Mounting 5304 motor

[Deepkimchi]

Question: On the side of the crystalyte 5304 motor where the wires come out is a white plastic bushing.

Is this strong enough to hold when you tighten the nut down on the axle?

In my package there's no metal stop nut that keeps pressure off of the white bushing.

2nd: Any opinions on whether to grind the stays or the motor axle to make things fit?

 

[xyster]

Question 1: Don't know. My 5304 has a metal sleeve over the axle extending about 1/4" beyond the white plastic piece from whence the wires exit. This sleeve compresses against the inside of the stays, not the plastic piece.

Question 2: I definitely know. Grind the axle just enough so that you can lightly tap the axle in with a mallet or hammer -- this should prevent play between the axle and the stay caused by grinding too much off the axle. Do not grind the stays. That's the last part of a hubmotor'd bike you want weakened.

 

[Deepkimchi]

Here's a picture of the plastic piece

B

 

[BiGH]

the plastic should be ok - if in doubt though you could just put a metal washer between the plastic bit and the frame. My 408 has the same plastic bit, i've got a flat washer that can be placed in there.

if you've got room in the dropouts you could put the locking washer on the inside.

H.

 

[Deepkimchi]

Hmm got to looking again, and pulled the top of the plastic off. Has metal underneath. Whew!

Reckon age makes me too careful, but sure didn't want to mess a $400 motor up.

Thanks y'all

 

[BiGH]

nah its fine - did ur motor come with 2 flat washers and 2 locking washers (round washer with a lil tip)?

 

[Deepkimchi]

Yep - I also bought an extra set just in case.

Got to run to the Korean hardware store and buy some files and stuff.

 

[Deepkimchi]

Found that the Phoenix motor from Poweride must have already had the axle filed.

The axle is the exact same size as the stay openings.

I would highly advise not getting the 7 gear freewheel. That last gear cost me and the wife about 30 minutes of tapping and prying. The small gear kept catching on the rounded tube part of the stay. Once we got the gear past the tube, the motor just dropped in the stay slot.

Thank God for wives and rubber hammers. :wink:

 

[Deepkimchi]

Bought it in for the night. Pics both sides. Bike upside down.

 

[Miles]

Hope there's some kind of torque arm for that thing.

At the least, you need to bridge the opening of the dropout.

 

[Nimbuzz]

What he said about needing a torque arm!!

 

[xyster]

Your wire-side axle looks just like mine, except I never had that little plastic cap. I'm surprised you were able to fit a 7-speed freewheel. Did you have to spread the dropouts?

I agree with the torque arm recommendation. I cut one for each side from a stainless steel tie:

 

[Deepkimchi]

Just wedged the rubber covered handle of a hammer in one side and a cloth wrapped ratchet handle on the other side.

I don't think I permanently spread anything. It was catching on the last small gear and the stay tube. Once I got it past that it dropped in.

Never deflected it more than 3/4 of an inch.

The rear motor from Poweride seems to be dished.

I'll probably modify the kick stand as a torque arm. It has thick metal, and one edge wraps halfway around the stay tube.

Won't be working today on it - Sunday...

 

[xyster]

Won't be working today on it - Sunday...

And on the 163rd day of DeepKimchi's project he exclaimed: Let there be ebike! And there was ebike.

 

[mvadventure]

Sometimes the anticipation of completion is the most fun we ever get out of a project. Just when everything is supposed to be done, all the parts in place and we're ready to stand back and admire our work the piece falls over, the glass breaks or we bang our knuckles so bad we hafta go see a doctor.

However in an ebike project, once completed, the ev grin will never go away. The grin will make all the little aggravations be forgotten, all the extra expense negligible and God in Heaven happy with you.

Wear a helmet. Every time. Good luck, God Bless.

Mike

 

[sulphuric99]

I too got my rear 5304 from Poweride, it came with the same white plastic cover (bushing?). I wondered if I was supposed to leave it on or not.

I tried installing the wheel with the plastic on, but as I tightened the nuts the plastic cover started to break. So I just installed it without the plastic cover, which seemed to work fine. I then put a whole bunch of silicone caulking in the opening that was formerly covered with the plastic.

I had to put a washer on the other (gear) side, otherwise the highest (smallest) gear was unusable because the chain was rubbing against the chain stay tube.

 

[Deepkimchi]

Same here, haven't tightened it up yet. Had too many mini-emergencies with the family.

Looks like my chain will rub also. Really think the 5 gear freewheel would have been better.

The motor casing comes REAL close to the stay tube on one side too. About 1 cm distance.

 

[Deepkimchi]

Finally made torque arm from a piece of angle bracket. Using a drill, round and flat files, and a lot of back and forth fitting..

All hand made......

 

[xyster]

Nice looking torque arm, but how's it attach to the frame? Looking at the picture, as the motor spins counter-clockwise the axle will try to spin the arm clockwise.

 

[fechter]

Nice looking torque arm, but how's it attach to the frame? Looking at the picture, as the motor spins counter-clockwise the axle will try to spin the arm clockwise.

Right. You might just flip the torque arm over so it hits the bottom of the chainstay. Think of it this way: when you give it throttle, the motor is going to try to make the bike do a wheelie.

Just make sure the axle nuts are really tight and you should not have any problems.

 

[Deepkimchi]

AW Crap - I knew which way the wheel turned. I thought the force on the axle was in the direction of travel.

Y'all have seen thiis from experience ? Would seem to make sense, if the magnets are pushing against a fixed internal part and turning forward it would makethe internal part turn backwards.

Hope that wasn't 4 hours down the drain.

Think we need a sticky on the basics ! Basic list of parts needed, don't buy the 7 gear freewheel, don't buy the 2.5" tires, use a torque arm, the axle turns backwards!

 

[Deepkimchi]

Also, when making a torque arm, the side on the flat part of the axle needs to be tight, but you want to leave about a millimeter space on each thread side, to keep from wearing down the threads as you tighten the nut.

 

[xyster]

AW Crap - I knew which way the wheel turned. I thought the force on the axle was in the direction of travel.

Y'all have seen thiis from experience ? Would seem to make sense, if the magnets are pushing against a fixed internal part and turning forward it would makethe internal part turn backwards.

It's a consequence of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton%27s_laws#Newton.27s_third_law:_law_of_reciprocal_actions">Isaac Newton's Third Law of Motion</a>, so blame him.

Think we need a sticky on the basics ! Basic list of parts needed, don't buy the 7 gear freewheel, don't buy the 2.5" tires, use a torque arm, the axle turns backwards!

I did advise you to use a 3-speed instead of the 7-speed freewheel:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1576&highlight=
<blockquote>With a 7-speed, the motor will sit way off-center. The amount of "dish" required to center the wheel over the off-centered motor is so extreme as to weaken the wheel/spoke combo considerably. ... or replace that 7 speed with a 3 speed and just dish it enough so the wheel is centered within the rear triangle (that's your best option, IMO).</blockquote>

Couldn't foresee the 2.5" tire issue, and you did figure out to use a torque arm already, just not which way the axle turns. We also went through a long list of needed parts:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1576&highlight=
I spent a bit of time writing that one.

 

[Deepkimchi]

Not trying to blame y'all on this. Upset at myself.

I know you provided enough info, was just suggesting making a Sticky out of the best stuff for everyone.

When you made the comment on the freewheel, I had already ordered the hub motor and wheel. Wasn't worried when it came, it was heaviily dished, but now noticed the smallest gear almost rubs the stay.

 

[Nimbuzz]

Deep, I know it can be a project to get a 5304 running. I finally got mine going with a 7 spd. If the small gear almost hits the stay that might be OK -- as long as the gear and chain do not hit there should be no movement during riding and all should be OK, even if it is close (others correct me if I'm wrong)

After a lot of research and contact with Crystalyte in China I came to understand that there were two versions or the 5304 (and all 53xx, I believe) The early version had the axle centered and could not dish enough for a 7 spd even though some were sold with 7 spd. Then, perhaps a year ago they moved the axle over 9mm. I got one of those with the double wall C-Lyte rim and it came dished by my dealer -- Justin. I still had to have the wheel tightened up at my LBS who thought the amont of dish to get it to center was acceptable. The bike works well and so far the wheel is stable but only 200 miles at 36V.

I also have 2.5" Maxxis Hookworms that barely fit but ride wonderfully. I'm using a Montague Paratrooper frame and perhaps it has a bit more room than yours.

Feel free to ask for more details.