New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)

[Bazaki]

Same setup as spacey, 66v sensorless 12fet lyen controller, the startup is Fine, but I dont like the timing error at 40kmh, I will install some hall sensors and use the 18 fet sensored controller

 

[Green Machine]

Yep i am getting the same clunking at 40kmh....its extremely annoying problem.

I am running a lyen 12 fet extreme controller with a 50 amp continuous output battery.

At 72 volts i notice the problem is very pronounced....it feels like something is about to break within the motor...at 48 volts it is not so bad.

Am i doing damage to the motor at all when i hear this clunking?

SO the only way to get around this is change to hall sensors? I bought a motor without sensors...

By the way if i give too much throttle at start up i will get the motor to freeze up at start up....but in most situations as others have stated i do not get the problem at start up.

 

[wojtek]

i am still waiting for the lyen controller.
good thing would be to let Edward know about this problem - i am sure he could sort it out and introduce a new improved controller. He is a smart guy!

Yep i am getting the same clunking at 40kmh....its extremely annoying problem.

I am running a lyen 12 fet extreme controller with a 50 amp continuous output battery.

At 72 volts i notice the problem is very pronounced....it feels like something is about to break within the motor...at 48 volts it is not so bad.

Am i doing damage to the motor at all when i hear this clunking?

SO the only way to get around this is change to hall sensors? I bought a motor without sensors...

By the way if i give too much throttle at start up i will get the motor to freeze up at start up....but in most situations as others have stated i do not get the problem at start up.

 

[Green Machine]

Make sure you ordered the programming cable from lyen if you want any chance of fixing problem. It seems this only may be when running the sensorless at high amps using the extreme controller. What may fix it is some kind of amperage limit.

I am in communication with lyen.

I am wondering if this clunking can damage the motor? Does anyone know?

No harm no foul...i am ok as long as i am not damaging anything...

 

[wojtek]

Just a quick question, how does the regen works? i will be using similar setup [lyen controller with regenerative braking enable/disable jumper]

But in practise, is the regen function linked with the ebrake? meaning that each time i brake, the regen turns on?

Does it help with braking? Reducing stopping distance?

 

[Green Machine]

Glad you asked...

Regen with the lyen controller is a real nicety...ideally you should use it in addition to rear disk brake...but i was not able to adapt my hydraulic disc brakes so had to use Avid bb mechanical disk brakes which hooked up fine. There are clearance issues working the disc brake around that giant hub motor.

You need special brake lever that hooks right to the controller...the brake handle also has a lead going to the disk brake....when you first touch the brake the regen cuts in...its either on or off...no variable...its enough to where you feel it and it slows the bike. It is really really nice on long downhills where you just ride with the regen on to keep your speed down and pour juice into your battery....if you need a fast emergency stop the regen isnt very effective...thats why i use both regen and disc brake on the rear. SImply when i first press on the handle the regen kicks in...go in a little more on the brake lever and you start to feel the disc brake to kick in...i highly recommend this type of set up...i can still lock the rear wheel with the disc brake at speed...fun for scaring pedestrians out of my way.

The level of regen is set in the controller...but comes with maximum regen activated from the factory which is ideal for me....it slows the bike like a boat if that makes sense...you just barely feel it kicking in. It slows the bike gradually.

Its a nice efficient slow down that does not heat up your rotors and throws juice into your battery...someone should be charging $250 for just this feature. :wink: Yeah i really think its worth 250 given what hydraulic disc brakes cost. Variable regen would be tits...something we will probably see in a few years...it would be ideal if we could go without the disc brake on the rear.

Also i cant stress enough...if your going to run a lot of amps through this stuff..please spend the money and have a top of the line hydraulic brake in front. Dont skimp on brakes...and really try to get a rear disc brake working..dont cut corners on braking. Personally i am running a carbon elixer avid brake up front and swear up and down by it....really feel big difference when running on same bike as an avid mechanical bb.....however....damn brake cost me more than the crystalite motor. Thanks china!

 

[wojtek]

thanks
so are you referring to the standard ebrake? [the ebrake that is for cutting off the power each time the brake level is activated?]

I want to use it in my velomobile- i have only 2x70mm SA brakes [tried to upgrade to 90mm but not possible ]

I guess the regen is also hard on dropouts.. just posted few pics of them for my other project here: http://www.endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25839&start=30

If anyone has a spare torque arm plate with a hole for Clyte HS motor, i would be very interested...

Glad you asked...

Regen with the lyen controller is a real nicety...ideally you should use it in addition to rear disk brake...but i was not able to adapt my hydraulic disc brakes so had to use Avid bb mechanical disk brakes which hooked up fine. There are clearance issues working the disc brake around that giant hub motor.

You need special brake lever that hooks right to the controller...the brake handle also has a lead going to the disk brake....when you first touch the brake the regen cuts in...its either on or off...no variable...its enough to where you feel it and it slows the bike. It is really really nice on long downhills where you just ride with the regen on to keep your speed down and pour juice into your battery....if you need a fast emergency stop the regen isnt very effective...thats why i use both regen and disc brake on the rear. SImply when i first press on the handle the regen kicks in...go in a little more on the brake lever and you start to feel the disc brake to kick in...i highly recommend this type of set up...i can still lock the rear wheel with the disc brake at speed...fun for scaring pedestrians out of my way.

The level of regen is set in the controller...but comes with maximum regen activated from the factory which is ideal for me....it slows the bike like a boat if that makes sense...you just barely feel it kicking in. It slows the bike gradually.

Its a nice efficient slow down that does not heat up your rotors and throws juice into your battery...someone should be charging $250 for just this feature. :wink: Yeah i really think its worth 250 given what hydraulic disc brakes cost. Variable regen would be tits...something we will probably see in a few years...it would be ideal if we could go without the disc brake on the rear.

Also i cant stress enough...if your going to run a lot of amps through this stuff..please spend the money and have a top of the line hydraulic brake in front. Dont skimp on brakes...and really try to get a rear disc brake working..dont cut corners on braking. Personally i am running a carbon elixer avid brake up front and swear up and down by it....however....damn brake cost me more than the crystalite motor. Thanks china!

 

[Green Machine]

I am using a wuxing brake lever...that has two cables...one going to the controller, the other a cable running to the brake. ITs a dedicated ebike lever. Ugly but effective...if you want i will post a pic.

When you first squeeze it, it activates the regen...when you squeeze it further...it goes to the mechanical disc brake.

Sorry i am so unclear....i get cloudy on sunday mornings and as everyone knows i do not have engineer type big brain.... like one out of two posters seems to have around here.

 

[Hyena]

Here are the three spoke hole size that we have seen in HS/HT motor:
3.12mm for 13g spokes
4.25mm for 12g spokes
4.47mm no sure what's going with the workers in china?%@#

Ummmm, that last measurement is in the screw hole for the side cover :lol:

Its a nice efficient slow down that does not heat up your rotors and throws juice into your battery...someone should be charging $250 for just this feature. :wink: Yeah i really think its worth 250 given what hydraulic disc brakes cost

Heh you've never used regen before have you ? What you're describing is standard regen that most controllers have, even some $20 ones! It's not some unique or special feature of this controller. It's definitely handy for casually slowing down or holding you back on steep hills but it's no substitute for even basic rear v brakes. Variable and stronger regen however is something we're all looking forward to.

 

[el_bassboi_sv]

Yeah i really think its worth 250 given what hydraulic disc brakes cost.

Here's a deal for anyone interested...

Avid Juicy 3 Full Kit (disc, lever, caliper combo) :wink:
http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/Models.aspx?ModelID=54691

 

[itselectric]

Here are the three spoke hole size that we have seen in HS/HT motor:
3.12mm for 13g spokes
4.25mm for 12g spokes
4.47mm no sure what's going with the workers in china?%@#

Ummmm, that last measurement is in the screw hole for the side cover :lol:

Hyena, good eyes, someday, i feel like losing my mind in this business, yes lol

 

[curious]

How does HT/HS series compare to 9c and x5 in terms of rolling resistance ? Closer to 9c or x5 ?

 

[Andje]

you mean the cogging effect felt when pedaling without powering the motor? It is close to 9c in my experience; just a little bit too much resistance to want to pedal it.

 

[DimGr]

Glad you asked...

Regen with the lyen controller is a real nicety...ideally you should use it in addition to rear disk brake...but i was not able to adapt my hydraulic disc brakes so had to use Avid bb mechanical disk brakes which hooked up fine. There are clearance issues working the disc brake around that giant hub motor.

You need special brake lever that hooks right to the controller...the brake handle also has a lead going to the disk brake....when you first touch the brake the regen cuts in...its either on or off...no variable...its enough to where you feel it and it slows the bike. It is really really nice on long downhills where you just ride with the regen on to keep your speed down and pour juice into your battery....if you need a fast emergency stop the regen isnt very effective...thats why i use both regen and disc brake on the rear. SImply when i first press on the handle the regen kicks in...go in a little more on the brake lever and you start to feel the disc brake to kick in...i highly recommend this type of set up...i can still lock the rear wheel with the disc brake at speed...fun for scaring pedestrians out of my way.

The level of regen is set in the controller...but comes with maximum regen activated from the factory which is ideal for me....it slows the bike like a boat if that makes sense...you just barely feel it kicking in. It slows the bike gradually.

Its a nice efficient slow down that does not heat up your rotors and throws juice into your battery...someone should be charging $250 for just this feature. :wink: Yeah i really think its worth 250 given what hydraulic disc brakes cost. Variable regen would be tits...something we will probably see in a few years...it would be ideal if we could go without the disc brake on the rear.

Also i cant stress enough...if your going to run a lot of amps through this stuff..please spend the money and have a top of the line hydraulic brake in front. Dont skimp on brakes...and really try to get a rear disc brake working..dont cut corners on braking. Personally i am running a carbon elixer avid brake up front and swear up and down by it....really feel big difference when running on same bike as an avid mechanical bb.....however....damn brake cost me more than the crystalite motor. Thanks china!

Hey Green,
can you post some sample photos with your brake setup?
I'm curious to see how this is working..

 

[theRealFury]

How does HT/HS series compare to 9c and x5 in terms of rolling resistance ? Closer to 9c or x5 ?

Well i have no experience with the 9c or x5 but all i can say is that i seldom even notice the drag unless im pedaling fast. My old 250w Bafang BPM motor had more drag than this DD and it was supposed to have a freewheel with it. I can quite happily pedal in the 10-13mph range without feeling any drag or strain on my legs. My battery hit LVC 6 miles from home last week (forgot to charge it) and i had no problem cycling home without power. the only time i could really feel the drag was tacking a steep hill without power.

 

[Bazaki]

There is less resistance than with an X5 hub, and another good thing is there is no resonance that I have felt with the HS and HT version, the X5 has a resonance at 8 km/h and arround 20km/h. It can be annoying if you bike a steep hill at low speeds.

 

[hochdorf]

What motor is quieter at speed 25 km/h 408 or HT?

 

[Doctorbass]

There is less resistance than with an X5 hub, and another good thing is there is no resonance that I have felt with the HS and HT version, the X5 has a resonance at 8 km/h and arround 20km/h. It can be annoying if you bike a steep hill at low speeds.

The resonance speed depend not on the motor itself but on the wheel diameter you installed on it..

Yhe HS and HT should have more resonance because of the cogging they have straight magnetic tooth compare to the X5 that have angled magnetic tooth to smooth the cogging.

Doc

 

[liveforphysics]

There is less resistance than with an X5 hub, and another good thing is there is no resonance that I have felt with the HS and HT version, the X5 has a resonance at 8 km/h and arround 20km/h. It can be annoying if you bike a steep hill at low speeds.

The resonance speed depend not on the motor itself but on the wheel diameter you installed on it..

Yhe HS and HT should have more resonance because of the cogging they have straight magnetic tooth compare to the X5 that have angled magnetic tooth to smooth the cogging.

Doc

Almost all cogging loss sums to zero. But iron losses are real and substantial, and would be lower on the motor with less iron.

 

[nicobie]

Speaking of resonance...

I finally got my ht35 mounted and tried it out yesterday. It's so loud it's embarrassing! it grumbles and howls from 0 to 10 mph then its ok until about 20 mph but quiet faster than 23 mph. My bmc v2 was MUCH quieter. I'm pretty sure It's wired right as it's pulling the right amount of amps and runs real strong. Fastest I've had it was 35 mph but it would have gone alot faster if the damn phase wires hadn't shorted out after only 1.5 miles.

Screw it, Maybe I'll take it apart next week. With the luck I've had lately, I probably cooked the new controller too :x

 

[Thud]

Nick,
would you like Luke & Myself to give it some "special attention"? will defo be lighter!

OT: Are these mostly getting Imported as sensorless motors?

 

[Bazaki]

Today I installed the hall sensors inside Ht, but how to get these 5 wires outside ?
There is no space left in Shaft for other wires then the 3 fase wires.

 

[theRealFury]

The resonance speed depend not on the motor itself but on the wheel diameter you installed on it..

Yhe HS and HT should have more resonance because of the cogging they have straight magnetic tooth compare to the X5 that have angled magnetic tooth to smooth the cogging.

Doc

Well my HS3540 does not make any resonating sound, in fact i have to struggle to hear any operating noise on my motor. Maybe its the meger 20amps at 36v that i am currently running it on but either way, its practically silent, my freewheel makes more noise to be honest.

Speaking of resonance...

I finally got my ht35 mounted and tried it out yesterday. It's so loud it's embarrassing! it grumbles and howls from 0 to 10 mph then its ok until about 20 mph but quiet faster than 23 mph. My bmc v2 was MUCH quieter. I'm pretty sure It's wired right as it's pulling the right amount of amps and runs real strong. Fastest I've had it was 35 mph but it would have gone alot faster if the damn phase wires hadn't shorted out after only 1.5 miles.

Screw it, Maybe I'll take it apart next week. With the luck I've had lately, I probably cooked the new controller too :x

Sorry to hear you had bad luck with your phase wires... what voltage and current were you running? Definately sounds like something was not right, i honestly can hardly hear my motor at all.

Nick,
would you like Luke & Myself to give it some "special attention"? will defo be lighter!

OT: Are these mostly getting Imported as sensorless motors?

Yes the standard is to supply the sensorless model at the moment from crystalyte europe at least, i saw it wrote on ES somewhere that they will sell a sensored version in future but at the moment its a custom batch order for sensored ones i believe.

 

[Hyena]

I finally got my ht35 mounted and tried it out yesterday. It's so loud it's embarrassing! ...would have gone alot faster if the damn phase wires hadn't shorted out after only 1.5 miles

Something definitely sounds wrong there. Was it the 13ga wires you melted ? I've put a solid 5kw through stock 9C phase wires which are alot smaller and not melted them so it sounds like you had the controller wired wrong somehow.

 

[Andje]

i hit 100km/h today on one of the hs30's at 100v 65amps. gopro footage to come.