My Bafang Ultra Mountain Bike! Frey AM1000

[HerrDoktor]

That is crazy heavy. My guess was that weight with both batteries and an extra large.

Bummer.

Tom

If that was "with" batteries it would still be heavy but, alas, that's without them!!

 

[scrambler]

So, my EX has arrived. First impressions?
WOW IT'S HEAVY

I opted for size medium, the dropper post, front/ rear mudguards, front/ rear lights. RockShock Lyrik upgrade and the rack. This monster [without the battery] tops the scale at a monster 34.74KG or 76.b Lbs. There's no way my Mrs will be lugging this thing onto the cycle carrier.

This is confusing. Someone on another forum (below) gave the following about his EX L size

Bike with no batteries =29,25kg
With luggage scale, i can't assure maximum precision.
Main battery= 3,56kg.
2nd battery= 3,31kg.

Bike dual pro L size=+- 36,12kg

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/anyone-have-a-frey-ex.34177/page-3#post-337381

 

[HerrDoktor]

I'm happy to take a photograph of the bike on the scales if you like?
It's a Tanita BC-1000. Not very new but still reliable as far as weighing things. The other guy used a luggage scales

 

[HerrDoktor]

My bateries are still showing on the UPS tracker as:
Label Created 19/09/2020 12:28 Hungary
Order Processed: Ready for UPS

Despite asking Cecilia for further information on 3 seperate instances, she's failed to provide an answer. In fact, she appears to be ignoring the question whilst answering others!

 

[stevieman]

Mine sat in Hungary for 3 weeks, then details were updated and it was delivered within 2 days.

 

[HerrDoktor]

Mine sat in Hungary for 3 weeks, then details were updated and it was delivered within 2 days.

I'm not quite at the 3 week threshold of which you speak. That happens this Friday so it's fingers crossed I guess

 

[lemonsqualsh]

My Ex cut out completely today. Display is dead, won't power up. [emoji32]

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

 

[barbarossa]

My Ex cut out completely today. Display is dead, won't power up. [emoji32]

Sent from my Pixel 3 using Tapatalk

do you have a little more information/setup ?

 

[barbarossa]

anyways. inspired by a facebook post I have a little story about Frey Ex and the battery diodes.

back in April 2020 when I bought my (now stolen) Frey EX I made a few tests and the very first thing I did: I removed the 2x diodes for the possible 2x batteries.

let me explain:
if e.g. you pull the throttle and let it go the motor will still spin for a short time period (kinetic energy has to go somewhere). so there is some regen or recuperation energy for a short time period. normally this little energy is eaten by your main caps and your battery. Frey EX uses 2x diodes, one for each battery, so this energy can't go back to the battery. so what happens: you will have voltage spikes up to 70v using one 48v battery. (this is also the reason why you should not use a 110v/220v AC to DC power supply to power up a DC brushless motor...)
the diodes that sit under the internal battery integrated in battery connector:


you can't see that voltage spikes at your display because newer motors have an additional cap on the logical unit, here the comparison, new/old:




but how do I know about those voltage spikes ?
I made my tests with an old logical controller unit without this cap and immediately just after pedalling hard I could see this high voltages for a second and Bafang DPC-18 display went into "overvoltage protection mode". I made this many times - again and again - it was really funny in some way. back in mind that I won't use the original controller or Bafang DPC18 anymore with the Innotrace controller so something I wasn't afraid that it might be damaged.

what does this mean for Frey Ex owners ?
my opinion : I highly recommend not to use these diodes - not with one and not with two batteries it makes no difference - this will not last forever because main caps are also only 63v rated. simply solder the wires together and you also get 1 volt more that is normally eaten by the diode. having 2 batteries = leave them connected permanently. If you wanna keep your diodes do not use smaller displays with weaker/smaller DC/DC converters (like Eggrider or SW102) - they will potentially blow. DPC-18 display is ok with its DC/DC converter up to 90v I think.
little additional advice:
If you wanna upgrade to an Innotrace controller tell Innotrace that you have a Frey EX.

again and written often before : this is not Freys fault. Frey tried to use 2 batteries and one method is to use diodes and there is no real easy way to build a "perfect diode" - like many things in life : most things are not as easy as they first seem. I personally think about to use 2 mosfets... meanwhile (when I have my new ordered Frey EX devlivered) I will solder XT60 connectors to each battery wire and use a 2x to 1x XT60 adapter using 2 batteries ( or of course you can simply solder it together...).

 

[Tom]

I am not sure I understand but why does it matter for innotrace controller? Does it not have a cap?

Also, my CC display with innotrace controller reads ~1v less than measured directly by my voltmeter. Could this be due to a battery diode? Or are they only used with dual battery setup?

 

[barbarossa]

I am not sure I understand but why does it matter for innotrace controller? Does it not have a cap?

Also, my CC display with innotrace controller reads ~1v less than measured directly by my voltmeter. Could this be due to a battery diode? Or are they only used with dual battery setup?

Innotrace controller has of course caps, even 100v caps. logic board has 2 ICs for overvoltage protection - one faster reacting and one slower. so it is well protected - better than the original controller - but only my opinion. but I assume that Innotrace controller is more clever and perhaps recognizes that peaks and reacts, switch off or reduce power - but only an assumption. in addition the Innotrace display is a modified SW102 display. but main reason might be warranty related. would you give warranty to someone on your product under these circumstances ? I would not.

1 volt difference: that's interesting - Bafang displays are not very accurate but 1 volt is much more than I would expect. anyways these diodes are only used in dual battery setup of Frey EX - nowhere else.

 

[Mountgreenwood]

Update to recent shipping and tax problems for a CC sent to Ireland. Ivy made things right after a bit of back and forth. I would have shared if I was left unhappy so it is only right that I report that she fixed the problem.

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

Thanks for the update. It's encouraging to hear that Frey did right by you.

 

[JohnnyEppelseed]

Would anyone who owns a Frey AM1000 5.0 mind posting a picture of the charging port on your 48V battery case?

 

[stevieman]

I can in a couple of hours

 

[2Slow]

anyways. inspired by a facebook post I have a little story about Frey Ex and the battery diodes.

back in April 2020 when I bought my (now stolen) Frey EX I made a few tests and the very first thing I did: I removed the 2x diodes for the possible 2x batteries.

let me explain:
if e.g. you pull the throttle and let it go the motor will still spin for a short time period (kinetic energy has to go somewhere). so there is some regen or recuperation energy for a short time period. normally this little energy is eaten by your main caps and your battery. Frey EX uses 2x diodes, one for each battery, so this energy can't go back to the battery. so what happens: you will have voltage spikes up to 70v using one 48v battery. (this is also the reason why you should not use a 110v/220v AC to DC power supply to power up a DC brushless motor...)
the diodes that sit under the internal battery integrated in battery connector:
Diodes.JPG

you can't see that voltage spikes at your display because newer motors have an additional cap on the logical unit, here the comparison, new/old:
Bafang_new.jpg

Bafang_older.JPG

but how do I know about those voltage spikes ?
I made my tests with an old logical controller unit without this cap and immediately just after pedalling hard I could see this high voltages for a second and Bafang DPC-18 display went into "overvoltage protection mode". I made this many times - again and again - it was really funny in some way. back in mind that I won't use the original controller or Bafang DPC18 anymore with the Innotrace controller so something I wasn't afraid that it might be damaged.

what does this mean for Frey Ex owners ?
my opinion : I highly recommend not to use these diodes - not with one and not with two batteries it makes no difference - this will not last forever because main caps are also only 63v rated. simply solder the wires together and you also get 1 volt more that is normally eaten by the diode. having 2 batteries = leave them connected permanently. If you wanna keep your diodes do not use smaller displays with weaker/smaller DC/DC converters (like Eggrider or SW102) - they will potentially blow. DPC-18 display is ok with its DC/DC converter up to 90v I think.
little additional advice:
If you wanna upgrade to an Innotrace controller tell Innotrace that you have a Frey EX.

again and written often before : this is not Freys fault. Frey tried to use 2 batteries and one method is to use diodes and there is no real easy way to build a "perfect diode" - like many things in life : most things are not as easy as they first seem. I personally think about to use 2 mosfets... meanwhile (when I have my new ordered Frey EX devlivered) I will solder XT60 connectors to each battery wire and use a 2x to 1x XT60 adapter using 2 batteries ( or of course you can simply solder it together...).

Voltage spikes are back EMF generated by motor as it's powered down. CAP are just filters to stock voltage spikes to be backfeed to batteries and controllers.
Those power diodes are for twin battery reverse feed protection. In case one battery half charged and second external battery been installed as fully changed. If no diodes installed, Fully charged battery will start immediate discharge at max allowed by BMS rate to top up discharged battery. This will cause loss of charge due to efficiency and few other issues. Diodes prevent that at voltage loss of 0.7V.
I removed diodes just to get more juice out of batteries for range. Diodes cause loss of energy and battery usefull capacity. But now I got to make sure both batteries are at the same level of charge before pluging both to the bike.
As far as Innotrace controller, I found ultra smooth settings for Bafang Ultra that appear to improve motor behaviour by very large margin. Can anyone try those settings before they upgrade to Innotrace controller and compare?! I am interested in motor performance not max power. :thumb:

 

[barbarossa]

Voltage spikes are back EMF generated by motor as it's powered down. CAP are just filters to stock voltage spikes to be backfeed to batteries and controllers.

normally yes, you are right but not in this case and this is exactly the problem: using the diodes backfeed is only to controller (and display) but not to the batteries. that's the nature of a diode

Those power diodes are for twin battery reverse feed protection. In case one battery half charged and second external battery been installed as fully changed. If no diodes installed, Fully charged battery will start immediate discharge at max allowed by BMS rate to top up discharged battery. This will cause loss of charge due to efficiency and few other issues. Diodes prevent that at voltage loss of 0.7V.

uuupppsss...yep I totally forgot: of course the 2 batteries must have the same voltage when connected initially. but if they are connected they always have same voltage and both BMS are preventing any charge current above 10amps (2x Neptune 15) so if they would have different voltages BMS would kick in. anyways as I wrote it will be only a temporary solution to connect them permanently for me and as you wrote: permanent parallel connected batteries have downsides. but having only one battery -as many of the Frey EX owners have- it is not problem at all .
I hope to get a board with mosfets and some more intelligent balancing method...work is in progress and board is ready - I already got a picture of the board - but not fully tested...and of course I am still wating for my "replacement" Frey EX best case: board is ready when I got my Frey EX :thumb:

 

[2Slow]

How was your bike stolen?
I am thinking of some type of lock-out or GPS tracker. Lock with cable is from honest people that do not carry bolt cutters...

 

[barbarossa]

How was your bike stolen?
I am thinking of some type of lock-out or GPS tracker. Lock with cable is from honest people that do not carry bolt cutters...

It was stolen directly from my cellar. what a shame. I had a GPS but disconnected because I wanted to do something with the motor (GPS sits in plastic motor cover) and exactly this day I also did not use my kryptonite lock ....ggggggrrrrrrr... 2 security things and I "removed" them both for one day - murphy's law !!!!

 

[Tom]

This GPS Tracker is working great in my Frey CC secured in the downtube near the internal routing holes and hardwired to internal battery. I tapped into the charging port which has a fuse. Frey might consider offering it as a pre-installed option (although users would need to remove it to install their own SIM). I have it working with FreedomPop SIM with free monthly data so no ongoing costs.

 

[2Slow]

This GPS Tracker is working great in my Frey CC secured in the downtube near the internal routing holes and hardwired to internal battery. I tapped into the charging port which has a fuse. Frey might consider offering it as a pre-installed option (although users would need to remove it to install their own SIM). I have it working with FreedomPop SIM with free monthly data so no ongoing costs.

Thanks!
Ordered: https://www.eelinktracker.com/4g-lte-fdd-gps-tracker-worldwide-used-tracking-device.html
I think it's newer version of the one you listed. On you Frey CC, GPS work even module with tracker inside Aluminium tube?!
:thumb:

 

[2Slow]

How was your bike stolen?
I am thinking of some type of lock-out or GPS tracker. Lock with cable is from honest people that do not carry bolt cutters...

It was stolen directly from my cellar. what a shame. I had a GPS but disconnected because I wanted to do something with the motor (GPS sits in plastic motor cover) and exactly this day I also did not use my kryptonite lock ....ggggggrrrrrrr... 2 security things and I "removed" them both for one day - murphy's law !!!!

:|

 

[Tom]

Same version (TK419). Any additional suffix just signifies various options none of which are useful for ebike use. I purchased mine on Amazon with express shipping as I wanted it fast. Arrived in less than a week. More details here:

https://electricbikereview.com/forums/threads/anti-theft-gps.826/post-338779

 

[userix]

Does anyone have the frey config tool to program the Bafang motors in the AM1000? The regular bafang config softwares won't connect to the frey Bafang motors.

 

[2Slow]

Does anyone have the frey config tool to program the Bafang motors in the AM1000? The regular bafang config softwares won't connect to the frey Bafang motors.

Bafang Ultra programming suite
Link to Frey copy of programming suite.