds at random over a city.

Concentrations of man-made kinetic energy need to be tightly controlled. Just because we're used to any idiot with a pulse being allowed to drive a 150mph, 3000 pound missile around while texting with his free hand does not make it right.

I hope to live long enough to see a day when our lives do not depend on the attentiveness and good judgment of our fellow road users. Google is on the right track in this regard.

Chalo

 

[liveforphysics]

I have never and will never debate the potential to cause harms. However, just like Chalo's last post puts so well, ""No harm", until he drills his 'tard rocket through a van full of people and takes some of them..." it's just a potential harm.

I bet with an hour of searching we could find 100 pictures of motorcycles that crashed into cars at high speeds from all around the world. Maybe 200.

Combined vehicle related deaths for the year in our country is 31,000. This includes cars, trucks, buses, pedestrians and cyclists, motorcycles, etc.




File Versions 2009
Motor Vehicle Traffic Crashes
Fatal Crashes 30,797
Vehicle Occupants
Drivers 17,640
Passengers 6,770
Unknown 64
Sub Total1 24,474
Motorcyclists 4,462

Nonmotorist
Pedestrians 4,092
Pedalcyclists 630
Other/ Unknown 150
Sub Total2 4,872
Total** 33,808
Other National Statistics
Vehicle Miles Traveled (Billions) 2,954



But, let's look at this 31,000 vehicle related deaths. 4,462 involved motorcycles.

Of the deaths involving motorcycles, 90.5% killed just the operator of the motorcycle, 8% were passengers on the back of the motorcycle, 0.9% were drivers of a passenger vehicle, and 0.6% were passengers in a passenger vehicle.

So, 40.1 drivers in cars and 26.7 passengers over the course of the whole year in the whole country, and 72% of all motorcycle fatalities are caused by the driver of a car left-crossing the motorcyclist!


Lets compare that with the risk of driving an SUV or pickup. You can read through this if you want to see all the numbers (way more than I'm going to post here). Basically, if you drive a dodge ram, you're 5 times more likely to kill someone else, if you drive a chevy s10 pickup, you're 3-4 times more likely to kill yourself than if you drive a camery or civic.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...24DNDQ&usg=AFQjCNHNcIWLTJzWQXIPxYfyK8Fxv9_TUA



I vote we arrest the people in dodge Ram's for the potential harm they are doing when operating there vehicle. (obviously joking, but it's just as silly as penalizing someone speeding who has also done no harms)


Or, let's look at the big killers


Here's the things that are the real risks of death.

Number of deaths for leading causes of death
Heart disease: 599,413
Cancer: 567,628
Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 137,353
Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 128,842
Accidents (unintentional injuries): 118,021
Alzheimer's disease: 79,003
Diabetes: 68,705
Influenza and Pneumonia: 53,692
Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 48,935
Intentional self-harm (suicide): 36,909


I notice we have more suicides than all combined vehicle deaths... Maybe if more people embraced the awesome life-injecting experience of pinning it on a motorcycle we could save many of those suicide deaths from happening.


Lets look at the big killer, heart diseases. 599,000 deaths per year... In a single hour it kills more people than all folks in vehicles struck by motorcycles all year long, and the majority of those wrecks were caused by the person the in vehicle not looking ahead before turning left...

Could it be argued that McDonald's results in more deaths per year than all folks in cars by motorcycles? I think it's a safe bet.
More people die because of choosing SUVs and pickups over cars than all motorcycle related deaths combined.

Stupid vehicle choice (SUV's/pickups) is a well known statistical potential harm increase that kills, and kills in big numbers. (more than all of motorcycling, and over a hundred times more than all folks in cars killed by motorcycles).

Tell me why we don't ticket somebody the moment they step into an SUV or pickup? They are creating a bigger harm potential, that is well documented and proven to increase the chances of killing themselves and other people by VERY substantial amounts. We don't ticket them because they haven't done a thing wrong YET, neither has the guy speeding, they've just driven there stupid vehicle choice and he has just enjoyed a rippin motorcycle ride. The SUV driver statistically is responsible for orders of magnitude more harms, but the thought of someone driving an SUV doesn't personally get inside someones head and frighten them into make a fear based decision to punish someone else like enjoying your superbikes potential does.

 

[mrzed]

LFP,

With all due respect, and as a fellow libertarian - I think you're just wrong on this. Society has every right to sanction people for the potential to cause harm - particularly in public places. Should we only charge people for firing a gun through a schoolyard if they actually hit a kid? Maybe they are a really good shot, and they would never hit a kid because they were only aiming at the soccer balls.

 

[liveforphysics]

LFP,

With all due respect, and as a fellow libertarian - I think you're just wrong on this. Society has every right to sanction people for the potential to cause harm - particularly in public places. Should we only charge people for firing a gun through a schoolyard if they actually hit a kid? Maybe they are a really good shot, and they would never hit a kid because they were only aiming at the soccer balls.

People choosing SUVs over cars is bigger potential killer than all motorcyclists combined though. A good McDonald's comerical may cause more deaths than all street-racing, motorcycle and cars combined. That's the point. Whenever you play the potential harms game, it's never about what is actually the danger/risk, it's about what acts make some people uneasy or afraid. People aren't afraid of a McDonalds commercial, it doesn't stand the hairs up on the backs of their neck like thinking about what it would be like to do 190mph in the rain on a highway.

It makes no difference what actually is the real danger/risk/killer, it just matters what frightens somebody else, so they feel like they are entitled to punish someone because of it.

 

[Icewrench]

As a kid way back when there was a cop in our hood that would do 60mph roaring down residential streets and blasting thru un marked intersections.
He never had to worry about a ticket cause he was a cop and in the big new cadillac he had mass on his side.
I never heard of him being involved in a wreck so maybe he did it forever and did not have any problems with the risky high speed crap in an inappropriate place.




But his young son only lasted about a year and a half after he started driving.
He died in a high speed car crash on a residential street and took a friend with him.



Wonder where he learned to do that......

 

[Thud]

Its really not about "potential" harm as some one drives about....Its the act of speeding that is that is under scrutiny.

You can't demonize any vehicle over another.....any more than you should demonize a fire arm of any kind.
it's the human.

I am all for haveing any one carry a fire arm if they feel the need..... to temper that, I sure don't want some one walking down the street with his gun pulled & pointing it at every pedestrians head Just because he feels like it.
No harm? BS. its an agressive act.

driving so far above a speed limit is carless. You can be careless & not do harm....but there is a line where civiity come onto play. This guy was infringing others right's & for no possible good reason other than "he felt like it"

What rights? The right to expect any one using a public road will follow the basic & simple rules. Its unfair to joe public to have to be on the look out for balistic retards scratching thier speed itch....especialy when there are venues to do the same thing without burdoning the public.

 

[deVries]

Of the deaths involving motorcycles, 90.5% killed just the operator of the motorcycle, 8% were passengers on the back of the motorcycle, 0.9% were drivers of a passenger vehicle, and 0.6% were passengers in a passenger vehicle.

So, 40.1 drivers in cars and 26.7 passengers over the course of the whole year in the whole country, and 72% of all motorcycle fatalities are caused by the driver of a car left-crossing the motorcyclist!

All your statistics amount to hand waving bypassing the issue that these statistics lack any categorization at extreme "insane" speeds such as 190+mph.

Luke, have you ever ridden your motorcycle anywhere at 190+mph??? In the rain???

99.99999999...% of the population will never go anywhere close to that "insane" speed on a public roadway with unsupervised traffic alongside in the rain too. :lol:

Will you be another exception Luke??? You seem to be defending your right to do 190+mph in the rain on that NY hwy without any penalties, since there is only "the potential" to do harm beforehand assuming you survive to tell the tale.

I notice we have more suicides than all combined vehicle deaths... Maybe if more people embraced the awesome life-injecting experience of pinning it on a motorcycle we could save many of those suicide deaths from happening.

Check-out the movie The Deer Hunter. The rush of one bullet in six to get junkie adrenaline highs. At least that bullet is aimed in the right direction to end "that rush" w/o harming someone else with that bullet. Are the odds any better going 193mph in the rain? Where are those statistics Luke??? :wink:

I'm sure a lot of us reading this thread are wondering what philosophical foundation and political belief system do you subscribe to that allows for you maintain your argument/debate supporting your right to travel 193mph on public roadways vs our Republican form of government in the USA that is in disagreement with your "potential harm" excuse, and, as you believe, to also not be severely punished for doing so without "harm" by our justice/legal process? :?

 

[dingoEsride]

My brother was a speed freak and would regularly reach similar speeds but he did so on very isolated australian country roads and although he has had many bike accidents still can tell the tales, if this guy was doing these speeds where other traffic is involved then clearly he is an idiot and deserves punishment not only for doing so also for getting caught

 

[deVries]

I might pay to see a guy race at insanely high speed in the rain... maybe. Or at least, watch it on youtube

+1 for YouTube.

 

[El_Steak]

There's a place where you are free to go as fast as you want. You won't get any tickets and you'll only be riding with other people who knowingly agreed to the same risks as you. Its called a race track.

 

[Arlo1]

You guys seen this? http://www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/Video+Dangerous+Victoria+motorcycle+ride+hits/6473272/story.html
Its amazing how people over reacted to it on our "safe" little island here. The cops are frocking stupid when it comes to speeding. Just as Luke. I have driven over the "speed limit" that some idiot who likely has no Idea how to handle a car in a dangerous situation sat in hi office and dreamed up. The truth is I have seen the Cops try to cause shit far worse then me driving over the speed limit swerving though traffic cutting people off etc. I have well over 1,000,000 km of road experience and NEVER drove the speed limit even with a cop around I will be over just a few km/h.
The most dangerous thing you can do when driving on our safe little island is hang in the middle of a cluster of people. I have only been in accidents because of other peoples stupid mistakes. Like a guy who rear ended me or the lady who turned from the middle lane trying to get into a grocery store parking lot she saw at the last minute and I was in the far right lane. She destroyed my car but even then all my years of what society calls bad driving saved my ass because i knew how to react. Those are just a couple instances.
But at the end of the day if you want "safe" stay on the couch. Because moving at any rate of speed can kill you! You know if you want to run numbers and look at the real danger you might see its not as bad driving fast because you are on the road for a shorter lenght of time giving other people less time to cause you harm.
Having said all this you do need common sense like when I'm on my own street or one like it, I take it easy because a little kid might jump out from behind a car.

 

[cbr shadow]

I agree that the whole "potential" arguement is a very weak one. Try applying that to a drunk driver - if you get home safe without crashing it's ok because you didn't kill anyone? Any punish those who harm others in doing it? Same goes for firing a gun in public, or randomly in the air. If no people are hurt there is no harm done, and that was only "potential" rather than an actual crime? There are countless examples of where we punish people for doing things that could hurt other people.

 

[deVries]

You guys seen this? http://www.vancouversun.com/news/thewest/Video+Dangerous+Victoria+motorcycle+ride+hits/6473272/story.html
Its amazing how people over reacted to it on our "safe" little island here. The cops are frocking stupid when it comes to speeding. Just as Luke. I have driven over the "speed limit" that some idiot who likely has no Idea how to handle a car in a dangerous situation sat in hi office and dreamed up. The truth is I have seen the Cops try to cause shit far worse then me driving over the speed limit swerving though traffic cutting people off etc. I have well over 1,000,000 km of road experience and NEVER drove the speed limit even with a cop around I will be over just a few km/h.
The most dangerous thing you can do when driving on our safe little island is hang in the middle of a cluster of people. I have only been in accidents because of other peoples stupid mistakes. Like a guy who rear ended me or the lady who turned from the middle lane trying to get into a grocery store parking lot she saw at the last minute and I was in the far right lane. She destroyed my car but even then all my years of what society calls bad driving saved my ass because i knew how to react. Those are just a couple instances.
But at the end of the day if you want "safe" stay on the couch. Because moving at any rate of speed can kill you! You know if you want to run numbers and look at the real danger you might see its not as bad driving fast because you are on the road for a shorter lenght of time giving other people less time to cause you harm.
Having said all this you do need common sense like when I'm on my own street or one like it, I take it easy because a little kid might jump out from behind a car.

But, what does "all of the above" have to do with justification for driving 186mph or 193mph???????? etc........

Overreaction???...

“I can’t find enough adjectives to describe how unacceptable this is,” said Saanich police spokesman Sgt. Dean Jantzen. “This is just, it’s so appalling.”

Jantzen said the driver is lucky he didn’t kill himself or others on the road.

The traffic officer leading the investigation is a motorcyclist himself and is extremely concerned about the message the video sends, making speeding look cool.

Jantzen said he’s pleased to see that many of the comments on the video are condemning the dangerous behaviour.

“All it would take is somebody to change lanes in front of him. poof... dead,” commented one viewer.

Where are those motorcycle 186mph-193mph on public roadway statistics? :lol:

Arlo1, have you driven 186+mph anywhere on a motorcycle in the rain??? On dry pavement?

 

[Arlo1]

Arlo1, have you driven 186+mph anywhere on a motorcycle in the rain??? On dry pavement?

IM a motorcycle mechanic by trade dude. I have ridden basically almost everything Japanese and American and ~50% of European bikes sold in Canada. I have been on Suzuki, ducat demo rides where the rev limiter is the speed limit. I have race various motorsports and motocross all my life. There is no question if If gone that fast in a car or on a bike in the rain or on the dry. FYI rain tires Hook very well!

 

[Kin]

Where Luke has a damn good point, is that we have big problems with the un-blamable dangers of frocking huge SUVS, trucks, unsafe sedans, and drivers who honestly are not capable of driving safely.

It frustrates me that we do spend time worrying about the motorcyclist, because there's no actionable way to tackle to ultimately bigger issues, and so we don't even talk about them. Still, it's not really proof that the motorcycle is "ok," it's just pointing at a bigger fire.


P.S, Arlo, that's awesome.

 

[Arlo1]

I agree that the whole "potential" arguement is a very weak one. Try applying that to a drunk driver - if you get home safe without crashing it's ok because you didn't kill anyone? Any punish those who harm others in doing it? Same goes for firing a gun in public, or randomly in the air. If no people are hurt there is no harm done, and that was only "potential" rather than an actual crime? There are countless examples of where we punish people for doing things that could hurt other people.

I don't agree with drinking and driving and it is almost the only one law I am OK with. It sucks people have to have the gov force it down our thoughts but drunk drivers are dangerous once you add drugs or alcohol to a driver/rider they usually loose their skills quite fast then it becomes more like the SUV Luke pointed out that cant stop fast enough!

 

[deVries]

There's a place where you are free to go as fast as you want. You won't get any tickets and you'll only be riding with other people who knowingly agreed to the same risks as you. Its called a race track.

Precisely!

Its really not about "potential" harm as some one drives about....Its the act of speeding that is that is under scrutiny.

You can't demonize any vehicle over another.....any more than you should demonize a fire arm of any kind.
it's the human.

+++Hit the nail on the head exactly except I would add it's the act of speeding at "insane" speeds of 190+mph in the rain that is specifically what is under scrutiny by this thread topic.

 

[liveforphysics]

I've never raced on a track with a straight that I could reach 190mph. It takes something like a NASCAR boring track.

On almost every highway, you can do 190mph and not have a 50mph turn #1 that you have to brake for to make.


I don't exceed 190mph on every ride, maybe every 5th ride, because most days 170-ish is satisfying enough. I avoid riding in the rain because rain hurts a lot at high speeds, even through riding gear, and I run dry condition slicks on the street.

Here is an old video from 4 years ago of a nice ride enjoying my GSXR.

http://www.myspace.com/video/vid/39855923


Here is a recent video of racing on the track. On the track, the straight is scary short, after a few laps my massive twin rotor 6 pot brakes and racing pads and race fluid is all boiling/smoking/burning so flying down the straight at ~160ish into a sharp corner gets pretty exciting when your brakes are sketchy. On the street (way way less brake taxing) my brakes fortunately NEVER get sketchy, and I would never even think of ripping on a road with a corner so soon (like the racetrack). As a guy who does plenty of both, the freeway/highway has always felt like a much safer place for high speeds than any racetrack I've ridden. It's miles of straight road with extremely gentle turns, and its easy to find sections that don't have on/off ramps for miles, do it at night and you get plenty of warning of tail-light spotting, in fact, easily double the warning distance to slow down than the entire straights at most tracks.

[youtube]CTWXmJlHm6E[/youtube]


But... I know the arm-chair specialist crew always will feel like they know whats best no matter what... Doesn't matter that you've done >170mph with no issues a few thousand times... Or the crew you ride with also runs whatever speeds the road and conditions allow for decades without incident...

How do you know what speed the road and conditions allow? If you kept it rubber side down, it obviously was a speed the conditions allowed. This guy doing 190 was obviously not going too fast for the road and conditions, as he made it fine.

 

[cbr shadow]

I also do track days w/ my sportbikes, and have for a while. These tracks are made to be safe with large grassy areas for you to slide, or padding in corners. No big trees, other cars, curbs, etc.. Road America has a straight that is almost 1 mile long, plenty of space to get over 160+. If you've gone close to 200mph on the street "1000's of times" without an accident, why even bother wearing a helmet or other protective gear? You've clearly proven that it's safe.

I'm unsubscribing to this thread.. Every point you've made has been shot down and now it has boiled down to "Since he didn't crash, it was safe". The fact that someone didn't ruin their life or someone elses life while doing something does not make it safe.

 

[liveforphysics]

The whole point is the concept of doing real harms to someone because they increased chances of potential harms.

 

[dodjob]

Hi there,
We had a "gohst rider" here in Germany. I must agree that at 400Km/h (<-- this is no typing error) impact as potential arm, actually mostly for the driver but also for the others.
[youtube]OKgH0S-m0YI[/youtube]
I own a motorbike (1000Gsxr) and I have already 1000x times reached the red zone on the last speed (YES YOU CAN) it's here allowed but let me clarify one point.
The law specify very clearly that we are allow to drive in some portion of the autobahn at the speed we like (just more than 80km/h) BUT the advised speed is 120Km/h. So if something happend and there is proof that you were driving at more than 120Km/h you get real problems with the police and your insurance. That's the kind of law we have here in germany, it's free but we live in a "country ruled by insurance"
Gruß,
H.