MXUS 250w how to increase the speed

[erian]

Hi everyone,
I commute to work every day a distance of 35km ( one direction). A flat thing where you can easily maintain a speed of 30-35 kmh.

For this purpose I purchased from a MXUS xf08 250w hub motor, with a 15mah bat 36v and an integrated lishui HL 1260 18A controller which lives in the bottom of the battery cradle. Pretty happy with this thing so far. I have been riding it with no problems, for 9 months. Very consistent little motor. And I was satisfied with it until now that law changed here. From now on any electric bike is permitted up to 45kmh as soon as you have a driver's license for a moped or motorcycle. That means I can be faster. Any suggestions on how I can increase the speed of my little MXUS? I think I am going to be pretty happy with 32-34 kmh I'm not looking for big things here..I still want to ride a bicycle...my LCD is a kingmeter J-lcd.

I'm pretty new to this so I'm kind of researching the options..

 

[markz]

Where is "here" ?

Just increase the voltage to 48V, because your controller most likely has 60V caps.
Then you gotta figure out how to increase your Low Voltage Cutoff.

As long as your bicycle looks like a regular bicycle, dont worry about the fuzz. Just ride respectfully and courteously, use your lights at night and you can go 65kph if you so wish down a residential road. I am on the road, on bicycle pathways whether they be the older fine red gravel or paved, but there I dont go much beyond 50kph, but I'd say on a regular basis I am doing 40kph.

 

[eee291]

Just increase the voltage to 48V, because your controller most likely has 60V caps.
JUST?

The only two rational ways to increase speed would be either to buy a Controller that can do flux weakening (Overspeed if you look on Aliexpress) or buy a 48V Battery/Controler combo to increase the speed that way.

If you don't feel like spending a lot of money then you could try to change the Motor winding termination from Star to Delta. I personally don't like this method since changing the termination will give you about 1.7x or so less torque but higher speed. And I really need torque in my region.

 

[markz]

Yes "JUST"

Its like I mentioned, I will restate and be more clear.
The controller most likely has 60V capacitors inside which makes it safe to use a 48V battery. If that controller had 100V, you could go 72V if you so wished, but thats highly UNLIKELY, and VERY LIKELY it has 60V caps so 48V battery is safe as it charges up to 13S x 4.20V per cell is 54.60 Volts which is plenty of headroom for safety.

The issue is as mentioned: The LVC or Low Voltage Cutoff for the new 48V. You dont ever really want to ride without a LVC because you want to save your battery pack. You can totally do it but human nature is to twist the throttle. Lets move on, most likely its like my Sunwin controller where the LVC is just printed circuit board pads with dobs of solder and labels identifying 36V and 48V. The dobs of solder act as a "jumper" so you could say its a switch.

It is all pretty easy, a $5 soldering iron, some $5 solder, $1.25 screw driver from Crap-O-Rama aka dollarstore.

Take pics and we can help you! It is very easy!

Now, if you dont want to do that. Then you gotta buy a new controller, and yes, you know it, ebay seller hksunwin can have some dirt cheap controllers. There is an entire thread on it here at E.S. Very in depth, lots of pictures in there.

 

[markz]

and an integrated lishui HL 1260 18A controller

Sorry I missed that.

edit 1
OK then, well now.
I am still betting that internal controller has 60V, so my previous posts still stand.

It is better to have an external controller, but you are only rocking 250W so shouldnt be an issue at all.

Now lets deal with your integrated internal controller.
You will have to open up the motor and see what you have in there for a controller.
Remember, we have to increase the LVC for 48V battery pack because your 36V LVC is too low for 48V pack.

36V (10S) battery pack will have a LVC of around 30V
48V (13S) battery pack will have a LVC of around 39V
If you have the 36V LVC of 30V on the controller, and you connected 48V pack, your battery would not last, because you'd drain that 48V pack all the way down to 30V before the cut off. That is 2.30V per cell, while 3.00V is the lowest, ideally 3.25V, even better 3.50V for longevity of the battery pack.

 

[eee291]

LOL, I missed that too.

Well, it looks like you might have to open that motor anyway.

EDIT: I mean who is just gonna throw out a perfectly good 36V battery and buy a 48V one just for some more speed?

 

[markz]

LOL, I missed that too.

Well, it looks like you might have to open that motor anyway.

:lol:

 

[markz]

FYI anyone who's reading this
Nice answer(s) over here, posted by same thread starter erian from Denmark.
Makes one wonder how the Denmark fuzz are in the liberties of ebikers.


http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/threads/how-to-increase-the-speed-mxus-xf08-from-woosh.32747/

Woosh says this: the method is the same, the manual is here:
http://wooshbikes.co.uk/manuals/KM-529-LCD-Display.pdf

 

[erian]

Hmm you got me there. Yes I posted to gather info/opinions. Ebikers are much more sustainable to environment, so why not? As soon as you have a moped license you can push your ebike to 45kph but no that's way toouch for me. I still want to ride a bicycle...thanks for the guidance everyone!

 

[markz]

Hmm you got me there. Yes I posted to gather info/opinions.

Nothing wrong there.

Just leading others to a possible fix is all. Some might not know about pedelecsUK or however its spelled.

 

[erian]

and an integrated lishui HL 1260 18A controller

Sorry I missed that.

edit 1
OK then, well now.
I am still betting that internal controller has 60V, so my previous posts still stand.

It is better to have an external controller, but you are only rocking 250W so shouldnt be an issue at all.

Now lets deal with your integrated internal controller.
You will have to open up the motor and see what you have in there for a controller.
Remember, we have to increase the LVC for 48V battery pack because your 36V LVC is too low for 48V pack.

36V (10S) battery pack will have a LVC of around 30V
48V (13S) battery pack will have a LVC of around 39V
If you have the 36V LVC of 30V on the controller, and you connected 48V pack, your battery would not last, because you'd drain that 48V pack all the way down to 30V before the cut off. That is 2.30V per cell, while 3.00V is the lowest, ideally 3.25V, even better 3.50V for longevity of the battery pack.

Sounds easy, my controller is in the battery mount not in the motor, so I will leave the motor itself in . I will open the battery cradle and post photos, just to know what I have and what are the options. But to be honest I'm a bit confused. The posts from pedelecs.co.uk say that it can be done from the LCD, here it is obvious that some fiddling is necessary. Thanks for the great help I'll keep you posted.

 

[erian]

These are the photos from the integrated to the battery controller

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1LN02U4MfjOuqCjF4XUyMvoAnfsS5eR6x
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1gVz-0Rn345_UUlVPahldmQdkGQg-O9dV

 

[jordanjozsef]

You could stick with your battery pack, you can check the top speed of your motor can do when you lift up the Wheel on full throttle. That's the maximum speed your motor can give at a certain voltage. Of course when it's spinning 50 km/h, you won't go 50km/h, unless you give more amp to your motor (more power to make it spin faster when load is applied). You can give more amp, by upgrading your controller / battery pack, because maybe it just can't give you enough power, cheap li ion batteries can give you about 3-4 A per cell, so you need to connect at least 5 parallel to give you 20 Amps. Upgrading a controller is more expensive, so if your battery can give you enough power, you can look up for a mod called "shunt resistor". That resistor limits the max. amp the controller can give to the motor. But the first thing to do is to check the no load top speed and then the max. amp the battery can give you and after that look for that shunt mod, it won't cost you any money.

 

[markz]

Interesting bicycle image on the capacitors.
CD288H Capacitors are rated for, in your case, 50, 63 and 100V. That is why you gotta see the printing. But likely 63V.
http://www.nantongcapacitors.com/web/CD288H.htm

Maybe they covered up the voltage rating for the capacitor, with their bicycle image. Seems very very odd!

 

[erian]

indeed weird.

There is another capacitor in the further right of the image a smaller one than those 2 on the left that is actually noted as 63V if that says anything..

the smaller ones in the middle have a marking of 25V.

 

[markz]

Its those big cap's you gotta find a voltage value on!

 

[erian]

You could stick with your battery pack, you can check the top speed of your motor can do when you lift up the Wheel on full throttle. That's the maximum speed your motor can give at a certain voltage. Of course when it's spinning 50 km/h, you won't go 50km/h, unless you give more amp to your motor (more power to make it spin faster when load is applied). You can give more amp, by upgrading your controller / battery pack, because maybe it just can't give you enough power, cheap li ion batteries can give you about 3-4 A per cell, so you need to connect at least 5 parallel to give you 20 Amps. Upgrading a controller is more expensive, so if your battery can give you enough power, you can look up for a mod called "shunt resistor". That resistor limits the max. amp the controller can give to the motor. But the first thing to do is to check the no load top speed and then the max. amp the battery can give you and after that look for that shunt mod, it won't cost you any money.

the motor goes up to 29,8 kmh on full throttle, measured by 2 different tachometers. it is active and working on PAS until the bike reaches 43kmh if you change the lcd settings to maximum pas speed and pedal on the stand. My battery, is a 15ah down tube one with Panasonic 18650PF cells. Cheap? No it wasnt at all. that is why I do not want to just get rid of it..

Specifications of Panasonic 18650PF cell
capacity 2900mAh - max discharge 10A

 

[erian]

Its those big cap's you gotta find a voltage value on!

Yeps I got that, problem is that the whole controller is on the bottom of the battery cradle and whoever made this setup had a very realistic problem of ensuring a waterproof environment. So they literally covered the whole thing in some kind of trasnparent silicone. It is in the middle of a silicone block. I wonder how heat is dissipated from that thing...

So unless i melt evrything away with the heat gun i have no access to the controller board..

 

[markz]

Interesting, that silicone is good for reliability and keeps vibration of components to a minimum.

The heat comes from the fets, and usually have a CPU type heat transfer paste, fets bolts to aluminum for heat dissipation.
TBH with my sunwin controller, I have 2 bolts instead of 8 for fet-to-alum block mounting, not much paste left from original. One of my caps came loose, I forget what the sign was when that happened, the sign in terms of how the ebike operated. Instead of the through hole for that cap, I soldered in 4" wires and moved the cap, hot glued it where there was room. Had a battery short on the alum case end plates, nothing happened other then took a chunk out of end plate. Pretty durable unit, that is why I am fond of the controllers sold by hksunwin on ebay, and that is why I have purchased and still have 2 or 3 in total.

 

[Yungyakz]

Just increase the voltage to 48V, because your controller most likely has 60V caps.
JUST?

The only two rational ways to increase speed would be either to buy a Controller that can do flux weakening (Overspeed if you look on Aliexpress) or buy a 48V Battery/Controler combo to increase the speed that way.

If you don't feel like spending a lot of money then you could try to change the Motor winding termination from Star to Delta. I personally don't like this method since changing the termination will give you about 1.7x or so less torque but higher speed. And I really need torque in my region.

if you look over the forums people have made delta wye switches with 3 relays which i plan on doing. you can put them in the hub or have 6 phase wires coming out the motor

 

[dogman dan]

Pretty much, the best option you have to get faster, is a re do with a 48v kit and battery. That's too costly though, unless you at least sell off the old setup for a decent price.

Running what you have at 48v might work, and could be tested by adding another 12v battery, especially if you have something around that is 12v, like a lead battery. The test can be done with the wheel off the ground, but not riding.

48v could fry the controller, or just not work because the controller has over voltage protection that causes it to not turn on at 48v. But it might work, and gain you about 6 kph more than what you have now.

But to really go fast, a much bigger motor, and stronger battery, including more amps on that new controller. Right now your setup is weak and slow, by design. Ride it another summer, and save for next season. By then you will be closer to wearing out that 36v battery, and able to afford some more speed.

 

[Sunder]

Totally out of the box thinking... And will probably be rejected...

But if your frame will accept it, bigger wheel, along with more help from you.

This will increase the top speed of the motor, but 250w isn't enough to get you any faster. But adding your pedalling power will help overcome some of that.

Down side of course is on hills, if you don't provide enough assistance, you could burn out the motor.