need help to catch wife

This daft situation where it's legal to sell something but illegal to use it, really annoys me. These scooters are just the latest example of stuff that's been sold by unscrupulous vendors to unwitting purchasers, before them we've had everything from radio transmitters to petrol power bike conversion kits sold, often via eBay, with slightly misleading adverts.

The last eBay seller (the chap who did a runner after Trading Standards became involved) was pretty clever. His advert said that he 'believed' these scooters to comply with the EAPC regulations and then linked directly to the text of the EAPC regulations. At first sight, you could read this as being some sort of statement that they were compliant, but he was clever enough to only say that he "believed they might" comply, implying that customers should check as there was some uncertainty. The advert wasn't exactly misleading, but neither was it entirely honest, so I am pretty sure he would have ended up with nothing more than a telling off had he been caught.

The victims in all these cases are always the innocent purchasers, who buy these things in good faith, only to find that they've got no real way of seeking recompense from the vendor if they subsequently get caught using them. Of course, there's always the chance that they won't get caught, the police aren't that familiar with the EAPC regulations and may not bother to check. Whether ignorance of the legal situation regarding these scooters would be accepted as mitigation in court, should you be unlucky enough to be caught, is debatable. My guess is that discussing it on an open forum like this may well undermine ignorance of the law as a mitigating factor. The really worrying aspect, in terms of penalties for breaking what is a pretty arcane bit of law, is the fact that it lays the rider open to charges of riding without valid mandatory third party insurance, an offence that the courts don't tend to treat lightly.

Jeremy
 
Jeremy Harris said:
... The really worrying aspect, in terms of penalties for breaking what is a pretty arcane bit of law, is the fact that it lays the rider open to charges of riding without valid mandatory third party insurance, an offence that the courts don't tend to treat lightly.

Jeremy

That's the really nasty bit. You do something on what you think is a bicycle, and suddenly you're faced with the motoring law and could have your driving licence taken away.

Nick
 
hi Tiberius--link as requested--www.fun2ride.co.uk--cheers
 
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, galanc, I really am. I spent hours trying to help the last chap I know who got caught riding one of these (sold by a vendor with a different name, who'd imported a container load of them to Southampton docks).

The seller in this case is clearly advertising them as "electric mopeds" so isn't pretending that they are electric bikes, even though he's provided a copy of the EAPC regulations (under the 'information' tab) so that he can legitimately claim that he has informed potential purchasers of the law before they have committed to purchase. The fact that it would be fairly difficult (but not impossible) to get them road registered as mopeds isn't mentioned, but that's presumably down to the buyer to sort out. As the old saying goes, 'buyer beware'..............

I'd say that he's discharged his duty of care, in law, to inform purchasers in every regard, even down to stating that there are two speeds, 15mph for on-road (which happens to be the maximum power-assist speed under EAPC) and 30mph off-road. He's also made it clear where some of his products are road legal as ebikes, the folding electric bike, for example, states the basic rider requirements as they apply to an EAPC and it looks very much as if that product is actually legal to ride on the road. I think that it's morally dubious to sell a product that is clearly designed to be used on roads, but which doesn't comply with the regulations needed to do so, though.

Jeremy
 
The problem with these scooter type vehicles as opposed to an over powered [illegal] bicycle is that when the police see them they look like an unregistered motor scooter, so they pull the rider over, then the fun starts. :oops:
 
That's how the chap in Southampton got picked up. The police spotted the lack of registration plate on what looked like a scooter, didn't spot the vestigial pedals and so pulled him over. As soon as they'd gone to the trouble of stopping him, they made a point of checking the law, discovered it was non-compliant as an EAPC and therefore was a motor vehicle being ridden illegally. To give them their due, they didn't prosecute and did show sympathy for the way the chap had bought the thing in good faith. Nevertheless, it had to be trailered back to his house and he was ordered not to use it on the road until it was properly registered, insured, displaying a tax disc etc.

Jeremy
 
galanc said:
ps-- i am glad that you all find this amusing--when was the last time a 'bird' passed you lot--we should all be on the same side here --cheers :
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Sorry to hear your troubles. I would try to sell the scoots to some dandy that wants to patrol their estate. :(
 
Haha He won't catch that one. I think this gal actually lives in Colorado now..
 
No don't sell them, just take the motor, wiring, throttle, controller, batteries and mount them on an acceptable regular bicycle frame. You can probably even wire up a pedelec sensor.
 
hi folks--i think that this post has ran its cource and has to be laid to rest--i would like to thank all who participated in spite of the negative conclusion--i will just have to accept that the wife is going to reach the jail before me and that i have been well and truley conned---see you around---cheers :(
ps-i think i passed that 'bird on the bike ' the other day :mrgreen:
 
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