Nano-tech LiPoly finally releases at HobbyCity! 45-90C!

Well if you're discharging at 90c, thats only enough for 2-3 quarter mile runs. You could fill a little trailer with 10kw of large (cheap) format prismatic LiFePo4 and pull it to the track, disconnect for your runs with a totally ridiculous 75 pounds of batteries on board, and then still have the juice to drive home.

I've got a track about 8 miles from me...so that setup would be perfect.

These numbers are getting me all excited. Batteries don't need to be the bottleneck anymore, which is crazy because batteries have always been the limiting factor for EVs.

I'm driving to NJ to pick up an electric truck. Its got 1600 pounds of batteries on board. All to get 40 miles of range. I'm going to be replacing them with 160 pounds of lithium. Lead is so dead it's not even funny. At least they still can be used for solar (but even there grid-tie makes more sense then lead, unless you need grid independent backup)
 
Luke,

I think the way to get the ICE crowd bought into the concept is to first make some light and small electric boosters as a nice performance kit to add to the cars. There aren't rules to prevent that kind of performance kit are there? It seems ideal for the drag guys, and it's a perfect application for electrics with batteries now with this kind of power density, since range isn't an issue.
 
John in CR said:
Luke,

I think the way to get the ICE crowd bought into the concept is to first make some light and small electric boosters as a nice performance kit to add to the cars. There aren't rules to prevent that kind of performance kit are there? It seems ideal for the drag guys, and it's a perfect application for electrics with batteries now with this kind of power density, since range isn't an issue.
Click to expand...

Hmmm...there have GOT to be rules against electric boosters. No? Because how hard would it be to slap a belt-driven 8" and 50 lbs of lipo to ANY setup and shave SECONDs off your quarter mile. Or you could always stick a transwarp motor inbetween your transmission and differential.

You might be on to something.

PS....I've always wanted to cut a hole in the hood with a big belt driven motor sticking out like a supercharger. electrocharger?
 
The street racers is probably the bigger market anyway. The biggest issue would be how to hide it and get the power to the wheels.
 
Hold on a second. Hobby King just listed more nano-tech batteries. 6000 mAH -6S pack for $104.59.

I wonder if these packs can be configured to replace car batteries, especially the 6000mAH-3S in 10 parallel configuration. 60 AH with 1500 A constant and 3000 A burst. Weight is 481 g each, so that's roughly 4.81 Kg or 11 lbs rounding up.

11 lbs of battery pack for 1500 A CCA. Sounds like a monster, never seen lead acid car battery with that kind of rating.

Off topic. Does a V12 engine starter need 1500 A?
 
AmpEater said:
Well if you're discharging at 90c, thats only enough for 2-3 quarter mile runs. You could fill a little trailer with 10kw of large (cheap) format prismatic LiFePo4 and pull it to the track, disconnect for your runs with a totally ridiculous 75 pounds of batteries on board, and then still have the juice to drive home.

I've got a track about 8 miles from me...so that setup would be perfect.
Click to expand...

Ehh, you always get at least 30mins between passes. With just a 3 of the 3010B chargers running off the tow vehicle's alternator you would be able to keep the pack always topped off at the track. If you don't all ready have a giant alternator fitted, the 84-92 corvettes had 180amp alternator options, and if you're pulling with a Yota, the whole SC lexus series had 160's, and for Honda, the RL's had 200amp alternators (what I run on super-civic to power the 2x800w nitrous bottle heaters).

Counting the burn-out power use estimate, let's say you've got 12 seconds of energy demand at 500hp to make each pass.
That would be 1.23kw-hrs. With 30mins of charging with the 3 3010b chargers, you will be able to dump 1.5kw-hrs back into the pack.

Also, with a total battery weight of 72lbs, shoot, split that into maybe three 24lbs modular packs, and have a 3010b with a 48v 30amp server power supply, then you just need to find 3 outlets at the track on different circuit breakers.

Or, for you with your FIVE 3010b's (yes, I'm a little jealous), get a little 6-8kw genset mounted on the trailer with the 3010b's all pre-wired up on a neat little charging harness with connectors that just plug into the side of the car somewhere convenient, and then you're totally self sufficient, and should be able to return all the energy used in a pass back into the pack in 14-15mins of charging. Never in my life has my class been called back to the stageing lines before 15mins, so I think it would work out just fine. :)


AmpEater said:
These numbers are getting me all excited. Batteries don't need to be the bottleneck anymore, which is crazy because batteries have always been the limiting factor for EVs.
Click to expand...

I know!!!! Damn!!! This is really really exciting!!! Think of those cars that got the huge sponsorships for batteries, like the guy with $100k of the Lithium Titanate batteries, or the couple of A123 sponsored drag vehicles. They all have multi-hundred pound bulky battery packs that cripple the potential performance the machines could have, and they were always totally cost-prohibitive for an everyday-Joe to afford with out landing a sponsorship.

With these packs, we've got the ability to CRUSH those sponsored teams! And do it on the budget of a normal grass-roots racing effort! :) :) :) :)

HobbyCity! You ROCK!!!!
 
Luke,

If done as a hybrid, so your car is totally self contained with the big alternator using the ICE to keep the battery charged, where and how would you tie in the 500hp electric boost to the drive train, assuming it's a string of something like the monster RC type motors coming out?
 
John in CR said:
Luke,

If done as a hybrid, so your car is totally self contained with the big alternator using the ICE to keep the battery charged, where and how would you tie in the 500hp electric boost to the drive train, assuming it's a string of something like the monster RC type motors coming out?
Click to expand...


I've been thinking about that all night John. :)

I had a vision of takeing each of my rear wheels, and glueing maybe 4"x1"x0.25" neo magnets all the way around the inside of it, and makeing a stator coil setup that covers maybe 1/4-1/3rd of the rotor, and bolts as a replacement for the rear brake calipers (plenty strong rigid mounting point). I'm not bothered by racing with no rear brakes, because the car almost does stoppies under hard braking anyways, but if the controllers had some regen power, it could help. :) If the rear-wheels could be transformed into hubmotors that could do 200hp each for maybe 8seconds at a time before they melt, that would 100% positively put my civic into the low 8-second times... and improve street launches... It could be an even more serious weapon for taking money on the street from ANYTHING. If a turbo hyabusa wants to race? Sure buddy, let's put $500 on it to make it fun. ;) Ferrari Enzo wants to race? Hey, I'll give you 10 car lengths heat-start. :)


It would require a hell of a good shielding setup to keep magnetic road debris from building up on the magnets when you're rolling on the street though... I think it's a workable problem though.
 
liveforphysics said:
I know!!!! Damn!!! This is really really exciting!!! Think of those cars that got the huge sponsorships for batteries, like the guy with $100k of the Lithium Titanate batteries, or the couple of A123 sponsored drag vehicles. They all have multi-hundred pound bulky battery packs that cripple the potential performance the machines could have, and they were always totally cost-prohibitive for an everyday-Joe to afford with out landing a sponsorship.

With these packs, we've got the ability to CRUSH those sponsored teams! And do it on the budget of a normal grass-roots racing effort! :) :) :) :)
Click to expand...

Turns out the killacycle pack weighs 175 pounds.

Now I could do the same for 85 pounds, and 5 grand.

Curb weight of the whole thing is 600 pounds, so that's a big deal.


Here is my idea....A race. First person to set a world record on hobbyking batteries wins!
 
liveforphysics said:
John in CR said:
Luke,

If done as a hybrid, so your car is totally self contained with the big alternator using the ICE to keep the battery charged, where and how would you tie in the 500hp electric boost to the drive train, assuming it's a string of something like the monster RC type motors coming out?
Click to expand...


I've been thinking about that all night John. :)

I had a vision of takeing each of my rear wheels, and glueing maybe 4"x1"x0.25" neo magnets all the way around the inside of it, and makeing a stator coil setup that covers maybe 1/4-1/3rd of the rotor, and bolts as a replacement for the rear brake calipers (plenty strong rigid mounting point). I'm not bothered by racing with no rear brakes, because the car almost does stoppies under hard braking anyways, but if the controllers had some regen power, it could help. :) If the rear-wheels could be transformed into hubmotors that could do 200hp each for maybe 8seconds at a time before they melt, that would 100% positively put my civic into the low 8-second times... and improve street launches... It could be an even more serious weapon for taking money on the street from ANYTHING. If a turbo hyabusa wants to race? Sure buddy, let's put $500 on it to make it fun. ;) Ferrari Enzo wants to race? Hey, I'll give you 10 car lengths heat-start. :)


It would require a hell of a good shielding setup to keep magnetic road debris from building up on the magnets when you're rolling on the street though... I think it's a workable problem though.
Click to expand...

That would certainly shut AJ up once and for all. I was thinking more like a dozen or so motors like that Colossus on a single shaft. If the magnet backing ring of a hub motor can serve a dual purpose as the tire rim, then racing hubbies could make real sense. Plus most of the stator support is required weight for the axle anyway, and driving the wheel directly means no added weight to the drive train except the stator core, copper, and magnets. To avoid messing with the suspension you might have to do a hollow axle for the wiring and put the motor part on the exterior, and then a side cover keeps debris out. Cogging is going to be an issue when not racing, but if you use it for regen braking too, then you might be able to get away with just no load current draw while driving.

Imagine the stealth potential if you hide the batteries well. Then run a nearly stock motor, and lift the hood and fiddle with the motor some before bet amounts are set. With a sine wave controllers the motors may be silent enough that no one would ever know as long as you don't spin the rear wheels.

Those batteries open up all kinds of possibilities.
 
Hi,
liveforphysics said:
Ferrari Enzo wants to race? Hey, I'll give you 10 car lengths heat-start. :)
Click to expand...
How about an even start for pink slips :D?
 
swbluto said:
$1/wh is way too much. For 10 MW, one would need 125 kwh which is like $125,000. For 2.5 MW(Or somewhere around 3200 hp), one would need about $30,000 worth of batteries. A paltry 1000 hp would require something like $10,000 of batteries.
Click to expand...

liveforphysics said:
Hell, lots of guys with sub 500hp drag cars spend more than $5,000 a season just in fuel system upgrades, engine tuning costs, race fuel, etc. All expenses you wouldn't have with an EV. For the first time, it might actually be cheaper for everyday Joe with no sponsorship to build and race an EV over a gasoline powered car.
Click to expand...

But how much would it cost to build a 1000hp ICE racer, or even a 500hp ICE racer? I'm not talking about continued use, just the initial build. $10,000 doesn't sound like that big of a deal coming from a racer stand point. Also, like Luke mentioned, race fuel adds up in a season. I'm not sure what type of fuel 500hp/1000hp drag guys are running, but when I was roadracing, we were running $26/gallon race fuel. We spent over $3000 just on fuel in one season. And we weren't running boosts like nitro either. I have a chassis sitting in my shop that I have been holding off building cuz I wanted to make it a dragster, and that was low on my priorities. But with these new collosus motors that are coming out and these batts, I might just have to pull that chassis to the front of the shop.
 
Just need to strap so 0000 cable to the little packs and have ago at some the current drag racing electrics out there. Found an older article that mentions a little pinto
http://www.designnews.com/article/277418-Drag_Racing_Goes_Electric.php

"It didn't take long for the racers to realize, though, that those voltages were just too low and too slow. Over time, the numbers soared to 336 V, 360 V and 380 V. Willmon, for example, employs two parallel strings of 30 batteries in his electric 1978 Pinto. The batteries, lead-acid Hawker Odyssey units from Enersys, Inc., reside in the back seat, as well as in the vacated spot where the Pinto's infamous gas tank used to be. They amount to 848 pounds of mass, equally distributed across the rear (drive) axle. With the two strings, Willmon's system creates about 360 V and 1,600 A of current, theoretically generating about 576,000 W (0.576 MW) of power. "
848 pounds of batteries to pump out 1600 amps at 360 volts. Dropping 750 lbs might help them get down the strip a bit quicker :) The pinto $$ is about 20k without batteries though and it seems the hawkers they use are about the same price as mentioned in this thread for nano-techs which is just amazing to me since i've been involved in EVs for so long. Hope they make the track soon.
 
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