~~New BUILD: Specialized "WattHopper" ~6KW

[sllikskills]

POWER DILEMMA (sorry for long post)


Now with the swingarm still being fabricated, and spokes STILL on their way, I've gotten pre-occupied with the nitty gritty electric stuff and came across a new dillema...

Okay, so being that this is my first fully custom build, my NEWB self completely overshot a small detail - my power expectations.
Ideally, I want this baby to push 6,000 watts via 60V 100A - keeping the speed to about 40-45mph depending on my total weight, but getting me there ridiculously fast! I REALLY want this thing to have 100A of acceleration power..

Now that I am closer to purchasing my Adaptto controller, I've realized that the Mini-E will not be able to power up 100A.

Although nominal/peak phase current is 80A/180A respectively, I took this mistakenly as the maximum discharge current of the battery! STUPID ME.
If I use a Mini-E for this bike, then I could only safely run a maximum discharge current of 65A. Speaking to my battery guy, he'd supply me a 60V 20ah battery with a 50A BMS. HOWEVER I AM CRAVING MORE FOR THIS BIKE!! And more importantly, I don't think 50A will do this monster x5403 any justice...
I might have to bite the bullet and purchase a Max-E to see my dreams through, which is CONSIDERABLY more expensive...time to work overtime!

I've made accurate cutout models of both controllers and took a picture for possible optimal placements on my bike. The Max-E is ginormous. Of course, the Mini-E would look a lot more sleek considering its placement, as well...



WHAT SHOULD I DO???!? I've been speaking with my battery guy back and forth on what I should do, and can't come to a conclusion!! We've even considered making a custom battery that could fit in the triangle ALONG with the Mini-E or the Max-E inside, but that would siginificantly lower the amount of amp hours I will get, and that's not something I'd really want to lose..

What do you guys think??


Rix, truly gotta thank ya for staying up to date with my build - never thought I'd respect someone I haven't met in person so much :lol: Cheers to you, my man.

 

[Rix]

No, you the man! I like following home builds. Home builds are what started the ebike revolution. John K, head man at Stealth, started out over 10 years ago by converting a ktm 125 to electric. Talk with your battery builder. Ask him if he could build you a 16s pack (67volts hot off charge) 66 bulk charge that would meet your needs. Running a 16s pack with the Adaptor Max E with the OVS set at 7 would give you almost 60mph with the 5403.

 

[sllikskills]

Spokes arrived today, and I've already begun the lacing process - Here is a picture of how the bike looks :




I can't wait until the swingarm arrives. Then I can give her a whole new paintjob.

I have decided to stick with the Adaptto Mini-E for this bike. The Max-E could easily be overkill, and the Mini-E has a great spot for placement to preserve the stealthiness of the bike. Especially now that I have the Vector frame from Germany for my Cromotor build and see how sturdy it is compared to lightweight bike frame, I started to hesitate at the idea of 100A on a Specialized frame. I've worked out a way to get a 60A BMS so it will work perfectly with the controller. I just hope 3600W is enough juice for this huge 5403!

I have both a Max-E and a Mini-E on the way soon hopefully, and will leave it to my CroMotor build to push 8000-9000W of greatness.

Stay tuned!

 

[Rix]

Yah, 3600wh will make the 5403 move along nicely, and one things for sure, you will never hurt that motor at that peak current, as long as its moving. Talk about way over engineering. I wouldn't even bother monitoring your hubmotor temp so adding wire for temp monitoring is not necessary. If 3600wh is all you are planning on running, the H4080, mxus 4T, or TC4080 would all be better and lighter options, but none of those options are a tough as the 5403.

 

[Simple818]

How has your experience been with Quentin? I'm a little nervous getting a battery from him since he is such a new vendor

 

[r3volved]

Quentin was awesome to deal with. I was very hesitant at first (my biggest purchase to date) as well but he answered every question I had in honesty and helped me design my specific block size. His communication is confidence inspiring.
I found his price comparible to others and very quick shipping. His build quality is up there with my Ping pack and waaaay better than my vpower pack.

He's actually been in business for a long time but hadn't pushed international sales until recent. He deals a lot with crystalite. I can't report yet on longevity or performance yet as I've only tested that it works - my bullied is 80% ready though for the road now.

He's very responsive! Shoot him an email or PM.

 

[Rix]

Quentin was awesome to deal with. I was very hesitant at first (my biggest purchase to date) as well but he answered every question I had in honesty and helped me design my specific block size. His communication is confidence inspiring.
I found his price comparible to others and very quick shipping. His build quality is up there with my Ping pack and waaaay better than my vpower pack.

He's actually been in business for a long time but hadn't pushed international sales until recent. He deals a lot with crystalite. I can't report yet on longevity or performance yet as I've only tested that it works - my bullied is 80% ready though for the road now.

He's very responsive! Shoot him an email or PM.

What battery builder are you guys talking about?

 

[r3volved]

Unless there's multiple battery building Quentin's...the Quentin that I'm talking about is:

ES member: Cryzymotor
http://www.ex-battery.com
His email is on the website...I'd post it but he'll probably get bot spam.

 

[sllikskills]

I only have great things to say about that man.

Yep, crzymotor - we're all talking about the same guy. I was just lucky enough to trip on his thread one morning while I was just starting my day with some coffee, and the rest was history.

If I check my gmail inbox right now, we've messaged each other about 50 times each in the span of 2 months. I can say I was pretty much communicating with him on a daily basis (and he lives on the other half of the world!) Reliability and communication is something you don't have to worry about. This guy cares. I'm not the most experienced either, so there were many times I suggested something, and he would say something like... Nahhh you'd really want to do this or that instead, definitely not a Yes-Man.

You can't be mad about the prices at all - extremely reasonable, and he uses Samsung 25R or 25E batteries depending on your build. He also has A123 cells if you're into that kind of stuff (30C is not for the feint hearted). @r3volved - definitely my biggest purchase to date. I shelled out around 2200 for international wire transfer (I bought two monster batteries) so I know that you could feel hesitant about that - Simple818, but he definitely has not one drop of sketchiness in the way he does business.

I sent Quentin sketches of my bikes with measurements, and he'd return the next day with CAD files showing possible battery arrangements - he's quick and can work on custom shaped batteries if requested.

Most recently, he contacted me yesterday and told me my batteries and BMS's are ready to go, and asked whether I wanted Anderson or XT90 connectors, the two options he has. I looked on the Adaptto website since I'm getting their Mini-E controller and noticed that they said their connectors are XT150. I showed this to Quentin, and he responded in 3 minutes and said... "Okay, I'll get these XT150's for you." Couldn't be more pleased....

I'm expecting him to ship out soon, so I'll let you know when it arrives. Definitely reach out to him though! He has rightfully earned the name "Battery Guy" in my email contacts list. I recommend him to everyone.

Til' then, happy holidays! ~~

 

[Rix]

Unless there's multiple battery building Quentin's...the Quentin that I'm talking about is:

ES member: Cryzymotor
http://www.ex-battery.com
His email is on the website...I'd post it but he'll probably get bot spam.

Thanks for clarifying. I didn't know Quentin was Cryzymotor, just might need to pick his brain about a pack as well.

 

[sllikskills]

HELLO E-S!

First - I'm sorry for the terribly long hiatus. Being that this is my first REAL build, I severely underestimated the amount of time it would take to allocate a skilled fabricator for the swingarm segment of this build. In total, it took me 3 months to find someone who was good enough and had a reasonable price, and another month for them to complete the project. I just received my bike frame back this past weekend and was stoked to post updates to E-S. Here is the work that was done.


The fabricator made incisions to the swingarm at the red arrows, widened the swingarm, and then re-welded it. Now the dropout width is 162mm and fits the 5403 very snug. The fabricator only charged me $100 for the work.

I have the wheel on the frame now, but this wasn't the original strategy - which was to remake the whole swingarm with reinforced dropouts. Now since the swingarm is widened, I have to focus on the dropout strength now. The frame is only about 15 pounds, and the rear wheel is about 40 pounds so I need some heavy duty reinforcement to ensure my safety. I ordered the custom steel torque arm made by a fellow E-S member dmwahl, here's his thread for the torque arm: https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=69073&p=1068652#p1068652

I also ordered a Crystalyte torque arm for the drive side, so I will have one on each side.

One last issue I have to face is that I mistakenly did not account for the space that would be needed for the derailleur hanger, as shown in the picture below. I've ordered the proper derailleur hanger, and my idea is to hopefully be able to mount it reverse (in front of the dropout instead of behind it) - we will see how this turns out. REGARDLESS! This bike should be complete within one week! I will be test running the bike from a performance standpoint, I will be sure to post videos. And when I ensure everything is working correctly, it will undergo the custom paintjob I mentioned earlier in the thread

 

[Rix]

Sweet, posted a pic of your Vector/Venom build, got some positive feed back on it. Apparently the most unique paint job currently on a Vector frame. What do you got planed for this?

 

[sllikskills]

Rix,

Awesome! I gotta check out the post. I'll be creating the Venom build thread in about a week! I've been working on the Adaptto controller issues I've been facing with it (I ran too much current through the Cromotor without switching out the wire housing to maintain a higher heat which messed up the controller somehow).

I've ordered the last few pieces to my Specialized build. I'm currently just truing up the wheels and preparing all the other parts for assembly. I want to put all the pieces together first and ensure that the bike works 100%. Once I know the bike rides great, I will then take it apart and run the frame through the Black/Gold paint job, and re-assemble. This bike will be complete within one week!

Here are some photos of the handlebar setup, as well as the controller and battery placement. Once again, I must thank Quentin for the wonderful work in the battery department. It's hard to see the controller in the photo, but it is clamped right above the center seat tube of the frame.

 

[sllikskills]

Hello

Got some stuff in the mail today.

I didn't get my primary torque arm from dmwahl yet, it should be arriving Monday. But I did get my secondary torque arm today - the Crystalyte one. I must say, I cracked up so hard when I got this in the mail - I had no idea what it was until I finally unwrapped everything. The reviews said it was huge, 3 to 4 x larger than a regular torque arm...I thought they meant in width. Turns out...they meant in total dimensions!! Look at this thing in the picture - I thought it was a practical joke at first:



I haven't quite figured out how this will fit yet, but man this thing is so big. With dmwahl's custom torque arm on the other side, I should be pretty set as far as the dropout strength goes :lol:

P.S. - Yes... that is a secret bookshelf room in the background of the picture. I'm a crafty guy - hence, the ebikes lol

 

[Rix]

Hello

Got some stuff in the mail today.

I didn't get my primary torque arm from dmwahl yet, it should be arriving Monday. But I did get my secondary torque arm today - the Crystalyte one. I must say, I cracked up so hard when I got this in the mail - I had no idea what it was until I finally unwrapped everything. The reviews said it was huge, 3 to 4 x larger than a regular torque arm...I thought they meant in width. Turns out...they meant in total dimensions!! Look at this thing in the picture - I thought it was a practical joke at first:



I haven't quite figured out how this will fit yet, but man this thing is so big. With dmwahl's custom torque arm on the other side, I should be pretty set as far as the dropout strength goes :lol:

P.S. - Yes... that is a secret bookshelf room in the background of the picture. I'm a crafty guy - hence, the ebikes lol

That is one serious torque arm ,the axle will snap before that thing fails. Very nice.

 

[sllikskills]

Hey,

Yeah Rix - the total length of both metal pieces are longer than my forearm hahaha

I finished truing the rear wheel (true enough for now) and added the Hutchinson. Here's how the bike looks so far - looks real clean!





Also noticed the ridiculously minimal clearance between two areas between the swingarm and the wheel - check the photo below



The wheel is not fully inflated so hopefully it will not be in contact with the rear shock (I don't think they will touch). The second circle is not a problem at all - I'm just amazed at how perfect the widened swingarm fits the x5403. Match out of heaven!

As soon as the front wheel is finished and the primary torque arm is installed, I will assemble everything together and get the wheel spinning!!!!! I'll make sure to start making some videos when that happens. This bike is gonna be a torque ninja 8) .

 

[Rix]

That is close, but even if you got 1mm of clearance, that's clearance. One of the tires I ran on my Fighter was way to wide for the chain line, even with the freewheel extender. I found a rough piece of cement block, lift the wheel slightly off the ground with a make shift 2x4 stand from the left side, and held the side of tire against the block and hit the throttle. shaved about 3mm off the side in about 3 mm WOT, and man was it burnt rubber and smoke. But it worked.

 

[kiwiev]

That is close, but even if you got 1mm of clearance, that's clearance. One of the tires I ran on my Fighter was way to wide for the chain line, even with the freewheel extender. I found a rough piece of cement block, lift the wheel slightly off the ground with a make shift 2x4 stand from the left side, and held the side of tire against the block and hit the throttle. shaved about 3mm off the side in about 3 mm WOT, and man was it burnt rubber and smoke. But it worked.

Rix you should have made a video it would have been a hoot
Nice build btw

Cheers Kiwi

 

[Rix]

That is close, but even if you got 1mm of clearance, that's clearance. One of the tires I ran on my Fighter was way to wide for the chain line, even with the freewheel extender. I found a rough piece of cement block, lift the wheel slightly off the ground with a make shift 2x4 stand from the left side, and held the side of tire against the block and hit the throttle. shaved about 3mm off the side in about 3 mm WOT, and man was it burnt rubber and smoke. But it worked.

Rix you should have made a video it would have been a hoot
Nice build btw

Cheers Kiwi

Yah, and I would have been known as Rix the retard on ES :lol: . I forgot to add, use your front brake if you attempt this.

 

[DasDouble]

subscribed. Im also building my own Vector bike - 4kW

 

[sllikskills]

subscribed. Im also building my own Vector bike - 4kW

Thanks DasDouble - will be keeping an eye on your build -

I received dmwahl's torque arm today and I can definitely vouch for the quality of the metal. The package was quite heavy and I had no idea it was the torque arm til I opened it.

It aligns perfectly with the disc brake bolts. I just need to find larger bolts now! Time to run to Home Depot.
The torque arm comes in a mm smaller than the standard flat axle size, so filing will be needed - but that is an advantage in my perspective because you can make it fit to exactness.

The only issue I have is that now with the heavy duty torque arm in place, there is about a mm of threading on the axle nut that doesn't get screwed on. You can see that in the pictures. As a solution for this, I might put some threadlock loctite on the axle to make sure the nut stays on. Any suggestions guys?

 

[DasDouble]

Are you shure this frame will do his job? It doesn´t looks so strong if you ask me.. Maybe my eyes are cheeting on me I dunno^^

 

[sllikskills]

Are you shure this frame will do his job? It doesn´t looks so strong if you ask me.. Maybe my eyes are cheeting on me I dunno^^

It's definitely not as strong as the Vector frame that I have, but it's also not running as much power. This build is running a 60V 60A battery on the Mini-E Adaptto. Maybe 35-40mph max. The only thing that I'm worrying about is the weight of the motor, being the x5403. Which is why I have two torque arms on the dropouts. Only one way to find out if it holds up!! Most people would say the engineering of the vector frame is MORE than sturdy enough, so I'm hoping this frame will be just right.

Worse comes to worse, these bike parts are very conveniently convertible onto any frame.

 

[sllikskills]

Hey guys,

not too much to update visually, but I have connected the battery and adaptto together to test connection and the screen turned on as expected. I've installed the montague handlebar extender, as well as the torque arms. While doing this process , I noticed a small but very important detail if you plan to use a Specialized Epic frame as well in your build: the rear disc brake rotor will only take 160mm, not 180mm nor 203mm. Don't make the same mistake I made. Now I have a spare 180mm rotor that I cannot use, and I just reordered a 160mm rotor of the same design, as well as the mounting bracket for it. Waste of money!!

Check out this latest photo for progression. Front wheel will be done most likely tomorrow, and then I can finally test to see if the motor spins!

I apologize for the severe amount of clutter in this room.

 

[Rix]

Hey guys,

not too much to update visually, but I have connected the battery and adaptto together to test connection and the screen turned on as expected. I've installed the montague handlebar extender, as well as the torque arms. While doing this process , I noticed a small but very important detail if you plan to use a Specialized Epic frame as well in your build: the rear disc brake rotor will only take 160mm, not 180mm nor 203mm. Don't make the same mistake I made. Now I have a spare 180mm rotor that I cannot use, and I just reordered a 160mm rotor of the same design, as well as the mounting bracket for it. Waste of money!!

Check out this latest photo for progression. Front wheel will be done most likely tomorrow, and then I can finally test to see if the motor spins!

I apologize for the severe amount of clutter in this room.

You my friend, are truly and Ebike enthusiast!