My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[Marmalade]

.. a mini review.. have only spent a few days and approx 100km riding it, so a grain or two of salt may apply :lol:

Essentially this is my first owned e-mtb but I have used friends (lower powered) bikes on the trails so I have something to base judgment upon.

First off, this bike wins no weight contests! I weighed it (with the 21ah batt) at a tad over 31kg. My neighbours specialised levo is around 24kg, so the 1000 at standstill feels quite the tank in comparison.

However, given the dollops of power on hand the incredible mass of the bike becomes a bit of a distant memory. It pulls and does so with aplomb in most gears. Most euro and US bikes are limited to 25kph (without hacks) but the 1000 quickly exceeds these speeds and there is a real adrenaline rush when doing so. Pedal assist is generally smooth, but definitely not up to the refinement of the current commercial offerings, it feels like it's either on or it's off. The bosch and shimano drives seem to have a proportional curve that feeds power on far more gracefully. The drive is also incredibly noisy in comparison and there's no fooling bystanders or other bikers that you are not riding under your own steam...

Efficiency... unless you are lazy, the bike can PAS comfortably on eco1-3 all day long. My bike travelled nearly 25km's on varied hilly road at an avg of 17kph and used only 10% battery. However I'm only 65kg so that played a big part no doubt. Sport mode is well,just what is says... tons of power applied quickly and aggressively. And it shows by chewing through the battery. Great for getting from A-B as fast as possible regardless of what stands between, and perfect for showing (scaring) friends who have never experienced an e-bike before..and even some that have.

Having owned an FS Kona for many years, the 1000 seems to handle quite well on the track, although its a bit 'crashy' underfoot and less predictable because of the weight. More experience needed in riding trails with this but I don't think it would keep up with some of the brand name e-mtb offerings because of the higher CG due to the big battery and heavier frame overall. But given the loads of power available this inconvenience can easily be forgiven and it's genuinely far more fun on the less technical parts of a track, blasting past a 8k levo on a straight bit of dirt is absolutely grin inducing But certainly won't win any prizes on the tight twisty bits, and largish jumps seem to be a little like wrestling a bear in zero gravity, this is a lot of bike to try and straighten if things go a bit skewiff.

It's also a great bike just for cruising,and even my partner who is not an avid rider loved the stability and effortlessness at covering distances quickly. She was initially terrified but quickly got the hang of it, so much so she left me behind on my normal bike quite a few times

Overall, I think this bike for the price is a fairly good compromise. I certainly wouldn't pay for (or be able to afford) an electric specialised, trek or giant at the moment. So, the AM-1000 fills this gap quite nicely. Yes, it's a bit crude and crass and will most likely upset the 250-350W snooty brigade on the trails with it's noise, speed and industrial looking engineering. But so far it's been the best fun I've had on 2 wheels in over 30 years of riding.

Well done Frey.

 

[Ivanovitch_k]

nice review, thanks !

These drives all have the infamous bafang symptoms i.e shitty programming and undergreased from the factory, so:

> The PAS behaviour can be made to feel more natural by tweaking the settings with a progr cable (see first few pages of the topic for settings)

> gear noise can be reduced quite a bit by packing in more moly grease (no Nylon gear to worry in here so moly is OK)

 

[trooper5707]

Hi trooper5707,
maybe the same issue as described in this post?
https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=91035&p=1382410&hilit=bent#p1382410

Yes, that sounds quite likely. I am a typical oversized American, 215lbs (but working on it!) - so I prob was bottomed out on the suspension and did the exact same thing that happened to me. I'll make sure to check loaded when I replace the derailer.

Ivy assured me they check the chain length, and that could not possibly have caused the derailer lockup.

 

[dalysea]

Hi all,

I have some sad news to report. My weight plus the hills of San Francisco finally proved to be too much for the Bafang motor. The display powers on, the battery is full, but neither the throttle nor the pedal assist are getting any power from the motor.

I'll be shipping the motor to a Bafang support person in Las Vegas to see what the specific cause of death was, and let you all know in case it is helpful information.

I want to say that this is not Frey's fault and I still think Bafang is the best motor to use. I don't know yet what happened to it, but in Bafang's defense, I've attached a photo from the top of the hill that defeated it. This is one of the Twin Peaks, the highest points in the city of San Francisco.




Cheers,
Sean

 

[Ivanovitch_k]

I have some sad news to report. My weight plus the hills of San Francisco finally proved to be too much for the Bafang motor. The display powers on, the battery is full, but neither the throttle nor the pedal assist are getting any power from the motor.

damn, two Ultras gone in this thread already

Hope frey or bafang gets you a new one asap...

The display did not give any error code ? Looking forward to the cause of death anyways.

 

[dalysea]

I have some sad news to report. My weight plus the hills of San Francisco finally proved to be too much for the Bafang motor. The display powers on, the battery is full, but neither the throttle nor the pedal assist are getting any power from the motor.

damn, two Ultras gone in this thread already

Hope frey or bafang gets you a new one asap...

The display did not give any error code ? Looking forward to the cause of death anyways.

The error code was 04, which I've seen listed as either "Throttle not homing/throttle not returning to zero state" or "Battery overvoltage"

This was the 2nd time that I'd used the G510.500 motor with a 52 volt battery. Joe Zhang from Bafang says the G510.500 is not intended to be used with a 52 volt battery, but he said this right after I mentioned that, so I'm not convinced. The specs on the G510.500 are not on Bafang's website, and he explained that's because they only sell them to customers who ask for them. He said he can upgrade it to a G510.1000, but the controller was already showing 48V when connected with a programming cable, so I'm pretty sure these motors were already upgraded. What I actually wanted was to trade it in for an actual G510.1000 with the orange cover, labeled G510.1000, etc. not just a controller upgrade, which I think is what he's offering.

Anyway, I tried swapping out the throttle or not having any throttle connected at all in case that was the issue. Neither helped.

Thanks,
Sean

 

[FREYebikes]

Hi Sean,

Bafang told that the motor in 500W version can't afford the 52V battery. that's why it burnt. We haven't realized it. if Bafang in US can't solve the motor issue in your side, Please contact us. we will support. Please don't worry.
we will suggest customers to take 48V which is fit better than 52V for the motor.

Hi all,

I have some sad news to report. My weight plus the hills of San Francisco finally proved to be too much for the Bafang motor. The display powers on, the battery is full, but neither the throttle nor the pedal assist are getting any power from the motor.

I'll be shipping the motor to a Bafang support person in Las Vegas to see what the specific cause of death was, and let you all know in case it is helpful information.

I want to say that this is not Frey's fault and I still think Bafang is the best motor to use. I don't know yet what happened to it, but in Bafang's defense, I've attached a photo from the top of the hill that defeated it. This is one of the Twin Peaks, the highest points in the city of San Francisco.


20180807_221134-2095x1197.jpg

Cheers,
Sean

 

[FREYebikes]

Hi,

We are really sorry about the EX1 not available because of the short supply and longer delivery time. We owe several sets of EX1 to some customer, as supplier told, the set should be available around 20th, August, so I think it will be available soon after 1 week more, and then we can arrange it for you.
About the color, maybe we have some misunderstanding earlier, so far we do not have polish alloy in good surface treatment, only the alloy original color we've showed earlier. but not sure whether customer can accept it as a finish product or not.

The charger plug looks like a 3 pin Mini-DIN, but without the square center post. Do they come without that post? Can you rid yourself of

it's not DIN. The closest match I have found is GX-16 3-pins.

However, the stock cable is Reention-branded (the mfg. of the battery case), and It looks like the individual pin diameter is smaller than the GX.

Anyhow, Ivy is able to sell the spare charge cables. As well as the discharge plug & sockets.

I made an 3pin XLR to reention GX to use the satiator, works fine.

I am very impressed with both Frey and Ivy! First rate communication for what must be an endless stream of questions.

I wasn't impressed and was disappointed and frustrated. My bike was supposed to be polished aluminum. Came flat black. Was supposed to have SRAM EX1 installed. Still haven"t got the groupset, but I see someone just got one delivered with SRAM recently? Ivy said none were available 6 weeks ago and wouldn't ship until Aug 20 a few days ago, so somebody's fibbing.

Lots of miscommunications despite my best efforts to pin things down and ask for updates via multiple messages. It was also delivered a few weeks later than promised. All-in-all, plenty of needless issues arose due to poor communication and/or language barrier.

 

[hoojsn]

I have some sad news to report. My weight plus the hills of San Francisco finally proved to be too much for the Bafang motor. The display powers on, the battery is full, but neither the throttle nor the pedal assist are getting any power from the motor.

damn, two Ultras gone in this thread already

Hope frey or bafang gets you a new one asap...

The display did not give any error code ? Looking forward to the cause of death anyways.

The error code was 04, which I've seen listed as either "Throttle not homing/throttle not returning to zero state" or "Battery overvoltage"

This was the 2nd time that I'd used the G510.500 motor with a 52 volt battery. Joe Zhang from Bafang says the G510.500 is not intended to be used with a 52 volt battery, but he said this right after I mentioned that, so I'm not convinced. The specs on the G510.500 are not on Bafang's website, and he explained that's because they only sell them to customers who ask for them. He said he can upgrade it to a G510.1000, but the controller was already showing 48V when connected with a programming cable, so I'm pretty sure these motors were already upgraded. What I actually wanted was to trade it in for an actual G510.1000 with the orange cover, labeled G510.1000, etc. not just a controller upgrade, which I think is what he's offering.

Anyway, I tried swapping out the throttle or not having any throttle connected at all in case that was the issue. Neither helped.

Thanks,
Sean

I don't understand why people ask for 500watts in the 1st place with the Ultra? Mine was with the silver & black cover and it still 1,000 watts. 2,000 miles on it and ride still smooth as silk. Maybe those think 1000watts too much should use M600.. which are more Hi-tech.

 

[trooper5707]

Update on my snapped derailer, I went to install the new one this weekend and the derailer carrier was severely bent. Must have taken a hit in shipping. I was able to straighten it then install a new shimano XT. Dialed in the setup, set my sag up (I was like 75% as shipped - took the pressure up to 25%)

Unfortunately it was a pretty rainy day - so only got a little test riding, but it is def shifting fine now and riding well.

 

[dalysea]

This was the 2nd time that I'd used the G510.500 motor with a 52 volt battery. Joe Zhang from Bafang says the G510.500 is not intended to be used with a 52 volt battery, but he said this right after I mentioned that, so I'm not convinced. The specs on the G510.500 are not on Bafang's website, and he explained that's because they only sell them to customers who ask for them. He said he can upgrade it to a G510.1000, but the controller was already showing 48V when connected with a programming cable, so I'm pretty sure these motors were already upgraded. What I actually wanted was to trade it in for an actual G510.1000 with the orange cover, labeled G510.1000, etc. not just a controller upgrade, which I think is what he's offering.

I don't understand why people ask for 500watts in the 1st place with the Ultra? Mine was with the silver & black cover and it still 1,000 watts. 2,000 miles on it and ride still smooth as silk. Maybe those think 1000watts too much should use M600.. which are more Hi-tech.

If you have the silver and black cover, then you probably have a G510.500 motor. Not to speak on their behalf, but the likely reason customers such as Frey obtained these motors was that Bafang is able to upgrade them to 1000 watts. Now Bafang is telling Frey (and me) that a G510.500 cannot handle a 52 volt battery like the G510.1000 can. If you have a silver and black cover and it is a G510.500 and you're using a 52 volt battery for 2000 miles, then this is good news. Maybe mine was not upgraded to 1000 watts properly by Bafang. We'll find out.

But just to be clear, no one was asking for 500 watts, that's just the name of the model of motor, and I suspect it is the model you have, maybe not.

Also, did you go in and change the default programming? By default they are shipped with Limited Current set to 12 Amps. 48 volts x 12 Amps is 576 watts. As compared to the Frey that I have with G510.1000 with orange and black cover that came with default Limited Current set at 30 amps.

Here are screen shots of the controller information for both the G510.500 and the G510.1000. Both controllers are rated at a nominal 48 volts and max current of 30 amps, i.e. 1440 watts.







Cheers,
Sean

 

[hoojsn]

This was the 2nd time that I'd used the G510.500 motor with a 52 volt battery. Joe Zhang from Bafang says the G510.500 is not intended to be used with a 52 volt battery, but he said this right after I mentioned that, so I'm not convinced. The specs on the G510.500 are not on Bafang's website, and he explained that's because they only sell them to customers who ask for them. He said he can upgrade it to a G510.1000, but the controller was already showing 48V when connected with a programming cable, so I'm pretty sure these motors were already upgraded. What I actually wanted was to trade it in for an actual G510.1000 with the orange cover, labeled G510.1000, etc. not just a controller upgrade, which I think is what he's offering.

I don't understand why people ask for 500watts in the 1st place with the Ultra? Mine was with the silver & black cover and it still 1,000 watts. 2,000 miles on it and ride still smooth as silk. Maybe those think 1000watts too much should use M600.. which are more Hi-tech.

If you have the silver and black cover, then you probably have a G510.500 motor. Not to speak on their behalf, but the likely reason customers such as Frey obtained these motors was that Bafang is able to upgrade them to 1000 watts. Now Bafang is telling Frey (and me) that a G510.500 cannot handle a 52 volt battery like the G510.1000 can. If you have a silver and black cover and it is a G510.500 and you're using a 52 volt battery for 2000 miles, then this is good news. Maybe mine was not upgraded to 1000 watts properly by Bafang. We'll find out.

But just to be clear, no one was asking for 500 watts, that's just the name of the model of motor, and I suspect it is the model you have, maybe not.

Also, did you go in and change the default programming? By default they are shipped with Limited Current set to 12 Amps. 48 volts x 12 Amps is 576 watts.

Here are screen shots of the controller information for both the G510.500 and the G510.1000. Both controllers are rated at a nominal 48 volts and max current of 30 amps, i.e. 1440 watts.


G510.500_controller.jpg

G510.1000_controller.jpg


Cheers,
Sean

My definitely 1000 watts but came with 48V battery. My setting was default but I ask them to remove the speed limitation that I thought might be difficult to set. But after reading thru the manual it was in fact pretty simple. In regard of Orange or Silver plate, the factory could request the colour that you want. You can look at another suppler FLX.. their bikes comes with Silver Plate too.."Orange Colour doesn't blend in with the bike colour" No offending if you order 1000 watts, and the factory send you 500 watts, bike factory should be responsible & liable for the wrong motor. I could easily achieved 35 mph with this beast.

 

[dalysea]

My definitely 1000 watts but came with 48V battery. My setting was default but I ask them to remove the speed limitation that I thought might be difficult to set. But after reading thru the manual it was in fact pretty simple. In regard of Orange or Silver plate, the factory could request the colour that you want. You can look at another suppler FLX.. their bikes comes with Silver Plate too.."Orange Colour doesn't blend in with the bike colour" No offending if you order 1000 watts, and the factory send you 500 watts, bike factory should be responsible & liable for the wrong motor. I could easily achieved 35 mph with this beast.

I think you are still misunderstanding. The color of the plate is not a preference for me, it was an indicator of which model the motor is.

You imply that I ordered a 1000 watt motor and was sent a 500 watt motor instead. You are mistaken. That is not what happened, so I'm not offended at all.

My G510.500 was absolutely capable of over 35mph with no problems. I won't jump to any conclusions about why it isn't supplying power at the moment, but I can safely say it wasn't speed that caused the issue.

Removing the speed limitation is not the same as programming the Current Limitation. But if you can achieve 35mph, then, in all likelihood, they set your Current Limitation to 30 Amps.

If you believe that you have a G510.1000, please take a photo of the bottom of your motor and post it. I'm honestly glad you are really enjoying your Frey e-bike. I like them too. I'm just trying to make sure we share accurate technical information here.

Thanks,
Sean

 

[hoojsn]

My definitely 1000 watts but came with 48V battery. My setting was default but I ask them to remove the speed limitation that I thought might be difficult to set. But after reading thru the manual it was in fact pretty simple. In regard of Orange or Silver plate, the factory could request the colour that you want. You can look at another suppler FLX.. their bikes comes with Silver Plate too.."Orange Colour doesn't blend in with the bike colour" No offending if you order 1000 watts, and the factory send you 500 watts, bike factory should be responsible & liable for the wrong motor. I could easily achieved 35 mph with this beast.

I think you are still misunderstanding. The color of the plate is not a preference for me, it was an indicator of which model the motor is.

You imply that I ordered a 1000 watt motor and was sent a 500 watt motor instead. You are mistaken. That is not what happened, so I'm not offended at all.

My G510.500 was absolutely capable of over 35mph with no problems. I won't jump to any conclusions about why it isn't supplying power at the moment, but I can safely say it wasn't speed that caused the issue.

Removing the speed limitation is not the same as programming the Current Limitation. But if you can achieve 35mph, then, in all likelihood, they set your Current Limitation to 30 Amps.

If you believe that you have a G510.1000, please take a photo of the bottom of your motor and post it. I'm honestly glad you are really enjoying your Frey e-bike. I like them too. I'm just trying to make sure we share accurate technical information here.

Thanks,
Sean

Thanks Sean, actually I really didn't know they put label below the motor until you mention it. Enclosed the photo.

 

[dalysea]

Thanks Sean, actually I really didn't know they put label below the motor until you mention it. Enclosed the photo.

Thank you! So my theory about the cover identifying the model was not correct, that is good to know, thanks again for posting the photo. The bike looks really good in all black!

I left my tools at work so I wasn't able to take my motor off for shipping yet. I'll keep y'all updated.

Cheers,
Sean

 

[Hardcore]

Hi all,

I'm having the Sram ex1 cassette but the chain started skipping on the lower two sprockets. Does someone know how to get replacements for these (in Europe)?

Cheers,
H

 

[leelorr]

The chain skipping can just be a derailleur adjustment. The last bike I ordered did this until I adjusted it so that the rear derailleur wrapped around more of the sprocket (and engaged more teeth).

 

[Ivanovitch_k]

I'm having the Sram ex1 cassette but the chain started skipping on the lower two sprockets. Does someone know how to get replacements for these (in Europe)?

might be available here or here but overall it seems out of stock everywhere else and I've heard rumors of sram discontinuing the EX-1 line...

 

[dalysea]

"The chain path across the cassette is highly controlled. The chain can only sit in a specific place on the cassette, correction teeth ensure this happens on every rotation or shift if the chain is out of sync."

Could the skipping be from the correction they talk about?

 

[leelorr]

Here is what was causing the chain skipping on only the smaller sprockets in my case:

The chain has to have the correct number of links for the range from smallest sprocket to largest sprocket, and size of the sprockets you have. Notice how the rear derailleur angles much more to the front of the bike to take up the slack in the chain as you shift onto the smaller rear sprockets, and how the angle of the derailleur angles much more to the rear when you shift into the larger sprockets. The number of chain links used is usually set by the manufacturer for the bike and sprocket range, but if the cassette is changed, the number of links may need to be changed so that the derailleur falls into the correct position (angled forward or reverse) when you shift. When you shift onto the smaller rear sprockets, and the rear derailleur is not angled forward enough, there may not be enough chain wrapped around the small sprocket to keep the chain from skipping over the very few teeth it is touching. When the rear derailleur is more forward, the chain wraps around more teeth of the sprocket, and the skipping is stopped. There is also an adjustment on the rear derailleur that changes it's front to rear angle. This adjustment, or the number of chain links can both cause this symptom. It may be that derailleur adjustment is not correct, or the number of links in the chain needs to be changed. If the rear cassette was changed, then this condition is even more likely. Or the bike just may not have been adjusted correctly. In my case I had installed a cassette with different sprocket sizes, and the rear derailleur was angled more rearward, so the chain was only wrapping around 2 teeth on the smaller sprockets. I used the adjustment screw on the derailleur to angle it more forward, and the problem was fixed because of the additional tooth that the chain was then wrapping around.
Good luck,
Lorrin

 

[Ender2000]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know a decent rear bike light that connects with the g510? I ride a lot at night and I'm very interested in having a rear light that I don't separately have to charge or get off my bike to turn on.

 

[trooper5707]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know a decent rear bike light that connects with the g510? I ride a lot at night and I'm very interested in having a rear light that I don't separately have to charge or get off my bike to turn on.

I had them wire one in on mine, both headlight and tail. I can see if I can find any branding on it tonight.

 

[dalysea]

Hey guys,

Does anyone know a decent rear bike light that connects with the g510? I ride a lot at night and I'm very interested in having a rear light that I don't separately have to charge or get off my bike to turn on.

Tom L had some great posts a while back on wiring up the lights. Has anyone tried the Nip n Tuck light set?

 

[Richard N]

My definitely 1000 watts but came with 48V battery. My setting was default but I ask them to remove the speed limitation that I thought might be difficult to set. But after reading thru the manual it was in fact pretty simple. In regard of Orange or Silver plate, the factory could request the colour that you want. You can look at another suppler FLX.. their bikes comes with Silver Plate too.."Orange Colour doesn't blend in with the bike colour" No offending if you order 1000 watts, and the factory send you 500 watts, bike factory should be responsible & liable for the wrong motor. I could easily achieved 35 mph with this beast.

I think you are still misunderstanding. The color of the plate is not a preference for me, it was an indicator of which model the motor is.

You imply that I ordered a 1000 watt motor and was sent a 500 watt motor instead. You are mistaken. That is not what happened, so I'm not offended at all.

My G510.500 was absolutely capable of over 35mph with no problems. I won't jump to any conclusions about why it isn't supplying power at the moment, but I can safely say it wasn't speed that caused the issue.

Removing the speed limitation is not the same as programming the Current Limitation. But if you can achieve 35mph, then, in all likelihood, they set your Current Limitation to 30 Amps.

If you believe that you have a G510.1000, please take a photo of the bottom of your motor and post it. I'm honestly glad you are really enjoying your Frey e-bike. I like them too. I'm just trying to make sure we share accurate technical information here.

Thanks,
Sean

Thanks Sean, actually I really didn't know they put label below the motor until you mention it. Enclosed the photo.

Could you tell us which supplier you ordered you bike from?

 

[dalysea]

In regard of Orange or Silver plate, the factory could request the colour that you want. You can look at another suppler FLX.. their bikes comes with Silver Plate too.."Orange Colour doesn't blend in with the bike colour"

Could you tell us which supplier you ordered you bike from?

He mentioned FLX, not sure if that is the supplier from whom he actually ordered, but I was curious so I did contact them:

Sagui Aug 15, 03:58

Hi Sean,
​
​We have the G510.1000 motor, the motors were custom made for us and we didn't want to have the orange logo. The FLX Blade uses the Bafang Ultra mid-drive motor. It's rated 1000W nominal power and can reach 1400 watts of peak power.

But the next day a woman from FLX called and said she hadn't noticed it before, but she had figured out what I meant by the logo being orange. So it seems they can offer both (as hoojsn said). Bafang will give you whatever you ask as long as you're buying 50 or more motors.

Not sure if this is even why you were asking, but just sharing since I thought it was mildly interesting.

Cheers,
Sean