My Outback E-board Project

Z

zerogee

1 W
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
62
Location
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada
Hi Guys!
I’m new to this stuff and this forum. What an excellent resource it is!

I have this Outback Mountainboard (OMB) Triple Trax M1 that I have been using mainly for kiteboarding and some downhill riding. Lately, I have been playing with the idea of converting it to an E-board since I find myself not using it much anymore and this might be an interesting project and a cool no-wind activity.
View attachment 14outback_mountainboard_4_1.jpgView attachment 3View attachment 11
It is a directional and the front is actually the end with the two wheels and I ride it with the straps. It uses tie-rod steering (no trucks) operated by tilting the deck when leaning over your toes or heels. The front wheels have toe-in and cant for better tracking and stability.
outback_mountainboard_4_4.jpgView attachment 13100_1389 (800x600).jpg
It has a wide track and long wheel base and it is pretty heavy (10.5kg /23lb). The big 12" wheels and lots of ground clearance (4”) go over bumps and gopher holes nicely.
100_1390 (1024x768).jpg
This combination provides a nice ride at speed with no speed wobble and can hold lots of power with minimal side slipping unless you want it to. It is a very sweet board to carve on (very snowboard like).

I have come across other projects online using this platform with chain drives that require more fabrication but they did not have much follow-up. I’m confused and not sure if I should proceed with this project. I hope you can assist me in deciding whether this project is worth pursuing as is. Since this is my first effort, my parts selection was based on more plug-in-play and minimal modification and fabrication. From info I found online, I have estimates from 15kph to 25kph for top speed and 30km to 60km for distance. I don’t think 15kph will make me happy. I might be able to live with 30km. Can anyone here narrow down what this setup will actually give me for top speed and distance?

12 inch Front Smart Pie Conversion Kit Looks like that it will fit inside the frame with the disk brake. Front Smart Pie Drawing
View attachment 1outback_mountainboard_4_5.jpg100_1393 (800x600).jpg
I’m not sure if I used this data in these properly for some of my estimates…
Smart Pie 48V Curve
Smart Pie 48V Performance Data

48V10Ah LiFePO4 in Alloy CASE I picked this battery for its dimensions. I would like to mount it under the deck to keep the deck clear and the center of gravity of the board low with the weight more even distributed. The pack needs to fit inside the frame so it does not affect the steering or damage the pack. This is my preferred configuration.
100_1394 (800x600).jpg100_1395 (800x600).jpg100_1399 (1024x768).jpg
Next choice would be to fit a pack between the straps on the deck. It would need to fit inside 10”. I could also move the back strap to get 2” more.
100_1401 (1024x768).jpg
Another choice would be a split pack with one on the deck and one under.

Last choice would be to mount the battery on a rack above the drive (rear) wheel.

I am open to any and all suggestions and change my preference if it will improve the performance of the motor (top speed, or torque, or distance).

USB Programming Cable for Internal Smart Pie Controller for tweaking the motor. Or am I better off using Cycle Analyst to do that?
Cycle Analyst V3 with Shunt V3 I’m not sure I need all the functions of this version or not. I think the software for the motor will let me do the tweaking of the motor.
Cycle Analyst v2.3 with Shunt or, should I just use this version?

140 mm Brake Disk I’m not sure if I need one. Would the regen braking be enough to stop me?
Disk Brake Activator If I need the brake I would need to fab something up to mount this. I am thinking of using a modified BMX stem and either some angle or flat plate material to do it.
BowTi_getto_disc_adapter.jpg


I was also thinking that I could use a proximity type switch as a “dead man” switch in case I fall off the board. Positioned in the deck under my foot and connected to the unused e-brake port.

Rear Torque Arm I might fab something up for this too. Is one on each side needed?

Thanks,
Myron
 
http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=11137

This is a cheap solution if you can make it chain drive. How is kiteboarding on it? I've attached my windsufing sail on it at one time, but lost interest in it after a few good crashes riding through empty parking lots.
 
Hi kfong,

That is one of the ones I have come across before. How has it worked out for you? I have looked at friction drive and chain drive systems but because of the fabrication required to mount the motor I'm afraid it may never get completed. I have also looked at other scooter motors but it is hard to find width dimensions on them and some require similar fabrication as chain drives to mount. Many are too thick too. There is very little fabrication involved in this hubmotor system and it's the most powerful 12" hubmotor I have come across that will fit. I might reconsider the chain drive if anyone here could give me a better idea of the performance of my setup.

It is an awesome kiteboard. A blast to ride on but too heavy for tricks. It would be used more if I had better fields to use it on.
 
Hi sk8norcal,
The Golden hubmotor comes with a 12" cast rim installed just like the Russian one in your link. That is a nice hub motor unfortunately it could be hard to get since it is made in China exclusively for Russia. It looks like it would fit my frame, I will have to explore this one more. I have worn battery packs at work, it kills me every time I do.
 
It was definitly fast around a corner where I had to bail. Never had time to finish the wireless throttle so it pretty much has been sitting. Too many other projects. If you have the patience, and can file and use a hacksaw. It would not take much to replicate what I did. You could get away with using Baltic birch even.

zerogee said:
Hi kfong,

That is one of the ones I have come across before. How has it worked out for you? I have looked at friction drive and chain drive systems but because of the fabrication required to mount the motor I'm afraid it may never get completed. I have also looked at other scooter motors but it is hard to find width dimensions on them and some require similar fabrication as chain drives to mount. Many are too thick too. There is very little fabrication involved in this hubmotor system and it's the most powerful 12" hubmotor I have come across that will fit. I might reconsider the chain drive if anyone here could give me a better idea of the performance of my setup.

It is an awesome kiteboard. A blast to ride on but too heavy for tricks. It would be used more if I had better fields to use it on.
Click to expand...
 
sk8norcal said:
i think the link u posted is wrong, its got spoke holes...

maybe this....
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/Rear-16-Inch-Scooter-Wheel-.html
Click to expand...

It's the correct link but they have a bad set of photos for the wheel. It's the same size hub used from 12" to 700C"
 
kfong said:
It was definitly fast around a corner where I had to bail. Never had time to finish the wireless throttle so it pretty much has been sitting. Too many other projects. If you have the patience, and can file and use a hacksaw. It would not take much to replicate what I did. You could get away with using Baltic birch even.

zerogee said:
Hi kfong,

That is one of the ones I have come across before. How has it worked out for you? I have looked at friction drive and chain drive systems but because of the fabrication required to mount the motor I'm afraid it may never get completed. I have also looked at other scooter motors but it is hard to find width dimensions on them and some require similar fabrication as chain drives to mount. Many are too thick too. There is very little fabrication involved in this hubmotor system and it's the most powerful 12" hubmotor I have come across that will fit. I might reconsider the chain drive if anyone here could give me a better idea of the performance of my setup.

It is an awesome kiteboard. A blast to ride on but too heavy for tricks. It would be used more if I had better fields to use it on.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I don't think I ever exceeded 35kph with the kite and still in control. I think it could handle more speed in a straight line but never had anywhere to prove it. The kite might also assist in adding some control /balance?? With a motor I would like enough power to ride some skatepark like terrain. Not really going for any speed records at the moment. Maybe later??

I can see how simple the fab on your board is. I might pursue something with more fabrication and performance if this setup is not satisfying.
 
Throw in the turnigy RC motor and you defintely will have more than you can handle.

zerogee said:
kfong said:
It was definitly fast around a corner where I had to bail. Never had time to finish the wireless throttle so it pretty much has been sitting. Too many other projects. If you have the patience, and can file and use a hacksaw. It would not take much to replicate what I did. You could get away with using Baltic birch even.

zerogee said:
Hi kfong,

That is one of the ones I have come across before. How has it worked out for you? I have looked at friction drive and chain drive systems but because of the fabrication required to mount the motor I'm afraid it may never get completed. I have also looked at other scooter motors but it is hard to find width dimensions on them and some require similar fabrication as chain drives to mount. Many are too thick too. There is very little fabrication involved in this hubmotor system and it's the most powerful 12" hubmotor I have come across that will fit. I might reconsider the chain drive if anyone here could give me a better idea of the performance of my setup.

It is an awesome kiteboard. A blast to ride on but too heavy for tricks. It would be used more if I had better fields to use it on.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...

I don't think I ever exceeded 35kph with the kite and still in control. I think it could handle more speed in a straight line but never had anywhere to prove it. The kite might also assist in adding some control /balance?? With a motor I would like enough power to ride some skatepark like terrain. Not really going for any speed records at the moment. Maybe later??

I can see how simple the fab on your board is. I might pursue something with more fabrication and performance if this setup is not satisfying.
Click to expand...
 
OK, after a more in-depth search of the forum I came across a few more methods to estimate the top speed. The results are very close to each other making me think that they are good estimates. I am now getting 18-21kph (11-13mph). :( Thinking this will not make me happy especially if I take it onto the grass.

Maybe have to revisit the chain drives again. Perhaps all-wheel drive. :D
 
I came across a FAQ on the Golden site that claims 42-44 kph for the 48V 400W Smart Pie on a 26" wheel. I found another site that used wheel diameter ratios to estimate speeds. So, 12.5"/26"=0.481
43kph*0.481=20.68kph

Then using data from these (assuming that data is for unloaded conditions)... 48V Smart Pie Curve and 48V Smart Pie Performance Data to complete these other calculators I found searching the forum.

Using the max RPM, RPM at max efficiency, and at 7x%-ish (seemed like the max speed was somewhere just below max efficiency on the e-bike.ca sim in many cases) found on those curves on this Speed Calculator
Then multiply the results by 0.80 for loaded conditions. (I found a recommendation for 80% on the forum).

Using the data in this Drivetrain Calculator
Using max rpm from the data sheets 374/48V=7.8KV

Results are very similar compared to the speed range from my previous attempts.

It appears that the Russian started out using the high voltage controller with 98V and then pumped it to 115V. :shock: The internal Smart Pie controller can't handle more than 60V. Hmmm... I wonder if I can bypass the internal controller and use an external one?
 
Golden Motor Smart Pie 4 with the new Vector sinewave controller on its way. So, I can finally get started on this thing. :D
http://www.goldenmotor.ca/products/Smart-Pie-4-%28VECTOR%29-12-Inch-Front-Conversion-Kit.html
 
Great! Lets see some vid or pic! Really interested in this project, I like the idea of bike parts. If only outback boards would be easier to get :(
 
I picked up my board for kiting way back in 2003 from a liquidator on ebay.

Minimal fabrication was needed for the conversion. I made some blocks from 1x1 angle to clamp the wheel in. These also act as spacers. For the battery rack I used double and single slot shelving chanels. Its attached to the frame with ubolts. Very solid. The control handle are 2 PVC 45deg 1/2" electrical conduit. I used bicycle brake cable connected to the brake handle and clamped with hose clamps to the frame for strain relief for the wire harness.
20141011_175940_resized_1.jpgView attachment 220141011_175958_resized_1.jpg20141011_180021_resized_1.jpg
 
Looks nice and judging by the dirt on it works well on rougher terrain ;) Why did you abandon the idea of the battery under the deck? The stealth effect would be really nice but I guess there could be space or dirt issues.
 
Unfortunately, the pack didn't quite fit inside the frame under the deck. Or on the deck between the straps. It was quick and cheap to mount the battery over the wheel to see if it even worked. It does. I thought it couldn't hurt to have the extra weight over the wheel for improved traction. However, it might be the opposite result and loosened up the wheel when turning due to it being top heavy. Or, It could be that my first fides were on a gravel road too. :D

I will likely split the pack and mount as much of it in the frame as I can. The rest will go on the deck between the feet.

Thinking of removing the straps too.
 
Too bad it didnt fit. I personally would keep the straps cause I feel way more comfortable with them on my MTB. A shame to open up that nice battery enclosure. Creating a nice enclosure and on/off switch is actually quite some work on the RC powered projects.
 
The Golden Motor Smart-Pie 4 with Vector sinewave controller is very quiet and smooth.

Today, I tested the ramped acceleration setting. The instant acceleration setting wanted to throw me off. I also increased the braking power slightly. I wanted to see what the top speed would be at the current RPM (360) setting and the range at full charge. I needed to practice turning too. :D

Pretty happy with it. The ramped acceleration was much safer (10 seconds to top speed). Improved braking. Top speed was 23kph (25kph on some of the downhills). The Green light(Full) started flickering at 32km, I was averaging 22kph to that point. I hit the Yellow(Half) at 37km and average speed dropped to about 20kph. Total range could approach 50km on a full charge. It had no problem climbing an impressive grade at a steady 20kph. Climbing speed dropped to about 14kph on the Yellow light. Very fun snowboarding like carving. It is a bit loose on the gravel.

Next, see how it handles grass and burm surfing. :D
 
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