My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[barbarossa]

I ordered two Frey Fat 1000 on february.
I hope I have done the right choose for me and my wife!
We wanted a bike to travel on the road and and on the mountain, so why we do not buy a Frey AM 1000?
Because for an old guy like me (50) I supposed that a full fat was one of the more comfortable bike to travel on the mountain also if you see the frame measures.
We want to organize a 1000km trip this summer on Santiago de Compostela route and I hope I have done the right choose.
But after reading the last pages of this thread (regarding brakes, batteries quality) I am afraid to have some serious problem that could stop us during the 1000 km trip......It could be a disaster because you cannot do nothing to finish the travel....
Any other who have experience with this bike and with a long trip on fat?
Any one can suggest me which check I have to to to avoid the main problems that could afflict those bike?
here some photos of those beautiful bikes!

Hi !
really nice bikes. aggressive yellow

perhaps the discussion about the problems is a little misleading.
let me write a few points of my view:

- Let's talk about NON-FREY ebikes : there are also problems. even broken frames, defective lights, exchange of BOSCH motors, problems with gears, problems with freehubs and so on. the list is long. and sometimes you wonder why even a $9000 bike has such problems.

- It might be a surprise (after all my posts): but I am a big FREY fan !!!!!!! :thumb:
I even purchased my second Frey bike (Frey EX) during Corona lockdown (without rims,tires, disc rotors, display and brakes - I had many spare parts from my Frey AM1000 and want(ed) to exchange my "dream" parts step by step).

- My Frey AM1000 did not disappoint me at all. It is and was a really nice bike and a nice hobby !!!! meanwhile it has around 3500km.

- These Frey bikes are rock solid bikes. Not everything is perfect and perhaps not each millimeter and logic of construction is perfect. but hey, after 3500km I must say: nothing could stop my AM1000 :lol:

so in the end: would I buy the Frey AM1000 again if I would have known all things that I know now : YES, YES, YES, YES, YES !!!! (as written before I even purchased a second one. Not everything is perfect with this Frey EX, too - but hey, I have never seen such a massive rear suspension before - love it !!!!)

anyways:
before starting a 1000km trip I would try to get familiar with the bikes and check everything carefully - regardless of the bike is a $10.000 or a $3.000 bike or a FREY or Haibike or Specialized or whatever. perhaps you can give it to a local bike shop for a basic check before your trip begins !? never a bad idea...if you can't or don't want to do it yourself. bike is bike and most parts are very common.
the risk of having a problem is not higher or lower than with any other (E-)bike.

of course my statement does not answer your concrete questions about the fat bikes. but I just wanted to give "my two cents" about Frey (bikes) in general...

 

[Daxxie]

We want to organize a 1000km trip this summer on Santiago de Compostela route and I hope I have done the right choose.
But after reading the last pages of this thread (regarding brakes, batteries quality) I am afraid to have some serious problem that could stop us during the 1000 km trip......It could be a disaster because you cannot do nothing to finish the travel....
Any other who have experience with this bike and with a long trip on fat?

You will be fine. Fatbikes are great for travelling. Very comfortable.
I did a lot of miles in Spain with my fatbike.
My ultra is super reliable. Just take some extra inner tubes. I did have lot of flats there.
And fat inner tubes are hard to find.
If something breaks down, there are bicycle shops everywhere!

What you should worry about Is the legal matter.
These bikes are illegal in most parts of Europe and not allowed on the road.
Be very aware of the risks you are taking.
Limit them with software to 25km/h. Disconnect the throttle or make a hidden switch.
Take away all labels that say 1000W (also remove the engravings on the bottom of the motor)
Buy some “legal 250W” stickers.

Don’t want to scare you.
I ride in Europe all the time with my illegal bike but I am VERY carefull and very aware.

 

[FlyingFinn]

We want to organize a 1000km trip this summer on Santiago de Compostela route and I hope I have done the right choose.
But after reading the last pages of this thread (regarding brakes, batteries quality) I am afraid to have some serious problem that could stop us during the 1000 km trip......It could be a disaster because you cannot do nothing to finish the travel....
Any other who have experience with this bike and with a long trip on fat?

You will be fine. Fatbikes are great for travelling. Very comfortable.
I did a lot of miles in Spain with my fatbike.
My ultra is super reliable. Just take some extra inner tubes. I did have lot of flats there.
And fat inner tubes are hard to find.
If something breaks down, there are bicycle shops everywhere!

What you should worry about Is the legal matter.
These bikes are illegal in most parts of Europe and not allowed on the road.
Be very aware of the risks you are taking.
Limit them with software to 25km/h. Disconnect the throttle or make a hidden switch.
Take away all labels that say 1000W (also remove the engravings on the bottom of the motor)
Buy some “legal 250W” stickers.

Don’t want to scare you.
I ride in Europe all the time with my illegal bike but I am VERY carefull and very aware.

I have experience on legality views from Finland, Sweden and Poland. Cops don’t give a shit. Maybe if you would blast 50 kmh on downtown Madrid they might start to ask questions. In Europe 1000-1500W unrestricted bikes are so rare and unavailable to buy from stores that maybe 1% of cops even know that such vehicles exist. You are 1000 times more likely to end up fined whilst driving a car.

A few months ago a cop asked me wheter I was using a speedbox. I answered no and said that I pedaled hard. The cop replied to me that he switched to speedbox himself and had never driven without since

 

[brake034]

Don't travel the South French route to Santiago: https://ebike-mtb.com/en/france-bans-illegal-emtb-tuning/
If you put 250 watt stickers on and they put the bike on the roller test bench........

And don't think they do not have those roller benches, they do and have done for a long time finding tuned mopeds.

 

[Trob777]

Might grand workshop you have there Tom
Plus a tolerant partner I guess,
Hahaha

 

[speedsix]

I ordered two Frey Fat 1000 on february.
I hope I have done the right choose for me and my wife!
We wanted a bike to travel on the road and and on the mountain, so why we do not buy a Frey AM 1000?
Because for an old guy like me (50) I supposed that a full fat was one of the more comfortable bike to travel on the mountain also if you see the frame measures.
We want to organize a 1000km trip this summer on Santiago de Compostela route and I hope I have done the right choose.
But after reading the last pages of this thread (regarding brakes, batteries quality) I am afraid to have some serious problem that could stop us during the 1000 km trip......It could be a disaster because you cannot do nothing to finish the travel....
Any other who have experience with this bike and with a long trip on fat?
Any one can suggest me which check I have to to to avoid the main problems that could afflict those bike?
here some photos of those beautiful bikes!

Hi !
really nice bikes. aggressive yellow

perhaps the discussion about the problems is a little misleading.
let me write a few points of my view:

- Let's talk about NON-FREY ebikes : there are also problems. even broken frames, defective lights, exchange of BOSCH motors, problems with gears, problems with freehubs and so on. the list is long. and sometimes you wonder why even a $9000 bike has such problems.

- It might be a surprise (after all my posts): but I am a big FREY fan !!!!!!! :thumb:
I even purchased my second Frey bike (Frey EX) during Corona lockdown (without rims,tires, disc rotors, display and brakes - I had many spare parts from my Frey AM1000 and want(ed) to exchange my "dream" parts step by step).

- My Frey AM1000 did not disappoint me at all. It is and was a really nice bike and a nice hobby !!!! meanwhile it has around 3500km.

- These Frey bikes are rock solid bikes. Not everything is perfect and perhaps not each millimeter and logic of construction is perfect. but hey, after 3500km I must say: nothing could stop my AM1000 :lol:

so in the end: would I buy the Frey AM1000 again if I would have known all things that I know now : YES, YES, YES, YES, YES !!!! (as written before I even purchased a second one. Not everything is perfect with this Frey EX, too - but hey, I have never seen such a massive rear suspension before - love it !!!!)

anyways:
before starting a 1000km trip I would try to get familiar with the bikes and check everything carefully - regardless of the bike is a $10.000 or a $3.000 bike or a FREY or Haibike or Specialized or whatever. perhaps you can give it to a local bike shop for a basic check before your trip begins !? never a bad idea...if you can't or don't want to do it yourself. bike is bike and most parts are very common.
the risk of having a problem is not higher or lower than with any other (E-)bike.

of course my statement does not answer your concrete questions about the fat bikes. but I just wanted to give "my two cents" about Frey (bikes) in general...

thank you for your answer, I really appreciated your clarifications that have given me confidence in my purchase.
Definitely I will do as you say, I will take my bikes to a bike shop and I will check them .... at the end of the day these are only bikes
I am sure that I will have to learn bike maintenance well to a good level on my own if I want to make a long journey,
this is what I had already decided in fact in recent months I have learned the basics of the gearbox, brakes, spokes, chain and more,

but I hope I won't have electrical problems because I don't think that here in Italy, in Rome, we are experts in these supermotors.
I believe this forum is a fundamental exchange not only of information but also a source of DIY troubleshooting.

 

[Daxxie]

but I hope I won't have electrical problems because I don't think that here in Italy, in Rome, we are experts in these supermotors.

Join the “Bafang Club Italia” group on facebook. There are some Italians with Ultra bikes.
There is also a “Bafang G510” FB group.

 

[FlyingFinn]

I have a question:

Lately my Ultra motor's sound has loudened and taken in a higher pitch. There's no other issue than the increased sound. Most likely the motor just needs greasing.

Where have you found a deep enough 16 notch socket to open the lockring? Remember that the crank is going inside the socket and since my bike is equipped with fatbike spindle there won't be room to use a 16 notch wrench.

 

[JLam]

Where have you found a deep enough 16 notch socket to open the lockring? Remember that the crank is going inside the socket and since my bike is equipped with fatbike spindle there won't be room to use a 16 notch wrench.

I bought one of these and works perfectly on my AM1000.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Bottom-Bracket-Tool-YC-29BB-Repair-Wrench-Spanner-For-Shimano-Hollowtech-/233615883845

 

[FlyingFinn]

I bought one of these and works perfectly on my AM1000.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bicycle-Bottom-Bracket-Tool-YC-29BB-Repair-Wrench-Spanner-For-Shimano-Hollowtech-/233615883845

Thanks JLam! Bought it right away!

 

[FlyingFinn]

Hi!

Do you know if there’s some kind of overheat protection on stock Ultra? I ran my Ultra outside cover temps at 75 C. This probably means the inside temps hovered around 150-200 C ? I felt a clear loss of power towards the end of my ride. The motor still works.

It’s really weird that the motor heats up this bad. I wasn’t climbing rather rode 30 min with SPORT 5 non-stop.

 

[2Slow]

Hi!

Do you know if there’s some kind of overheat protection on stock Ultra? I ran my Ultra outside cover temps at 75 C. This probably means the inside temps hovered around 150-200 C ? I felt a clear loss of power towards the end of my ride. The motor still works.

It’s really weird that the motor heats up this bad. I wasn’t climbing rather rode 30 min with SPORT 5 non-stop.

Is it stock? What is the battery voltage? Show us some pics of the bike, motor, setup.
There is temp sensor, overheat protection on Bafang Ultra.
Motor internal limits are depend on components. Magnets loose power after 70c, motor winding usually rated at 130 or 150c, capacitors rated at 105c but should be kept under 80c. Silicon is most sensitive, ICs are 70c or 85c for industrial grade. Most heat would be generated at motor winding and rotor.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Is it stock? What is the battery voltage? Show us some pics of the bike, motor, setup.
There is temp sensor, overheat protection on G510.
Motor internal limits are depend on components. Magnets loose power after 70c, motor winding usually rated at 130or150c, capacitors rated at 105c but should be kept under 80c. Silicon is most sensitive, ICs are 70c or 85c for industrial grade. Most heat would be generated at motor winding and rotor.

Thanks for your quick answer.

Yes it's stock. 48v.

The side covers at the place of the windings (BAFANG text) were at 75 C. It means the magnet and windings have been around 150-200 C. The motor still works...

People have reported about a bad smell when the windings have started to melt. I haven’t notified any smell but it can be due to the fact of the motor being so well encapsulated.

I will provide pictures ASAP when I get the tool to open up the motor.

 

[Hardcore]

Hi,

I had an earlier version without a heat sensor and burned a winding. I can tell you, you'll notice that it's burned. This was after heavy abuse of pushing up a friend on a 20% incline in mode 5 for 20 min. Yes, the smell is there, even after you store the bike in your garage and smell the next day. How is the power if you have a new battery installed? I rode for about 2 km with a burned motor at 10kmh (max). Also, can you easily rotate the motor?

As a comparison, to what didn't make it burn: I've done 2h rides in summer going through 2 battieres on full power and with those infrared T sensor I checked and I could get the motor nearly to 100C on the cover and the bike still operated perfectly. How do you know the internals are 150C to 200C, did you read this on the screen? And what date is your motor from?

Cheers

 

[HerrDoktor]

I'm about to drop the hammer on a FREY EX Elite version internal 672WH battery

After trawling through this thread I've put together a summary list of additional parts recommended by users.

Fork upgrade to Lyrik
Additional Charger
Additional rear derailleur hanger
Integrated lights Front & rear
Additional Internal battery
Shift Sensor
Front & rear Fenders
Dropper Seat Post
Programming Cable
Additional wheel set for front/rear w/ cassette, brake discs & Super Moto-X tires
42T Chain ring is not available. They do have a 44T. Is that worthwhile?

Mention was made in one thread of a possible upgrade to the SRAM EX1 shifter/cassette/derailleur from the Shimano XT M8000 11 speed gears but Frey tell me these are not available

Am I missing anything obvious? Thank you for your time

 

[Hardcore]

Depending on your riding style, a 44t front is very nice for a bit faster cycling and not using the 11t rear cog all the time.

You can also ask for a rear suspension bearing kit, I think.

After having both an EX1 and XT M8000 cassette am1000 bikes, I must say, I do not think the extra costs outweigh the benefits. Replacing a cassette is damn expensive, so are derailleurs. Yes, I've gone through three due to hitting rocks and stuff (my bad). Best value for money is the XT M8000.

Rear suspension, i think they also have a few types. The deluxe 65 mm is what i've chosen for my bikes. On the EX bike, I think it's standard.

 

[FlyingFinn]

Hi,

I had an earlier version without a heat sensor and burned a winding. I can tell you, you'll notice that it's burned. This was after heavy abuse of pushing up a friend on a 20% incline in mode 5 for 20 min. Yes, the smell is there, even after you store the bike in your garage and smell the next day. How is the power if you have a new battery installed? I rode for about 2 km with a burned motor at 10kmh (max). Also, can you easily rotate the motor?

As a comparison, to what didn't make it burn: I've done 2h rides in summer going through 2 battieres on full power and with those infrared T sensor I checked and I could get the motor nearly to 100C on the cover and the bike still operated perfectly. How do you know the internals are 150C to 200C, did you read this on the screen? And what date is your motor from?

Cheers

Hi!

Thanks for your quick answer. The motor is from 2019 so most likely it has thermal sensors.

There was no smell at any point. The motor turns as normal and I can still reach normal speeds with no extra effort.

Usually if the outside cover is in a given temperature the insides are much hotter. That was my reasoning. No accurate info on real temps.

I reckon the motor is ok then. Thx for the clarification!

 

[HerrDoktor]

Depending on your riding style, a 44t front is very nice for a bit faster cycling and not using the 11t rear cog all the time.

You can also ask for a rear suspension bearing kit, I think.

After having both an EX1 and XT M8000 cassette am1000 bikes, I must say, I do not think the extra costs outweigh the benefits. Replacing a cassette is damn expensive, so are derailleurs. Yes, I've gone through three due to hitting rocks and stuff (my bad). Best value for money is the XT M8000.

Rear suspension, i think they also have a few types. The deluxe 65 mm is what i've chosen for my bikes. On the EX bike, I think it's standard.

@hardcore, thank you for the reply. I've asked Cecilia Li at Frey about the rear suspension bearing kit. That seems like a great idea. You are correct about the rear suspension, it comes equipped with "ROCKSHOX DELUXE RL 205*65MM"

I'm a little stuck on bike size too if I'm honest. I'm 5' 10" with a 34" inside leg. I'm torn undecided between M or L. Any advice?
Thanks

 

[FlyingFinn]

Depending on your riding style, a 44t front is very nice for a bit faster cycling and not using the 11t rear cog all the time.

You can also ask for a rear suspension bearing kit, I think.

After having both an EX1 and XT M8000 cassette am1000 bikes, I must say, I do not think the extra costs outweigh the benefits. Replacing a cassette is damn expensive, so are derailleurs. Yes, I've gone through three due to hitting rocks and stuff (my bad). Best value for money is the XT M8000.

Rear suspension, i think they also have a few types. The deluxe 65 mm is what i've chosen for my bikes. On the EX bike, I think it's standard.

@hardcore, thank you for the reply. I've asked Cecilia Li at Frey about the rear suspension bearing kit. That seems like a great idea. You are correct about the rear suspension, it comes equipped with "ROCKSHOX DELUXE RL 205*65MM"

I'm a little stuck on bike size too if I'm honest. I'm 5' 10" with a 34" inside leg. I'm torn undecided between M or L. Any advice?
Thanks

Frey bikes are bigger than others. On the other hand huge torque fits better a bigger frame. I would take size smaller if planning to do tricks, jumping or technical trail riding. If the plan is just to coast on asphalts or wide trails take a size bigger.

 

[HerrDoktor]

Frey bikes are bigger than others. On the other hand huge torque fits better a bigger frame. I would take size smaller if planning to do tricks, jumping or technical trail riding. If the plan is just to coast on asphalts or wide trails take a size bigger.

I know they're heavy but I hadn't realised they were necessarily "bigger"

 

[jeron]

Hi guys,

I bought a kmc e11 chain (122 links) but the chain on the bike is 126 links? Frey am1000 L.

Every 126 link chain from KMC is for 12 speed.

What do i need to do?

 

[FlyingFinn]

Hi guys,

I bought a kmc e11 chain (122 links) but the chain on the bike is 126 links? Frey am1000 L.

Every 126 link chain from KMC is for 12 speed.

What do i need to do?

Buy a Shimano chain. They’re cheaper anyway.

 

[Hardcore]

Depending on your riding style, a 44t front is very nice for a bit faster cycling and not using the 11t rear cog all the time.

You can also ask for a rear suspension bearing kit, I think.

After having both an EX1 and XT M8000 cassette am1000 bikes, I must say, I do not think the extra costs outweigh the benefits. Replacing a cassette is damn expensive, so are derailleurs. Yes, I've gone through three due to hitting rocks and stuff (my bad). Best value for money is the XT M8000.

Rear suspension, i think they also have a few types. The deluxe 65 mm is what i've chosen for my bikes. On the EX bike, I think it's standard.

@hardcore, thank you for the reply. I've asked Cecilia Li at Frey about the rear suspension bearing kit. That seems like a great idea. You are correct about the rear suspension, it comes equipped with "ROCKSHOX DELUXE RL 205*65MM"

I'm a little stuck on bike size too if I'm honest. I'm 5' 10" with a 34" inside leg. I'm torn undecided between M or L. Any advice?
Thanks

Hi, you're about my size (1.77m, 86cm inside leg) and i started off with an M size, but I switched to an L frame on my second AM1000. This size I could adapt to my own fit using the stemspacers and saddle position. On the M, i had it maxed to making it bigger. You can compare the sizing charts to see if an EX sizing is about the same as AM1000, but when i tested the EX I had an M model and this worked just fine for jumps and technical trail. On regular day riding covering lots of distance I would recommend the L. In the end, your size would fits both M and L.

 

[HerrDoktor]

Hi, you're about my size (1.77m, 86cm inside leg) and i started off with an M size, but I switched to an L frame on my second AM1000. This size I could adapt to my own fit using the stemspacers and saddle position. On the M, i had it maxed to making it bigger. You can compare the sizing charts to see if an EX sizing is about the same as AM1000, but when i tested the EX I had an M model and this worked just fine for jumps and technical trail. On regular day riding covering lots of distance I would recommend the L. In the end, your size would fits both M and L.

Hi Hardcore, thanks for that. I've ordered M assuming I can use a longer seat post or stem if needed.

I must say however, the whole bike ordering process is irksome at best!

 

[barbarossa]

anyways hard to say. I am 1.85m and have both, Frey AM1000 and Frey EX - both in L. Frey EX seems to be a little smaller or lets say "more handy".

your list is good, only a comment concerning 2 components for Frey EX:

Additional Charger
-> anyways, the default charger is 3A. you can use any AliExpress charger with DC plug - I take the C300 (also delivered with Frey AM1000) for charging the Frey EX - with 4A (originally it was set at 5A).

original rim set twice
Additional wheel set for front/rear w/ cassette, brake discs & Super Moto-X tires
-> Instead I would build a new set with Onyx Hub or go for the DTSwiss 1700(or 1900) - with SRAM cassette and Magura MDR-Ps.

44t is the biggest possible chain ring for Frey EX caused by the massive rear suspension, gear ratio with 40t was way too short for me:


some more nice thirdparty parts for the Frey EX:
I can recommend the 160mm e-thirteen crank arms (here with 44t chain ring):


and as front light the Supernova M99 Mini 25 pure - that works with the weak light power output of Bafang Ultra - (and Ergon GA-2 grips):


and last but not least:
First thing I did was to replace the shift cable and hose by Shimano SP41 and Jagwire polished cable - shifting experience difference is massive.