Need Help Selecting Bike

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Hi All,

My first post here, and there are so many things going around my head from reading all the great info on here, that i think i should just ask for some advice.

I am thinking of dipping my toe in the electric bike waters for the second time. I have an Urbanmover 36x MTB style off the shelf electric bike at the moment but i think i would like to upgrade to something better. The Urbanmover is fine but the motor is just too weak and it is solely a pedal assist machine.

My thoughts at the moment are this:

I have a 13 mile commute to work (one way) and i need to find a setup that can get me there briskly.

So i was thinking my requirements should be as follows:

- I want 25-30mph top speed and maybe 20mph average (I was thinking a 48v 500w rear wheel setup)
- I will cut down by half on range since this will be half battery weight and i can charge at work (So would 48v 10ah lifepo4 be enough for this range over its life?)
- I do not want lipo ( too difficult for charging etc...)

Do you think a system as above should be enough?

Now the base bikes. I have seen a few and maybe need some help here:

I want a pannier rack that can carry full panniers and battery pack/controller. I want to use Schwalbe Big Apple 26X2.3 to smooth the bumps and give good roll. Maybe a good seat and suspension seatpost to go with this.

This is relatively cheap with a steel frame and front suspension. 7 speed freewheel and v brakes
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverfox-T..._1_41?s=sports&ie=UTF8&qid=1316974285&sr=1-41

This one has front a rear disks. 7 speed freewheel. Alloy tubing
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VIKING-UR...81218?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&var=&hash=item7dbd261513

This one seems good spec for the price. Hydraulic Disks. But is 8 speed? This will be problems for hub motors?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RALEIGH-A...25455?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&var=&hash=item7dbc9e90dd

This one is a little more expensive but has the tyres i want on the bike.
http://www.bikes2udirect.com/B2167.html

Any help in making choices would be much appreciated

 

[dogman dan]

Though some days you'd make it at that speed with 48v 10 ah, I think you really should go with a 48v 15 ah pingbattery or similar lifepo4. If you are using the lesser c rate cells such as pings, you need the 15 ah to have enough amps to sustain a 1000-1200 watt peak motor. If you went to an A123 pack, then maybe a 12 ah pack would be enough.

It just takes more wh than you think, above 25 mph. About 30-40 wh/mi Plus you really need to not use it all everyday, so even though your max expected use is 520 wh, you want to carry battery about the size of 48v 15 ah.

I kind of like the last bike best. The raliegh is ok, but no rear disk. If it at least has a rear disk mount, you could change that later. The other two , nah. The one thing you really want is a big enough triangle to fit a 48v 15 ah battery. Unless you get a triangle shaped A123 pack, you'll need enough space for a box about 6" x 13" . You won't be as happy if you try to carry the battery in the back. So get a big frame unless you are short. If you are short, get a triangle shaped battery to fit smaller frames.

 

[John in CR]

Hombre,

Why not just upgrade your current ebike. Is that a geared hubmotor or direct drive. The motor itself may very well be capable of what you want, though you'd need torque arms to protect the alloy dropouts. Depending on the motor, maybe all you need is more battery, a throttle and a controller. Just because the motor is called 250W means only that you have a 250W limit controller. eg The motor I have is called on some moped an 800W 48V motor, but I run it at 74V and over 5000W. In fact, right now I have my controller tuned to almost 10,000W.

The advantage that bike has over pedal bikes is that it's already made to be electric and you have space for ample batteries to meet your needs with the space behind the seatpost, and the triangle. Guys would kill for that kind of battery space.

 

[LI-ghtcycle]

+1 on what John said-

Even if you decided that you needed a different motor (if your current is a geared motor, you might be pretty limited in potential speed/power by gearing as well) you can get them pretty reasonable here in the for sale section,(possibly even from sellers in the UK in your case I'm guessing?) you could still use the same frame.

Best luck on your build and be sure to let us know what you decide and how it works out! 8)

 

[neptronix]

95% of the time with a pre-built electric bike, you have a battery ( low discharge rating ) controller ( low amp rating ) and motor ( just plain wimpy ) to throw away if you chose to upgrade it.

It is going to cost you a lot less to sell a working ebike and make your $300-$1000, then put that towards a quality used bike.

look for rear dropouts that a torque plate can be fastened to. Rear disc brake compatibility and a flat dropout section makes for an easy rear torque plate setup... if you are going rear motor ( which you should )

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Thank you all for the great replys. Now i find my head is even more confused than when i began

dogman - Thanks for all the good information . It really takes 30-40whrs above 25mph? Wow... i was thinking my max usage would be 20whrs with a bit of pedal assisting. I knew maybe 10ah battery was cutting a bit short over time and i do not want to be left short since is a bit of a leg killing hill just before my work, especially with a 35kg bike with now power

The Raleigh that i linked to there actually has disk front and back (hydraulic). You would recommend disks as a necessity?

So i was thinking that i should discard the idea of buying a very cheap bike and go for the aluminum mid range bikes. Is a 6 or 7 speed cassette required or could i purchase a bike with 8 or 9 cassette?

While the Raleigh above is an ok bike, i would be buying from the UK and paying the price shown. Here in Ireland at the moment is a tax incentive scheme to purchase bikes through your employer and get back approximately half the price of that purchase up to 1000 euro through tax. With this is mind i have also seen a few other options to a local chain store on some bikes. The brand is carrera however they sometimes have a reputation for requiring constant maintenance.

Here is an example:

John, LI-ghtcycle, neptronix - very interesting options there and i will make another post about my thoughts on all of your useful info. My head is awash with so many options

Specs
Lightweight 6061 alloy frame
Suntour XCM-V3 forks with 100mm travel
Alloy double wall rims with 26" x 2.10" Kenda tyres
Front and rear Tektro IO mechanical disc brakes
SRAM 24-speed gearing with SRAM X4 rear mech
SRAM chainset
SRAM trigger shifters

cost is 440 but would probably stand me 250 after tax.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, you might see lower numbers. I carry big wind catching panniers, and raise the handlebars. Some days you'll have a tailwind and get 20 wh mi. Mostly you see about 30 wh/mi at 25, then it goes up a lot for any faster. Hills are another story, I did a ride yesterday up some crazy steep hills and got 70 wh/mi.

Again, if you are going to select a 2c discharge type lifepo4 battery, you pretty much must buy a 15 ah size. Otherwise you discharge at a c rate that lowers the life expectancy too much. BTW, the pingbattery 48v 15 ah is just about the biggest size that can be stuffed into triangles of bikes. And even then, it better be a big triangle. If carried on a rear rack, the 15 pound weight is just about as much as can be tolerated.

I must have been confused which bike I was looking at. I don't get the comment about maintenance, all bikes need a tune every 1000 miles or so. Disk brakes are not mandatory, I just thought you wanted them. I'll take em if I can get em though. I like the way trigger shifters work with half twist throttles. Twist shifters have to be dealt with somehow, to make room for a throttle. Removing the front derailur completely is common. Or get a lever shifter. 8 speeds are fine, just need adjustments to the shifters. 9 speeds in the rear are more likely to need a new deraliur and shifter, + wider chain to work with 7 speed cogs that come with motors.

Again, the main thing is get a frame with a generous sized triangle to carry that batery in.

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Hmmmm ...

I think i may need to lower my speed expectations in order to lower my battery weight. I am not commuting on my current ebike at the moment, but i was getting approx 20 miles to a full charge. 26v 9ah battery. All pedal assist since my current bike does not have a throttle. I would make my 13 miles journey in approx 50min - so maybe 15mph average speed.

Now i am thinking that i will not really be getting a significant performance boost for the amount of money that will be put into this

Here are some photos of the current machine:

The motor has now marking on it. But i think it is a brushless hub motor with 200W continuous. I was thinking of a 500W mac maybe. Is the difference large? Would the Mac be 500W continuous and peak higher??

Either way i could probably sell on the above bike for a decent price rather than mess about with it.

I have some other bikes lying around but i am uncertain of there suitability:

Candidate 1 - the crapper
The frame might not be too bad but has been lying around in rain and all components look shot. Was going to try give this one away

Candidate 2 - the skinny
700c wheels but i think again not suitable

Candidate 3 - the oldie
great bike in its time but it is a little small for me and i am not sure about the comfort

So all in all i should probably do a clear out first

I really do not want to go down the batteries in the triangle route since i am used to carrying plenty of weight on the back and handling is not a big deal for me. I more want briskness in the straight line. Must be rear motor. Fell straight on my shoulder in an icy spell last year. Front wheel began to slide on the bike and of course as the bike was sliding my foot was on the pedal and the motor engaged. Sore shoulder for a month. I thought not very safe for an off the shelf ebike.

 

[dogman dan]

Even the good looking one to me, ol #3 does look a bit too outdated. The one with the poor fit can be fixed with a longer seatpost and riser handlebars. But again, won't match the performance of a newer, likely disk brake bike.

20-25 mph is not so terrible in efficiency. It's above that that watts fly out the battery. Maybe a battery upgrade to higher voltage, 48v 15 amps using a new controller is all you really need. 48v 10 ah is fine for the 15 amp controller. And those motors can usually handle that wattage. The new controller would ditch the pas if you want to. 48v 15 amps gives you 700 w max. That's enough to go 20-25 mph for sure. 30 mph takes at least 1000 w. 20 can be done on less than 400, if you pedal.

So echoing the others, a new battery and controller is all you really need to get a lot more than 15 mph performance. 20-22 mph is a pretty sweet spot for the small gearmotors. 48v 10 ah would give you 15-20 mile range at 20 mph.

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

hmmm... interesting.

So you think the motor that is currently on the bike could put out that 700W which a different controller and battery??

maybe this is the logical next step to take in my electric bike journey. I take it that the the controller is in that enclosed black box area and the bottom of the battery mount?? It look a very small space compared to some of the controllers i see on here.

I am not a whizz on wiring. So do you think it would be an easy job to bypass the discharge pins/controller of the bike and wire a new battery and controller to the existing motor?

Oh ... one more thing. Maybe i should not step to lipo at this moment in time. If i did i think i would need double the range since it would not be acceptable to charge at work. Would lipo offer a greater range on a pound for pound basis? or would i need a minimum 44.4v 20ah pack to make the 26mile round trip?

 

[d8veh]

First of all, you need to decide how much you want to spend and get a clear idea of what you want to achieve. i think that if you use any of your existing bikes as donors, you'll end up wishing for better. You don't have to buy a new donor bike. you can get a perfectly good one on Ebay for half the price.

For £999 you can get an Alien Aurora that'll do everything that you want - ready made. Bear in mind that a kit cost about £250, battery £350 plus donor bike.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Alien-AURORA-Electric-Sports-Bicycle-Bike-e-bike-/150665732262?pt=UK_Bikes_GL&hash=item231460a0a6

To make your own ebike from a donor and kit takes a little know-how and a bit of ability to make things. If you have those skills, have a look at these that I made. For about £750, you can have a better bike than the Alien - one with proper full-suspension for about £750.
http://www.pedelecs.co.uk/forum/electric-bike-reviews/9467-giant-bafang-bpm.html
I use mainly a 10aH44v lipo pack for my 30 mile round trip commute and it does it easily, but I don't go very fast. If you want to go above 15mph, you'd be better off with a 20aH 36v Ping battery. As you've figured out, it's a lot of messing about to charge 20aHs of lipos. The BPM motor is probably the best value for money in the UK, the motors that our US friends use tend to be more expensive over here. A lot of pedelecs forum members have built bikes using the BPM kit from BMSbattery, so there'll be loads of help there if you need it. In the UK we need our bikes to be much more stealthy if you want to go over 15mph, so large 48v batteries and pancake type motors are very risky I think that you'll find a 350w BPM motor with a 20aH battery easily enough to do what you need and give a good balance between speed, climbing power, range, stealthiness and cost. If you have any questions about my builds, send me a pm through the pedelecs forum - or ask here.

 

[John in CR]

I still say your current ebike is the best choice, and easiest to upgrade to the performance level you want, but based on yours bike collection you just like to buy new. I'll reserve the I-told-you-so's for later, including one about battery location. The longer wheelbase and extra battery space makes it the clear winner, and that's before getting into time savings of upgrading instead of converting. Yes, the tiny bit of wiring is a snap, and plenty of assistance is available here on the forum.

 

[TonyReynolds]

I think there's been a lot of good advice here, but I would add that I think it's a mistake to NOT seriously consider putting the battery in the triangle. It gets the CG lower and more forward and frees up weight capacity in the rear end for cargo. I also wouldn't dismiss your 700c donor out of hand. You should be able to put 622x32 tires on that, depending on how close the brake bracket/strut is to the tire already. That tire would get you a better ride. I have a 700c setup with a 500W MAC kit from Cell_Man and like it very much. With the 11.5Ah A123 triangle battery and 30A controller I'm regularly able to get 1650W out of the motor, which with peddling equates to about 28MPH. John's right about your current bike, which has more room for batteries. Even a longer Ping battery in your current battery bay would give you better performance and more capacity (guessing) with a controller upgrade. Your current controller (in the bottom bracket?) could easily be bypassed.

Best of luck,

Tony

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Well guys. I am coming more around to the the idea of using my current bike. I maybe upgrade for big apples and less rolling resistence and get a little fitter. Then maybe try to find a different controller and new battery and up the voltage level.

d8veh... i have a read of some of your threads over on pedelecs -- nice builds !!! How are those chinese lipos?

Tony... very nice build. What kind of range are you getting from your 11.5ah?

 

[Metallover]

Check out the buy/sell section of pinkbike.com for a used bike- that's where I got mine and I'm very happy with it.

 

[dogman dan]

Well, it's true, for some of us wiring a new controller to a motor is a snap. For others, forget it. There are 8 wires, and you have to figure out what order to put them in. The colors won't match anymore most likely.

You could easily buy a kit and put it on that frame though. But at that point it starts to make sense to use one of your old bikes again. Round and round. Easy decisions if the budget has no limit, tough ones if budget is tight.

Perhaps a good approach would be to build the basic commuter I recomend often, and put off the date to do it till later if you must. Start with a decent direct drive motor kit. These motors generally come with 36v 20 amp controllers. Then depending on your need for speed, or more power to climb hills, buy a 36v 20 ah or 48v 15 ah lifepo4 battery. Pingbattery is my recomended guy. Budget in USD is at least $1000. But you get a very good bike that can go 20-30 miles, at 20-27 mph. The battery will fit in the triangle of some MTB's. Expect to get around 10,000 miles out of it.

 

[TonyReynolds]

Tony... very nice build. What kind of range are you getting from your 11.5ah?

I *should* be able to get about 20 miles. To tell you the truth, between work and sucky weather I really don't know. I hope in the next couple weeks to get a good morning when I can get the bike on one of our local paved trails and go for it till LVC, and then sit and read while I wait for my wife to come fetch me. Then I'll know; right now I don't. I'm fairly CERTAIN that there's another 10-15 amps of battery in my future, on a front rack.

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Hi All,

The Electric bike has been on the back burner for a while and sadly i am still in the car for now. It has come back into my mind recently that i must get a project underway for next spring and take to the roads again. What stirred my interest again was seeing a Big Turtle King Electric scooter on special offer in my own country. The Add said Yamaha. The max speed up to 45Km/h and the range up to 65Km/h. On further investigation the bike was chinese. Have a 60V/20Ah SLA Battery.

So low cycles for recharge and certainly not capable of the range and speed required for my 13 miles commute each way. Think i would be lucky to get half way at the 45km/h speed. Bike weighs 150kg. Add to this tax and insurance and the bike is a complete non-starter and the battery would be dead in two years.

So this has brought me back to bicycles. Really the only way to go. Cheaper, lighter, more bang for buck, no tax, no insurance and if stranded you can cycles or push it with ease.

I have been look more at some projects and more specifically Lipo. It interest me a lot as a way to get a cheap battery that does not add too much weight to the bike.

I was looking at various build threads on the kw/h consumed by various projects and it seems to vary greatly so i cannot guage with certainty what are my required:

I see over on pedelecs some figures as low as 5/10 kw/h
On here i see figures of maybe 20/kwh up to 20mph and then it goes through the roof after this.

So i was thinking between 20-25mph might be the sweet spot in the range/performance equation. Maybe even 20mph.

With this is mind the project i was dreaming of in this.

1. Found a very good deal on this bike and i love the look of the bike:

Pros:
Stealthy
Front Rear Discs
My preferred bike style for bike
Only one chainring and one sprocket with nexus hub (maybe a con)

Cons:
38t chainring and 16T rear sprocket with Nexus three (it is sufficient for pedal assist? at 20-25mph?)
Is nexus any good for an electrice project?
Motor must be front mounted.
Is front discs sufficient to clear motor?
Front dropout? Right for torque plates?

I am sure there are many other questions

2. Falcon Ev Frame Bag.

Stealthy. Looks like it is made for this bike. Colours and all. Could hold my lipo or lifepo4 batteries and maybe controller.

3. Batteries

Was thinking 4 of these to start me off. To give a 44V 10.4Ah 20C Pack ... mated to a cheap charger

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5200mAh-2...sGames_RadioControlled_JN&hash=item19bc3074cd

4. Motor

I was initially think of a Mac 500W kit but maybe i should look of the 350W Front kit since i am not looking for mad speed. In fact 22mph might be just right.

Questions: I hope you guys can helps out

The nexus 3 speed hub: It is any good for an electric bike? Maybe could change the sprocket from 16T to 13/14T. The Chainring at 38T i could change this to up the gearing. What do you think. Ideally i would like to leave the bike as standard as possible but also help out with pedal assist.

These lipos? Good or bad choice?

Range:
Ok so with this setup i would have 44V (more off the charger) driving a 350W front drive motor. 10.4Ah pack but many say only 70% useable. So 7.2Ah or so.

Then i would have 316 usable W/hrs. So 44V driving 350W motor with pedal assist to 20-22mph for 13 miles.

So i could only use 24W/hrs per mile. It is doable or not?

 

[dogman dan]

Wouldn't be my first choice for a longish ride because of lack of suspension. But I'm old, have a wrecked back, got tired of breaking spokes because I no longer weigh 115 pounds. A lot depends on the road conditions where you ride. Here the heat cracks make it bumpy as hell.

The nexus means front hub, which I actually prefer on slowish street commuter bikes. Maybe you could pick out something with front suspension, and regular gearing. Then you get some suspension and could easily be sure to keep the front disk by using a rear hub.

Not that I can tell you what kind of bike you prefer. But there has been a definite trend among us here, to head towards full suspension for the second e bike, which is often intended to go 30 mph or more. Unless you raced, you may not realize how much the road vibration gets old when going that fast at all times. Most of us are used to going over 20 mph in short bursts, not for half an hour or more.

As for getting great range it's not really a matter of motor choice so much as choosing to pedal a lot, and not go so fast. In general, 20 mph takes 350 watts no matter what motor you are using. Pedaling to 10 mph before using the motor saves power no matter what motor you are using, and so on. The way you get 20 mph to take 200 watts is to PEDAL. Personally, I'd just carry 6 of those batteries so you don't have to be so tight on energy. Carrying 6 is generally pretty easy, and still pretty light.

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Yeah, I see what your saying about the frame without suspension.

But it think i could live with that. I commute on a rigid Raleigh for years without suspension and i am relatively intact. I was thinking to add big apples and suspension seatpost to offset a little.

Just reading up on the specs of the bike. The front forks are cromo so i would be good to go without torque plates?

Was thinking Bafang Front Motor ... maybe 350W. This is small enough but the disc are 160mm would a 203mm upgarde be necessary/fit?

The roads are ok here and i would be all commuting.

The only other thing i am concerned about is the gearing. With a 38T chainring and 16T rear sprocket mated to Nexus 3 Speeed. Would this be geared high enough to add my own contribution at 20mph?

Thanks for all replies

 

[dogman dan]

I know how you are thinking, and for a youger man the 13 mile one way ride is really nothing at all. What suprised me when I started riding around at 25 mph all the time was the wear and tear on my rims and spokes. I'm heavier, then add another 30 pounds of battery and motor, then add the crappy roads. I was hunting down a fs bike in 30 days. At sub 20 mph, I could ride my vintage raliegh with skinny tires and rims with no problems. At 25, problems.

Not trying to say you made a stupid choice at all, just saying I've watched more than one guy make the progression to FS. I'm not a fan of the nexus myself, but those who ride in wet and mud tend to be more into the sealed hub. Re the gearing, just make sure the frame could accomodate a bigger chainring if you need to pop a 48 tooth mtb crank on it.

 

[Ykick]

I still don't get why you don't rework your current eBike? Good suspension fork would do wonders and you can find room on that sucker for two battery packs. One behind the seat tube and another in triangle. That motor could probably endure some over volting. Worst case stick a Mac or even go DD (direct drive) on the rear.

Good luck charging at work with RC Lipo so you're looking at 20Ah minimum for round trip. Remember that when it comes to battery packs, none of 'em ever put out more Ah's as they age. Always less and then you factor wind, hills, cold - the most practical estimate is double what you "think" you need and you'll be in good shape for a long time.

I only speak from experience and I have a front DD hub bike. It's a good spare but I don't like riding it as much as my rear drive. Big apples aren't gonna turn a non-suspension into suspension. Think about it - there's a lot more weight and speed involved with eBike so unless you ride super smooth pavement rigid will be harsh.

 

[HombreNeuvoElectro]

Hi All,

This thread is a little old but rather than start a new thread i have drag up my old one looking for advice. Again

My current ebike is out of action and i am currently cycling to work on a hybrid (no powerrrr), but it is amazing how the old body adapts. Takes me about 60min to do my 12.5mile commute one way to work. Not too bad and to be honest my old electric bike did not get me there much faster. I think when i was looking at the stats i was averaging 13.9mph on the old bike.

But i have still been building my new project in my head. It is definitely a slow burner. Since i was last cosidering a purchase of a potential project i have learned a little more and so can maybe be a bit more sensible in what i want to achieve.

From gleaning information and knowledge of the more experienced member here i have come to the following conclusions for my build.

1. Bike - Ideally full suspension and minimum front suspension. Because of the cost of a good full suspension i am siding with a decent quality hardtail when good triangle space.
2. Motor - Either a MAC 500w (8T)rear or a BPM 500W rear(siding towards the MAC). My commute is mostly flat but there are a couple of hills so i would like a little torque for these.
3. Speed - I must remember this is a bicycle and for a commute. So reliability No. 1 (for this reason i ignored the cyclone type motor). Initially i though more speeeddd, but by being more sensible i think it would draw too much attention. Also i am aware the efficiency Wh/per mile decrease rapidly as speed increases. So i think 22mph without pedaling capability would be sufficient (although i would always pedal). This would also avoid larger crank upgrades.
4. Battery - Lipo Out. I think Ping Out. A123 Cellman with high C potential seems the best at this moment in time. Now straight away i would say triangle pack 52v 11Ah but the reality is i think this is overkill for my targets. I can charge each side of 12.5miles and i think 39V 9Ah pack would be spot on.
5. Future upgrades - I want to select wisely and this is where the MAC 8T comes in. But then maybe i make the wrong choice with the 39V battery if i get the bug for future performance.

The reason for this post is i would like some more advice on potential bike choices. Again!!! I have spotted a bike on offer for a very good price and the moment. Very good spec for the price and i can get a tax break on it. Here it is

Voodoo Bantu

It is very good spec for the price. Suntour Raidon Air 120mm and Shimano Hydraulics 180mm front and 160mm rear

Would the 160mm rotor cause problems for motor install at the rear?

Need someone to critique the drop out. They are not flat so i would be thinking torque arm either side and not plates.

Here is another bike i have been watching but i think it is made from much cheaper components and maybe and bad FS?

Thank you in advance for any advice

 

[dogman dan]

I would say that you want to be able to go 20 mph for sure, but on that bike you may find you like 25 mph just fine. For that reason, I would tend to advise you to go for the gold, and get the big triangle battery. You'll appreciate the extra speed when you need it, like a day with a stiff headwind. Nothing wrong with a few more miles of range either. However, the smaller 36v (39) battery will fill the needs you state.

8t mac motor for sure. You'll love it, everybody I read about is loving thiers.

I see no problems with the 160 mm disk. With some fiddling with washers and spacers, you should be able to make it work fine. You may have to spread the dropouts to 140 mm after adding washers, but that should be no problem, only less than 3 mm per side is fine with an alloy frame.

The dropouts. Always more metal there is better. Recently Grin Cyclery has introduced a new torque arm designed specificly for rear motors.

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/photos/TorqArmRev4.jpg

This page has other goodies you might need, C washers, Spacer washers, Disk spacers.

http://www.ebikes.ca/store/store_connectors.php

Two would be ideal. Pricy, but well worth every penny, and not much more costly than custom fabrication localy. Other options include making your own version out of 1/4 inch plate steel with a drill, a file, and a grinder or hacksaw.