greenspark
100 W
- Joined
- Oct 23, 2011
- Messages
- 176
In December 11, I installed a Cute100F kit and a BMS 36v 8.8a/h bottle battery. The motor seemed a bit noisy going up hills, but I had nothing to compare it to.
On 15 January, it stopped. Heading out my driveway, power, then quit. Nothing. Freshly charged battery.
Steven Deng suggested I should change the controller (I had purchased an extra EC009 and EC012 since they are cheap, and shipping is expensive.)
Replaced the kit controller with a EC009 Controller that looked identical.
While doing this, I found that the positive (+) connector between the battery and the controller was melted. High heat spot.
When I ran a test, the motor gave off a very loud noise for a few seconds and then it would quit, as if there was a safety cut out. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMe579T208&feature=channel. The new EC012 did the same thing.
So I ordered a MXUS Kit from Paul. It arrived a few days ago.
I installed it with the same 36v battery. The lights would light up on the thumb throttle, but no motor sound or movement. Disconnected everything except motor, Hall sensors, power and thumb. No change.
Paul suggested I should run a few tests. I have his 48V battery with a MAC Torque 500 kit on the other bike.
I disconnected the 36v battery and hooked up the 48V and tried both controllers
48V battery using the MAC controller to drive the MXUS motor - works fine
48V battery using the MXUS controller to drive the MXUS motor - lights up, but the motor does not turn or make noise.
48V battery using the MAC controller Deng's Cute 100 motor - works fine and sounds quieter. This was a pleasant surprise, so I tried:
48V battery using the CUTE kit controller on the Cute 100 motor - worked fine as well which suggested that it quit because of the melted connector. Previously when I fixed the connector, I only tested the Cute 100 with the EC009, not the original controller.
At this point one would conclude the problem is the MXUS controller. However, the plot thickens.
While I was running these various tests, the safety switch on the bottom of the 36v bottle battery stopped working, as if it had welded itself in the on position. I fabricated a new safety switch on the + wire.
When I finished the tests, I had one working 36v 17amp maximum controller that came with the Cute100 kit, and two working motors, the Cute100 and the MXUS, both 36V 17 amp max motors.
So I took the Cute Kit controller and installed it with the MXUS motor still on the bike. I hooked up the 36v bottle battery and I turned on the switch, expecting it to work like the 48V test, but nothing happened. But here is where it gets strange.
If I disconnect power to the controller, the battery tests as 41V
But if I reconnect the controller, and throw the safety switch, the battery tests at 1Volt. If I press the thumb throttle the motor does not move or make any noise. I don't hear any sizzling sounds or see or smell smoke.
So I left everything else just as before, and just swapped out the 36V bottle battery for the 48V. On 48v the motor runs fine, just as in the original tests.
I then put the 36V back on, but left the negative wire off while I checked voltage. The voltage read 41V, just as it always has.
I then moved the negative wire in to connect to the battery, to see if the voltage would drop.
Instead, it sparked like an arc welder, blackening the wire. Note that I was not touching the throttle, just hooking up power. Yes, batteries spark when being hooked up, but this is different, this was a lot more electricity jumping.
At that point, I unplugged everything, quit, came inside and wrote this query.
My understanding of batteries is not great, but I had presumed that if it is showing voltage, it's working.
Why would the 48V battery show power readings when it is hooked up to the controller and work, but when I replace it with the 36V the voltage drops to 1 volt as soon as it is connected to the controller and the safety switch turned? The kit controller is set up for 36v, but it only works with the 48v battery.
My findings:
1) Both motors are fine
2) The MXUS controller may have a problem since it does not work with anything. However, Paul tested it with the kit before it was sent out and it did work at that time.
3) The EC009 and EC012 controllers may have some sort of Hall sensor conflict. Two people have suggested this. No idea how to sort that one. This could be a clue or a red herring.
4) Is the melted positive discovered in January on the original kit connector between the battery and controller a clue, or a red herring?
5) Is the failure today in "on" position of the safety switch on the bottom of the 36v bottle battery a clue or irrelevant?
6) Conclusion: Something between the Cute100 kit controller and the BMS bottle battery is wrong... and that is the mystery.
Is it possible for a battery to have full power yet produce this seemingly shorted-out behaviour when connected to the controller, even when the same controller does fine with the 48V battery? What sort of tests can be run on a battery?
Anyone have any thoughts?
BTW, to be clear, I bought the Cute100 from Steven Deng and the the Bottle battery from BMS because Paul was on holiday, and I wanted to see how these two other Chinese vendors performed (not so good). In the future, I will only buy from Paul, who sold me my first kit, the MAC 500R Torque which works fine. I may have to buy another battery, this time from Paul, so that I have a full kit from him... and then if that battery drives the Deng kit, I'll need to get a third battery!
On 15 January, it stopped. Heading out my driveway, power, then quit. Nothing. Freshly charged battery.
Steven Deng suggested I should change the controller (I had purchased an extra EC009 and EC012 since they are cheap, and shipping is expensive.)
Replaced the kit controller with a EC009 Controller that looked identical.
While doing this, I found that the positive (+) connector between the battery and the controller was melted. High heat spot.
When I ran a test, the motor gave off a very loud noise for a few seconds and then it would quit, as if there was a safety cut out. See http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hfMe579T208&feature=channel. The new EC012 did the same thing.
So I ordered a MXUS Kit from Paul. It arrived a few days ago.
I installed it with the same 36v battery. The lights would light up on the thumb throttle, but no motor sound or movement. Disconnected everything except motor, Hall sensors, power and thumb. No change.
Paul suggested I should run a few tests. I have his 48V battery with a MAC Torque 500 kit on the other bike.
I disconnected the 36v battery and hooked up the 48V and tried both controllers
48V battery using the MAC controller to drive the MXUS motor - works fine
48V battery using the MXUS controller to drive the MXUS motor - lights up, but the motor does not turn or make noise.
48V battery using the MAC controller Deng's Cute 100 motor - works fine and sounds quieter. This was a pleasant surprise, so I tried:
48V battery using the CUTE kit controller on the Cute 100 motor - worked fine as well which suggested that it quit because of the melted connector. Previously when I fixed the connector, I only tested the Cute 100 with the EC009, not the original controller.
At this point one would conclude the problem is the MXUS controller. However, the plot thickens.
While I was running these various tests, the safety switch on the bottom of the 36v bottle battery stopped working, as if it had welded itself in the on position. I fabricated a new safety switch on the + wire.
When I finished the tests, I had one working 36v 17amp maximum controller that came with the Cute100 kit, and two working motors, the Cute100 and the MXUS, both 36V 17 amp max motors.
So I took the Cute Kit controller and installed it with the MXUS motor still on the bike. I hooked up the 36v bottle battery and I turned on the switch, expecting it to work like the 48V test, but nothing happened. But here is where it gets strange.
If I disconnect power to the controller, the battery tests as 41V
But if I reconnect the controller, and throw the safety switch, the battery tests at 1Volt. If I press the thumb throttle the motor does not move or make any noise. I don't hear any sizzling sounds or see or smell smoke.
So I left everything else just as before, and just swapped out the 36V bottle battery for the 48V. On 48v the motor runs fine, just as in the original tests.
I then put the 36V back on, but left the negative wire off while I checked voltage. The voltage read 41V, just as it always has.
I then moved the negative wire in to connect to the battery, to see if the voltage would drop.
Instead, it sparked like an arc welder, blackening the wire. Note that I was not touching the throttle, just hooking up power. Yes, batteries spark when being hooked up, but this is different, this was a lot more electricity jumping.
At that point, I unplugged everything, quit, came inside and wrote this query.
My understanding of batteries is not great, but I had presumed that if it is showing voltage, it's working.
Why would the 48V battery show power readings when it is hooked up to the controller and work, but when I replace it with the 36V the voltage drops to 1 volt as soon as it is connected to the controller and the safety switch turned? The kit controller is set up for 36v, but it only works with the 48v battery.
My findings:
1) Both motors are fine
2) The MXUS controller may have a problem since it does not work with anything. However, Paul tested it with the kit before it was sent out and it did work at that time.
3) The EC009 and EC012 controllers may have some sort of Hall sensor conflict. Two people have suggested this. No idea how to sort that one. This could be a clue or a red herring.
4) Is the melted positive discovered in January on the original kit connector between the battery and controller a clue, or a red herring?
5) Is the failure today in "on" position of the safety switch on the bottom of the 36v bottle battery a clue or irrelevant?
6) Conclusion: Something between the Cute100 kit controller and the BMS bottle battery is wrong... and that is the mystery.
Is it possible for a battery to have full power yet produce this seemingly shorted-out behaviour when connected to the controller, even when the same controller does fine with the 48V battery? What sort of tests can be run on a battery?
Anyone have any thoughts?
BTW, to be clear, I bought the Cute100 from Steven Deng and the the Bottle battery from BMS because Paul was on holiday, and I wanted to see how these two other Chinese vendors performed (not so good). In the future, I will only buy from Paul, who sold me my first kit, the MAC 500R Torque which works fine. I may have to buy another battery, this time from Paul, so that I have a full kit from him... and then if that battery drives the Deng kit, I'll need to get a third battery!
