New cell - Samsung INR18650-32E

riba2233

riba2233

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Just saw this at nkon website, it should be similar to panasonic BE and LG MH1. It's 3200 mah and 10 A max. continuous.

Does anyone have some other info, like what chemistry it is (probably NCA?), maybe datasheet? Or even better, some test data :D

http://eu.nkon.nl/rechargeable/18650-size/samsung-inr18650-32e.html
 
Yeah wow.
Googleing "Samsung INR18650-32E" does bring up a bunch of links
Spec PDF here. Attached to this post for super convenience.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5ce5vDCG1uybHJ0UU1WVVhzYUE/edit


It looks like this battery has been in the planing for over a year looking at this slide shot.
http://www.topsecretev.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/samsung_ebike_battery_cell-e1417051951853.jpg
http://www.topsecretev.com/tag/samsung-inr18650-32e-li-ion-cell/

Listed on eva, which I think is a preferred chinese supplier choice for some guys on es I believe..
http://www.evvatech.com/sdp/1015379/4/pd-4967686/12845149-2629022/10A_high_drain_Samsung_INR18650-32E_3200mAh_batte.html
 

Attachments

  • INR18650-32E.pdf
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em3ev likes to use samsung cells in their batteries. I wonder if they'll offer the 32E soon.

Looks like:
2C continuous
Super slow charge rate ( 0.3C )
223whrs/kg 11.6 whrs ( 3.6v nominal, assuming ~1C load ) / 0.05

A pack of those would be sweet. The best you can get for medium-discharge 18650's. Usually, 18650's within this whrs/kg range are just 1C ( or sadly, lower ) cells.

Downside: 300 cycles to 70% capacity. This would be at full cycling though, i believe.
Upside: safety looks very good.
 
Wait.. nominal capacity at 1C is stated to be 3000mah, so that's more like a 200whrs/kg battery if you load it at 1C continuous. That would make it a 180whrs/kg battery in reality ( thanks, voltage sag ) if you did 2C continuous.

Probably best to use these cells if you are looking for 1-1.5C with minimal voltage sag, long life, and and stout performance. ( always cut the C rate of a battery into 1/4-1/3rd of what it's rated for, for optimal use )
 
neptronix said:
Downside: 300 cycles to 70% capacity. This would be at full cycling though, i believe.
Click to expand...
The PDF spec says 500cycles at 70% and 300cycles at 70%, I dont know what gives there.
The 29E is 500cycles at 80%.
 
Different cycle figures for different C rates.

..another reason why i say, pamper these 18650 cells.
I dunno, short life aside, it's a cool cell. I'd run it at 90% SOC to extend it's life and discharge it on 1-1.5C. Prolly get 500+ cycles doing that. If you have a big pack, each cycle can go pretty far.
 
You must read carefully! :)

500 cycles is at 1C, 300 cycles is at 2C.

Samsung 29E is declared at 500 cycles at 1C dow to 70%, not 80%. So they are basically the same, performance wise (both are 2C continuous, and 3C peak).

Cycle life wont be a problem, if we prove ourselves that it's NCA chemistry. Same goes for LG mh1. But Samsung seems to be the cheapest one (panasonic be and lg mh1 are more expensive), so if you don't need a crazy discharge current, it's a way to go!
 
No its NCA
And i have seen discharge test from 4.200 to 3.0V @ 1C the MH1 have 10.3Wh
1 cell is 49gramm that is 210wh/kg useable energy @ 1C :mrgreen:
 
Nope, not even close. This one is 32A, and a weak 4.35 V model, and the new cell is 32E.
It's a big difference in every aspect!

Now, let's see a first test of 32E:

http://www.dampfakkus.de/akkutest.php?id=570

http://www.dampfakkus.de/highamps/570-at%2010A.png

It's not as good at 10 A as Panasonic BE and Lg MH1 unfortunately.
It also says 34 mohm, which is not bad if it's true.
 
whrs/kg is quite good though.. what cells beat it, in terms of both watt hours/kg and discharge?

This cell looks horrible at 3C, just like the NCR18650BD. Definetely would NOT want to use it at that rate, unless you are okay with throwing away ~15% of your energy and seeing 3.2-3.3v nominal from a pack that can do 3.6v nominal.
 
What do you guys think about the LG INR18650MJ1 - 3500mAh. Its rated at 10A continous havent found actual test so far but would be a great cell for ebikes if the internal resistance isnt to high.
 
10A continuous? no way. I saw one site that rated it as 0.5C continuous.

http://powercartel.com/2015/02/test-results-for-lg-inr18650-mj1-3500mah-18650-li-ion-battery/

Look at the 1C discharge. Drops from about 3.7-3.6v nominal down to 3.3v. That's around 10% of energy wasted to heat on just 1C. So imagine having a 48v 20AH pack that sags from 48v to 44.1v when hit with a 20 amp load. Pretty pathetic. Now, if you had a 48v 40ah pack, that voltage sag would be cut in half, and you'd be running the bike at 20A still.. it would sag to 46.05v.. that's still pretty bad.. the only way to see a 1 volt drop maximum on 20 amps would be to have a 60AH pack.. get the idea? :lol:

This is an approximately 250whrs/kg cell though. So if you wanted to build something like a >100 mile range pack, it'd still rock. Very high energy capacity per weight. Very low discharge. Something slanted towards higher discharge is more useful for our bikes..
 
neptronix said:
10A continuous? no way. I saw one site that rated it as 0.5C continuous.

http://powercartel.com/2015/02/test-results-for-lg-inr18650-mj1-3500mah-18650-li-ion-battery/

Look at the 1C discharge. Drops from about 3.7-3.6v nominal down to 3.3v. That's around 10% of energy wasted to heat on just 1C. So imagine having a 48v 20AH pack that sags from 48v to 44.1v when hit with a 20 amp load. Pretty pathetic.

This is an approximately 250whrs/kg cell though. So if you wanted to build something like a >100 mile range pack, it'd still rock. Very high energy capacity per weight. Very low discharge. Something slanted towards higher discharge is more useful for our bikes..
Click to expand...
I just saw them on a german shop where they rate them as 10A but youre right they sag to much to be 10A continous.
 
10 continuous is probably the point where, if you run them continuously at that, they'd just barely avoid catching fire, blowing smoke, melting, etc.

It's kinda like driving your car at 6,000rpm continuously on the highway. You can probably get away with doing it in ideal conditions.. and you're little 4 cylinder motor will give great throttle response.. just don't expect good fuel economy, and don't expect your engine to last long.

A realistic continuous use case for any battery tends to be the 1/4th rule: take the maximum continuous discharge rating and cut it into a fourth to get low voltage sag, good battery efficiency ( doesn't waste energy to heat ), and long cell life.

That's why i prefer cells that are rated far higher than what i use them at. IE, i use 20C hobbyking lipo at about 5C max.
 
LG mh1 and panasonic BE are the best compromise between capacity and performance, if you don't mind the price. If you do, you can have panasonic Pf or samsung 29E, same performance, but very low price. If performance matters, then you are left with samsung 25R, also pretty cheap.

I'm very excited about this 3500 mah lg cell, looks good at 1c :D
 
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