New 60v Build. What can i do next?

[Link]

I have a good idea as to what that grinding is.

It DOES have an LVC. When you accelerate, the batteries sag below it. However, since the batteries aren't actually dead, they pop back up above it as soon as the power is killed. Effectively, it's turning on and off a few dozen times per second. This used to happen with my controller when I was on only 48V and the batteries were near dead.

And, yah, I'll bet that motor got hot. Mine can get hot if I push it and I'm not even running half of that. Even a C'lyte would get warm at those kinds of power levels. Probably was a good idea you didn't ride for very long. :|

 

[lazarus2405]

Even a C'lyte would get warm at those kinds of power levels.

As much as I extol the thermal virtues of big Clyte motors, I'd be very surprised if an x5 wasn't hot after 10min at 90a. I suspect you could cook lunch on a 400 after such a treatment.

 

[icecube57]

so is that what the grinding noise is or explaination of the lvc would it make any difference adding a second motor. I think im going to go and check out that other controller cause this one obviously cant be modded. If i do decided to keep it would it be safe for a 5-6 mile commute. Perk effect sucks was gone 2-3 minutes used almost 2AH out of the pack.... cant be ginger with it cause there is the grinding noise... wait is that brush arching???? and its basically fully power all the time. There is no such thing as half throttle. Or atleast according to the watts up its pulling 90+ amps constantly except for in free wheeling no load. The other controller looks like its serviceable. Ill remove those shunts like link said and ill be back in business.

 

[icecube57]

So i bought another controller 60v 1000w on Ebay. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Electric-E-Scooter-Moped-Bike-Part-Controller-60V-1000W_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ10066QQihZ020QQitemZ300228380093QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Looks like i can service this one. Il remove some of the shunts and have it pull about 50A and well go from there. Anyone need a 60v 100A controller.

 

[Link]

That one should be okay. YiYun makes good stuff. They don't pot their stuff, either.

Also, you shouldn't have to remove any shunts on that one. It'll probably pull between 30A and 50A stock.

 

[icecube57]

I got hope on this controller. This might be the final chapter in this build. Mayby i can finally switch back to my hybrid setup or go back to completely lithium whem money allows me to. No one ever told me what the grinding noise was.

 

[Link]

No one ever told me what the grinding noise was.

I have a good idea as to what that grinding is.

It DOES have an LVC. When you accelerate, the batteries sag below it. However, since the batteries aren't actually dead, they pop back up above it as soon as the power is killed. Effectively, it's turning on and off a few dozen times per second. This used to happen with my controller when I was on only 48V and the batteries were near dead.

If it isnt' this, you could have probs. :?

 

[gasfree]

Hi!

just wondering how are you charging all 5 of your batteries? I am currently using 4 but haven't quite figured out how to charge them. The charger I have just blinks with all 4 plugged in. Any ideas would be helpful thanks.

 

[icecube57]

I originally had six batteries and one soneil 36v 2A charger and i wired them into two 36v packs and paralleled them so the charger sees one big battery. It took 12 hours to fully charge 36v (24AH) = 2(packs) x36v x 3(12AH). I went on ebay and found a 60v 1.8AH Charger. Its chinese made... but its a smart charger. It automatically cuts off when fully charged and provides a floating charge(safe to leave plugged in) (checked it with Watts Up meter). My bats hover between 13.2-13.8v. Pack charged voltage of 68.37v Charges in 6-7 Hours while im at work if im using strickly SLA. Be carful which chargers you pick. I used to have a 1A 12v charger that took the voltage level on my SLA to unheard of level when they were fully charged. (15-16+) Which is very bad!

 

[icecube57]

This has been an all round good but crappy day. I got my new controller. Went by the local electronics store got some connectors and whatever and got home...Installed the controller... figured out the cryptic non existant wiring schematics for this controller. I took it out for a test drive. I rode around my complex. No grinding noise. My Watts Up meter says this new controller is pulling about 90A peaking over 5000+ watts. The controller is Yin Yun YK-43 i cant find any info on it. Maybe its some rouge model or something. I cracked it open. 100v caps NEC Fets. I cant figure out how to remove the shunts im thinking i remove the copper wires and fill in the links with solder. Link can you shed some light on it. Pictures in post. Anyways. During my test run the motor went completely dead. Controller still had power all my connectors were good. I lugged the heavy thing back home. Thought it was my throttle. I checked my wires and everything and i decided to see if the motor even had any continuity. It didnt... im like awww sheit. I fried the motor. I cried a silent cry. I began to disassemble the bike and took the front wheel off... oddly i couldnt find the right allen for like 45 min. Took all the bolts off the motor... a little perplexed on how to crack it open.. did a quick google search... fly wheel puller... screw that. I went out to my old trusty friend the asphalt and gave it a solid wack on the axel open seasame. ..Something reeks in it lol. Took it back in side. Carbon dust wasnt so bad. The brush holder was in ok shape 85% health. A little charred on one side. Major brush arching on one brush. Then i realize that the spring in one of the brush holder was collapsed. While the other spring was extending the brush at full attention. I manipulated the brush spring until it match the other side. I took a brass brush and clean the connections. wiped out the motor with a clean rag. blowed any loose particles out. Reassembled the brush holder. And the motor... Works like a champ. Took about 4 hours from installing my controller.. test drive... disassembly... troubleshooting... and reassembly. As for my controller i have to get the amps down... thats a must. Can someone interpret these pictures. Am i right when i say remove the copper wires and fill in the gaps with solder...to reduce the current

 

[TylerDurden]

Hi,

I can't see any shunts, but the pix are soft. You could shoot again further away and we can zoom in on the hirez.

The derailleur is in focus, so that distance should work.

The shunts usually look like dirty-grey-silver jumpers, about 1/2" long.

 

[Link]

Looks kinda ghetto. Even as blurry as those pics are, I should still be able to make out a shunt. :?

Might actually be using a length of that copper as a shunt. Not that good an idea, since copper changes it's resistance more with temperature than a proper shunt.

Could probably follow the traces and figure out more if you could post clearer pictures of the top and bottom of the PCB.

 

[icecube57]

i hOpe tHesE Are BeTtEr!

 

[TylerDurden]

They good.

There are no shunts, AFAIKT.

One of the EEs may be able to determine which pin on the IC controls the current limit.

I suggest starting a new thread in the tech section, using your latest pix.

BTW, The copper wire on the back helps carry the FETs' current and keeps the traces from burning off the PCB.

 

[ort5]

It is entirely possible that this controller does not actually do current limiting.

 

[icecube57]

New pics of current build

 

[Link]

5kW peak ah, ha, ha, ha, ha! :lol:

 

[icecube57]

Stall test done today to figure out worst case scenario. 109.5 A 5804w being consumed by the motor. You could hear the windings crackling from the heat i suppose. Free wheel current consumption starts at 2.4A and 180w and tapers down to and un know amount... i dont know if its due to the inital heating of the winding causing the resistance to be high and as it cools it lowers the amps... but this goes against laws of physics and science.More current flows the colder it is not the hotter it is. Or is the controller looking at the resistance and realizing that it needs to deliver more power to over come it.When i did the stall test the results kept getting higher. I posted the last results from my 3 tests on a fully charged pack. Maybe my therory is correct. But even at crusing speed the Amps doesnt taper off like it should. It has me worried. Maybe im just too fat. Im figuring this setup is only good for short bursts when you really need the power to over come something really quickly. Not wide open throttle. Is this setup viable for a 4-5m commute over moderate terrain. Sustaining it at amount of current is not a good Idea. Does heat affect performance of the motor. Im kinda sensing it but i maybe just my mind. Imma call WE and see if they can give me more specs to see the durability on voltage and A of the motor.

 

[Link]

The freewheel thing is probably caused by the motor cooling off. Less heat = more powerful magnets = more torque/less RPM = less watts.

How many amps is the thing drawing at full out? It shouldn't be THAT high. You may have melted the insulation on the windings partway and have a short somewhere that is only intermittent. The motor would still run, but the current draw would be really high. Just my guess. :?

 

[icecube57]

How much is my bike worth? Someone was willing to pay me on the spot for it and i highly considered it. I told them the down sides of my setup but they still wanted it. I know that you all prob wouldnt buy it cause there are better motors and controllers and bikes and batteries. But what do you think the private party value of the bike would be to the average joe with the reasonable knowledge of the field and the value of a dollar.

 

[TylerDurden]

Stall test done today to figure out worst case scenario. 109.5 A 5804w being consumed by the motor. You could hear the windings crackling from the heat i suppose. Free wheel current consumption starts at 2.4A and 180w and tapers down to and un know amount... i dont know if its due to the inital heating of the winding causing the resistance to be high and as it cools it lowers the amps... but this goes against laws of physics and science.More current flows the colder it is not the hotter it is. Or is the controller looking at the resistance and realizing that it needs to deliver more power to over come it.When i did the stall test the results kept getting higher. I posted the last results from my 3 tests on a fully charged pack. Maybe my therory is correct. But even at crusing speed the Amps doesnt taper off like it should. It has me worried. Maybe im just too fat. Im figuring this setup is only good for short bursts when you really need the power to over come something really quickly. Not wide open throttle. Is this setup viable for a 4-5m commute over moderate terrain. Sustaining it at amount of current is not a good Idea. Does heat affect performance of the motor. Im kinda sensing it but i maybe just my mind. Imma call WE and see if they can give me more specs to see the durability on voltage and A of the motor.

Current should peak at stall.
Current should valley at no-load

As a motor heats, it gains resistance creating more heat. Heat losses slow the motor so current rises (as if you were braking). This is the dreaded "spiral of death". As ort5 remarked, there might not be any current limiting to save your motor.

You might not see any taper of current while riding, if the motor cannot reach no-load speed.

As for the value of your bike: sum the cost of all the parts, add 15%, then multiply your hours of construction x $100.

 

[Link]

As for the value of your bike: sum the cost of all the parts, add 15%, then multiply your hours of construction x $100.

LOL, nobody would be able to buy pretty much any bike on here if it worked like that. Even I have easily over $1000 worth of work in mine for $100/hr.

And since when do USED parts go UP in value? :lol:

As to the actual value of the bike? I dunno. SLA sucks, so don't expect much there. The motor's been severely abused (LOL), but apparently still works like normal (emphasis on apparently). The controllers are fine, so you could probably get near full price for them. Not sure what you paid for your frame.

What'd he offer you for it?

 

[dogman dan]

Used parts go up in value because you improved them.

 

[TylerDurden]

Seriously, I charge for my skillz and my experienze.

There could be considerations for wear, prototyping and one-offs, but they can go either way.

8)

 

[Link]

Used parts go up in value because you improved them.

True, but a BD36 at 100A hasn't been improved much, IMO.

There could be considerations for wear, prototyping and one-offs, but they can go either way.

LOL