Methods, Finally you got good quality HS35 and I am happy for you. I wanna get HS35 however I desire want for the beast motor like 5403-04. I probably will bring 2 xlyte 5403 and 5404 motors to your place to inspect if any problem or not. If it okay with you.
New Crystalyte Motor series (HT35 / HS35 and HT24 / HS24)
- Thread starter vodka
- Start date
Jozzer
100 kW
Beauty
Very clean build.
Very clean build.
methods
1 GW
chroot said:
What are these 54XX motors? Do you have a link? They must weight a ton... even these HS motors weigh quite a bit!
-methods
wojtek
100 kW
hi
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24805&p=371433&hilit=crystalyte+5404#p371433
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25961&p=376127&hilit=crystalyte+5404#p376127
you wont find them on crystalyte website.
They weigh 11kg, lighter than X5 series.
But they are 150mm wide axle and designed for high powered application. Not really direct competition for HS / HT series...
It would be great for ES members if reputable dealers worldwide offer them locally though
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=24805&p=371433&hilit=crystalyte+5404#p371433
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=25961&p=376127&hilit=crystalyte+5404#p376127
you wont find them on crystalyte website.
They weigh 11kg, lighter than X5 series.
But they are 150mm wide axle and designed for high powered application. Not really direct competition for HS / HT series...
It would be great for ES members if reputable dealers worldwide offer them locally though
methods said:
wojtek
100 kW
actually it is wrong thread, but once we are off topic with 5404, would any of our GURUs here know whether HONEYWELL 43F sensor would be the best for high V applications? Kenny realized that the problems with some burn-outs were due to the sensors not up for anything with higer volage and honeywell suggested he would use HONEYWELL 43F. But Kenny asked us to confirm if this would work well for over 72V / advise if there are any better choices..
methods
1 GW
That does not make any sense to me. Halls should be totally isolated from phase voltage..... (unless they are mechanically shorted 
)
If they are blowing due to induced noise then that can be handled with some inline resistance and a bypass cap like you see on the 9C boards. I would love to see the original information regarding this voltage issue. I have certainly seen a lot of hall failures with Crystalyte motors (and not a single one with 9C motors...) but most of the failures were mechanical in nature... i.e. the wire desoldering from the hall leg.
-methods
)If they are blowing due to induced noise then that can be handled with some inline resistance and a bypass cap like you see on the 9C boards. I would love to see the original information regarding this voltage issue. I have certainly seen a lot of hall failures with Crystalyte motors (and not a single one with 9C motors...) but most of the failures were mechanical in nature... i.e. the wire desoldering from the hall leg.
-methods
wojtek
100 kW
methods said:That does not make any sense to me. Halls should be totally isolated from phase voltage..... (unless they are mechanically shorted
If they are blowing due to induced noise then that can be handled with some inline resistance and a bypass cap like you see on the 9C boards. I would love to see the original information regarding this voltage issue. I have certainly seen a lot of hall failures with Crystalyte motors (and not a single one with 9C motors...) but most of the failures were mechanical in nature... i.e. the wire desoldering from the hall leg.
-methods
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Crystalyte <crystalyte@yahoo.cn> wrote:
> Hi Wojtek,
> I have found the problem why the HT and HS sensor not reliable. We are using
> the HONEYWELL 41F sensor. It is just available for 48V system.
> If any client take the motor with 72V then the hall effect sensor will be
> cook.
>
> HONEYWELL SS40 sensors ：
> We do check the SS40 may not good for bicycle motor.
> - The ss40 design for small slow speed motor.
> - Also it is design for lower voltage system. The 72V or more voltage system
> will brunt the sensor as well.
> Please check on your side as well.
>
> HONEYWELL 43F sensors :
> HONEYWELL suggest we take the 43F sensor for 72V or higher voltage motor
> system in biicycle.
> What do you thik?
>
> It is the reason for me asking about what about the motor for what voltage
> in last mail.
> By the way, for the high voltage motor which most take for 72V or more. We
> will make the 5400 motor with deep slot on the silicon sheet. So it must
> reliable.
> Feel free mail me for more information.
bigmoose
1 MW
Here is a comparison from the data sheets I could find.
SS41F -40 to 125 deg C 4.5 to 24 Volts 45 gauss typ operate -45 gauss typ release 0.5usRise 0.2usFall
SS40A -40 to 125 deg C 4.5 to 24 Volts 45 gauss typ operate -45 gauss typ release 0.5usRise 0.2usFall
SS43 cannot find
SS41F -40 to 125 deg C 4.5 to 24 Volts 45 gauss typ operate -45 gauss typ release 0.5usRise 0.2usFall
SS40A -40 to 125 deg C 4.5 to 24 Volts 45 gauss typ operate -45 gauss typ release 0.5usRise 0.2usFall
SS43 cannot find
wojtek
100 kW
bigmoose said:
thanks a lot for this. much appreciated.
have you found any with up to 132v or more by any chance?
methods
1 GW
I retract my statement that Kenny has "solved" the wire cutting issue. The plastic clam shell still has the "mouse hole" which could allow the wires to be cut by the spring in the seal if they were yanked on. I will be performing a modification on every hub motor I have to ensure there is 0% chance of failure.
It is just amazing to me... This problem is SO SIMPLE, so easy to avoid.... Ken shared the solution with Kenny months ago... yet the latest shipment still comes with the potential problem.
To recap for those who did not follow:
1) Right where the wire exits the hub there is a rubber seal with a steel spring inside
2) There is a plastic part pushed up against this seal - its purpose is to route the wire 90 degrees away from the wire.
3) This plastic part SHOULD hold the wires down below the level of the spinning seal
4) BUT - there is a little "mouse hole" door cut in the plastic part that allow the wire to come right into contact with the spinning seal
5) Ken posted the solution which is to simply rotate the plastic part so that a section with "no mouse-hole" is over the wire, then cut a new notch for the wire to exit at 90 degrees
Wow.... it just amazes me. Do people just not want to make money?
-methods
The mouse hole
View attachment 1
The cover with the washer removed. In the X5 design there was a sleeve that went down into this area to create positive protection.
It is just amazing to me... This problem is SO SIMPLE, so easy to avoid.... Ken shared the solution with Kenny months ago... yet the latest shipment still comes with the potential problem.
To recap for those who did not follow:
1) Right where the wire exits the hub there is a rubber seal with a steel spring inside
2) There is a plastic part pushed up against this seal - its purpose is to route the wire 90 degrees away from the wire.
3) This plastic part SHOULD hold the wires down below the level of the spinning seal
4) BUT - there is a little "mouse hole" door cut in the plastic part that allow the wire to come right into contact with the spinning seal
5) Ken posted the solution which is to simply rotate the plastic part so that a section with "no mouse-hole" is over the wire, then cut a new notch for the wire to exit at 90 degrees
Wow.... it just amazes me. Do people just not want to make money?
-methods
The mouse hole
View attachment 1
The cover with the washer removed. In the X5 design there was a sleeve that went down into this area to create positive protection.
methods
1 GW
wojtek said:
Bro - nonsense.
The hall sensors only see 5V from the regulator. I think Mooses point was that all those parts are the same... it is not voltage blowing the halls. Maybe temperature, maybe sensitivity to noise... I think there must have been something "lost in translation" between you and Kenny
Perhaps folks running higher voltages are seeing higher temperatures????
-methods
markcycle
10 kW
wojtek said:methods said:That does not make any sense to me. Halls should be totally isolated from phase voltage..... (unless they are mechanically shorted
If they are blowing due to induced noise then that can be handled with some inline resistance and a bypass cap like you see on the 9C boards. I would love to see the original information regarding this voltage issue. I have certainly seen a lot of hall failures with Crystalyte motors (and not a single one with 9C motors...) but most of the failures were mechanical in nature... i.e. the wire desoldering from the hall leg.
-methods
On Tue, Aug 16, 2011 at 3:31 PM, Crystalyte <crystalyte@yahoo.cn> wrote:
> Hi Wojtek,
> I have found the problem why the HT and HS sensor not reliable. We are using
> the HONEYWELL 41F sensor. It is just available for 48V system.
> If any client take the motor with 72V then the hall effect sensor will be
> cook.
>
> HONEYWELL SS40 sensors ：
> We do check the SS40 may not good for bicycle motor.
> - The ss40 design for small slow speed motor.
> - Also it is design for lower voltage system. The 72V or more voltage system
> will brunt the sensor as well.
> Please check on your side as well.
>
> HONEYWELL 43F sensors :
> HONEYWELL suggest we take the 43F sensor for 72V or higher voltage motor
> system in biicycle.
> What do you thik?
>
> It is the reason for me asking about what about the motor for what voltage
> in last mail.
> By the way, for the high voltage motor which most take for 72V or more. We
> will make the 5400 motor with deep slot on the silicon sheet. So it must
> reliable.
> Feel free mail me for more information.
Wow now theirs a story
I'm at a loss for words on this one
I have a very low failure rate on the Halls and it has nothing to do with phase voltage. We run speeds up to 2000 RPM at voltages over 160 volts. It's the same Hall sensor used in the X5
methods
1 GW
wojtek said:
Yea... says it right there:
"If any client take the motor with 72V then the hall effect sensor will be cook."
He means literally COOK..
So you are looking for a hall sensor that is rated for a higher TEMPERATURE, not Voltage :wink:
-methods
methods
1 GW
Just like Kenny rates his motors by "how fast they will go with 36V" he rates his hall sensors by "how high the voltage will go"
Lol.....
Read his story again with that in mind and it all makes sense. To him, 72V = hotter than 48V. Simple as that
-methods
Edit: P.S. This is the Holly Grail - we have been looking for hall sensors that are rated for 200C for years. There are none. The answer is to use "quality bran name" sensors that have margin and will withstand abuse.
Lol.....
Read his story again with that in mind and it all makes sense. To him, 72V = hotter than 48V. Simple as that
-methods
Edit: P.S. This is the Holly Grail - we have been looking for hall sensors that are rated for 200C for years. There are none. The answer is to use "quality bran name" sensors that have margin and will withstand abuse.
markcycle
10 kW
methods said:Just like Kenny rates his motors by "how fast they will go with 36V" he rates his hall sensors by "how high the voltage will go"
Lol.....
Read his story again with that in mind and it all makes sense. To him, 72V = hotter than 48V. Simple as that
-methods
Edit: P.S. This is the Holly Grail - we have been looking for hall sensors that are rated for 200C for years. There are none. The answer is to use "quality bran name" sensors that have margin and will withstand abuse.
Good interpretation
full-throttle
1 MW
methods
1 GW
The standard hall sensors in a 9C motor hold up to repeated blasts of 200C. I think Kenny just bought counterfeit sensors. Remember back when we started asking for IRFB4110 fets in the controllers and they showed up with FB4110 fets
Tell Kenny to buy some brand name halls and lets get on with this :wink:
-methods
Tell Kenny to buy some brand name halls and lets get on with this :wink:
-methods
liveforphysics
100 TW
So, if I run my hub at over 72v, the hall sensors will prepare meals for me?
methods said:The standard hall sensors in a 9C motor hold up to repeated blasts of 200C. I think Kenny just bought counterfeit sensors. Remember back when we started asking for IRFB4110 fets in the controllers and they showed up with FB4110 fets
Tell Kenny to buy some brand name halls and lets get on with this :wink:
On that subject, Crystalyte has also taken to using counterfeit Anderson connectors too. Have a close look at the Anderson housing, the authentic units have the letter 'A' on the front, while these ones don't, and at the back they have the small letters "GEP", while the real things say "Anderson Power". We've seen some real rubbish anderson knock-offs that melt apart at 20 amps before that are much more apparent fakes, but these ones require a real close inspection to tell the difference. I'll post some pictures of them later so people can see. But you'd be smart while redoing to the cable exit point to also replace the anderson phase connectors.
I think we may be back to shipping Kenny bona fide Anderson's and brand name hall sensor chips to use on the motor builds since the guy cannot be trusted to source the good stuff.
-Justin
methods
1 GW
I had an awesome ride tonight! For a test rig I put together an HS3540 in a 20" wheel on 66V 10Ah lipo with a 100A current limit.
This ugly bugger blasts off the line at 130A and will hold 40mph for 2.4kw
Really has impressive pull up to 20mph - definitely have to lean over the bars to keep it down, even with my pack centered. I cant wait to put this rig on my trike.... That thing is going to be a scab maker!
Fake andersons are no Joke.
-methods
This ugly bugger blasts off the line at 130A and will hold 40mph for 2.4kw
Really has impressive pull up to 20mph - definitely have to lean over the bars to keep it down, even with my pack centered. I cant wait to put this rig on my trike.... That thing is going to be a scab maker!
Fake andersons are no Joke.
-methods
Hyena
10 GW
Yep, you need to keep the wire following along the axle as long and straight as possible otherwise it'll chew straight through.methods said:
The other thing to watch is if you put a spacer under the disc rotor the heads of the bolts come very close to the wire exit as well so if the cable isn't tightly cable tied to the axle and then your chain stay or drop out it will get minced.
I noticed the fake andersons too. The housings are easily replaced but again it's all fiddling you shouldn't have to do when supposedly paying for a premium product. Sadly skiming on cents to the decimal place is too embedded into Chinese mass production culture...
I took a HS35 for a similar run to methods yesterday (26" wheel but same voltage and current) and found the phase wires got very hot. As usual anyone running this sort of power would be wise to upgrade the phase wires as close to the axle as possible. I couldn't fit 12ga teflon wires + halls back through the existing machined slot but running 10ga from outside the axle should keep you out of trouble (at which point their cheap halls will cook and the bamboo spacers will crisp up :lol: )
methods
1 GW
Hyena said:
No doubt bro. My spacer consists of two cut down disks so the clearance is tight between the fasteners and the wire bundle. I just pulled the wire around and zip-tied it. There is a solid mm of space.
If anyone wants to run 10awg all you have to do is remove the offending rubber dust seal
Pops right out with a pair of needle nose. You can leave it hanging on the cable and re-insert it later if you want
That is the first thing I did and it opens the channel right up. I then zip-tied the wire down inside the cavity.
At this point I could build an insert X5 style if I wanted too - but I think this will hold
The plastic clam-shell then pushes right up against the hub and covers the hole.
Waterproofing is a fantasy
I say let it in and let it out.-methods
groundproximity
1 W
methods said:
Hey methods,
would you mind to post a pic of your torque arm installation with this setup. I´m very interested if mine would take that enormous torque.
Thanks!
methods
1 GW
I can't post a picture now but my torque arms are nothing special. I rounded out my aluminum drops may X5's ago so I had to rebuild the drops from scratch. One of the drops is made from the mild steel drop of a Walmart bike that I cut off and drilled. The other captures the axle and is made up of an off the shelf laser cut stainless torque arm welded together with some mild steel.
So long as you have some sort of torque arm you will be fine. The axle will dig in and "set" and you should not have much to worry about. If on the other hand you are running heavy regen (like 2kw) you should be very careful. The super low impedance of lipo + high current limit + big motor means that you can get some very powerful rocking back and forth of the axle. This will round out any but the most stout of torque arms.
Keep it tight and apply torque in only one direction. That's my best advice.
-methods
So long as you have some sort of torque arm you will be fine. The axle will dig in and "set" and you should not have much to worry about. If on the other hand you are running heavy regen (like 2kw) you should be very careful. The super low impedance of lipo + high current limit + big motor means that you can get some very powerful rocking back and forth of the axle. This will round out any but the most stout of torque arms.
Keep it tight and apply torque in only one direction. That's my best advice.
-methods
