New Matra/TidalForce unveiled at Paris bike show
- Thread starter Toorbough ULL-Zeveigh
- Start date
mvadventure
1 kW
- Joined
- May 2, 2007
- Messages
- 419
Lacking the ability to see this thing in person I hesitate to comment much on the light. The one frame I saw that shows it doesn't do a good job.
Last week I had two lightweight Chinese 24 volt scooters delivered in anticipation of a boat trip next month. After assembly it was hard to notice the cowl with built in headlights was not only kinda ugly but I simply couldn't see how it could be effective. I had after all three lights on my ebike and figured come winter with dark coming earlier I'd need one more.
But with my normal curiosity I took one out the other night. Ugly or not, built in or not, it put out some serious light and even sent the turn signal indicator light out well into the visible range of any oncoming traffic. (which there will never be as I will never put this on a real road at night)
But on a serious level, were I able to actually see this thing in person and if it still looks like a bicycle and not a moped there is a very good chance I'd buy it. Especially in black and with fenders. They can keep the green one.
IMHO if folks want a moped, electric or gasoline, they will buy a moped and moped sales have never done all that well in the US. Same for scooters vs bicycles, each as their own following and uses. An electric bicycle that looks like a bicycle and performs like a moped however is a sales magnet. If I'm willing to put up with the hassle of insurance, licensing, big Bell helmets and staying off the sidewalk it would be really hard to go electric when gasoline power is so much less expensive.
The price of this bike competes with a well equipped 500 cc Kawasaki motorcycle.
Mike
Last week I had two lightweight Chinese 24 volt scooters delivered in anticipation of a boat trip next month. After assembly it was hard to notice the cowl with built in headlights was not only kinda ugly but I simply couldn't see how it could be effective. I had after all three lights on my ebike and figured come winter with dark coming earlier I'd need one more.
But with my normal curiosity I took one out the other night. Ugly or not, built in or not, it put out some serious light and even sent the turn signal indicator light out well into the visible range of any oncoming traffic. (which there will never be as I will never put this on a real road at night)
But on a serious level, were I able to actually see this thing in person and if it still looks like a bicycle and not a moped there is a very good chance I'd buy it. Especially in black and with fenders. They can keep the green one.
IMHO if folks want a moped, electric or gasoline, they will buy a moped and moped sales have never done all that well in the US. Same for scooters vs bicycles, each as their own following and uses. An electric bicycle that looks like a bicycle and performs like a moped however is a sales magnet. If I'm willing to put up with the hassle of insurance, licensing, big Bell helmets and staying off the sidewalk it would be really hard to go electric when gasoline power is so much less expensive.
The price of this bike competes with a well equipped 500 cc Kawasaki motorcycle.
Mike
Hi Mike
Some very good points there I do agree, the Head light, whilst ugly may perform very well, I also agree that the Electric Moped VS Gas doesnt stack up on price for a start and the insurance mot tax thing, being "out of the loop" but with the ability to hit the same speeds as legal mopeds is the attraction for me, ok its technically not legal but its still attractive.
If a car driver could do the same I.E drive a car around running it on pennies of power with no tax insurance or MOT (Annual Inspections)with little or no chance of ever being caught I think most would go for it.
This has always been the problem with e-bikes, make them as fast as mopeds then they have to be insured and have ugly licence plates etc etc, this is why this board is here in essence and is half the fun of it all, make your bike look like a normal bike, but have that power and speed on tap should you need it.
A lot of people wont agree with that, I used to think 30mph was too quick on a pushbike but after watching the Tour all this year I dont think it is, if the bikes well maintained and has good brakes then why not?
I am personally more exited about the old school tidal force bikes coming around again than the MS1 as they are much more affordable and usable as Richard Papa has already been demonstrating, If I had the money I would take his bike over any of mine.
It will be interesting to see how it all pans out, I just dont know, Optibike have found that the high end market is quite tricky to sell to, I think I would go for the optibike over this given the price, the optibike isnt as quick however but it looks the most like a normal MTB than most e-bikes, the stealth approach is worth consideration, I know the TF will be silent but its looks scream "I am a motorbike!"
Its great to see it though and I want to get behind the whole thing so my comments are only light weight, I am not really being critical just highlighting a few glitches in my opinion.
I may have to get down to the Bike Show in London!
Knoxie
Some very good points there I do agree, the Head light, whilst ugly may perform very well, I also agree that the Electric Moped VS Gas doesnt stack up on price for a start and the insurance mot tax thing, being "out of the loop" but with the ability to hit the same speeds as legal mopeds is the attraction for me, ok its technically not legal but its still attractive.
If a car driver could do the same I.E drive a car around running it on pennies of power with no tax insurance or MOT (Annual Inspections)with little or no chance of ever being caught I think most would go for it.
This has always been the problem with e-bikes, make them as fast as mopeds then they have to be insured and have ugly licence plates etc etc, this is why this board is here in essence and is half the fun of it all, make your bike look like a normal bike, but have that power and speed on tap should you need it.
A lot of people wont agree with that, I used to think 30mph was too quick on a pushbike but after watching the Tour all this year I dont think it is, if the bikes well maintained and has good brakes then why not?
I am personally more exited about the old school tidal force bikes coming around again than the MS1 as they are much more affordable and usable as Richard Papa has already been demonstrating, If I had the money I would take his bike over any of mine.
It will be interesting to see how it all pans out, I just dont know, Optibike have found that the high end market is quite tricky to sell to, I think I would go for the optibike over this given the price, the optibike isnt as quick however but it looks the most like a normal MTB than most e-bikes, the stealth approach is worth consideration, I know the TF will be silent but its looks scream "I am a motorbike!"
Its great to see it though and I want to get behind the whole thing so my comments are only light weight, I am not really being critical just highlighting a few glitches in my opinion.
I may have to get down to the Bike Show in London!
Knoxie
chicbicyclist
10 µW
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2007
- Messages
- 5
Speaking from a purely superficial standpoint: It looks too much like a halfbaked motorcycle to me, especially with that headlight.
With that said, I love the mint green/white combo. I just wish the frame itself and geometry wasn't too sporty looking.
With that said, I love the mint green/white combo. I just wish the frame itself and geometry wasn't too sporty looking.
Mark_A_W
100 kW
So it's got two batteries then? Lithium in the back and NiMH in the wheel?
Be nice if it was dual suspension...and had front gears, I use my front gears more than my rears now my bike is electrified
A step forward though. Not quite what I would have done, but impressive. I hope my company gets hired to develop an ebike one day - I could really get stuck into that
Be nice if it was dual suspension...and had front gears, I use my front gears more than my rears now my bike is electrified
A step forward though. Not quite what I would have done, but impressive. I hope my company gets hired to develop an ebike one day - I could really get stuck into that
CGameProgrammer
10 kW
A problem with these commercial e-bike attempts is that they can't decide if they want to market it as an alternative to a bicycle or to a motorscooter. Registering a motorcycle is very cheap, but if you want to avoid that and still be legal, you have to limit yourself to 30 mph at best, 20 mph in many places, etc.
Of course another concern here is the centrifugal forces experienced by the front-hub batteries as well as shocks from the road. That must be a limiting factor as well.
Of course another concern here is the centrifugal forces experienced by the front-hub batteries as well as shocks from the road. That must be a limiting factor as well.
Hi Richard
Sounds like a good plan! I should be able to make it down on one of the days so a ticket would be nice, I can come down on my motorbike no problem to get down there for me.
Cheers
P
Sounds like a good plan! I should be able to make it down on one of the days so a ticket would be nice, I can come down on my motorbike no problem to get down there for me.
Cheers
P
Papa Pro said:Knoxie,
I have tickets for you if you want to come to the UK bike show. You can give us a hand if you wish?
I am sure we can can loan you a TF-X for Christmas
miro13car
100 kW
Looks like Matra didn't manage to pack Lithium cells into front hub. Rear bat I assume is Lithium, weird combination.
You have 2 chemistry on the bike. Big, big draw back.
if you own TF you know what I mean. There's no secret - NMH in original TF was good for 3-4 /MAX/ seasons, I was dissapointed on my TF didn't last even 5 years on 4000dol bicycle.
NMH chemistry is the thing of the past, but Matra didn't make much effort to switch to Lithium in front hub.
Well, they didn't want to modify front hub BMS to Lithium specs????
You just should be NOT deceived by look.
Rear disc is overkill , regen on original TF is wondefully well regulated, too much here for the look.
I also wonder what they do with infamous fron data connector, absolute pain in the butt of all TF owners.
I had 100 and more problems with this connector constantly moving with fork and get loose and wet. Simply to carry 5V signal on the cable shaking on front fork all the time is engineering flaw. Did Matra finnaly immobilized connector ?
Wire ties are a joke in my view to hold this connecor in place.
Many TF owners including me dished front hub long time ago/Larry/ , why to carry 30 heavy NMH cells when you can carry just 10 of Lithium.
On TF forum many dreamed of heaving Lithium in the hub - Matra didn't delivered.
Miroslaw
You have 2 chemistry on the bike. Big, big draw back.
if you own TF you know what I mean. There's no secret - NMH in original TF was good for 3-4 /MAX/ seasons, I was dissapointed on my TF didn't last even 5 years on 4000dol bicycle.
NMH chemistry is the thing of the past, but Matra didn't make much effort to switch to Lithium in front hub.
Well, they didn't want to modify front hub BMS to Lithium specs????
You just should be NOT deceived by look.
Rear disc is overkill , regen on original TF is wondefully well regulated, too much here for the look.
I also wonder what they do with infamous fron data connector, absolute pain in the butt of all TF owners.
I had 100 and more problems with this connector constantly moving with fork and get loose and wet. Simply to carry 5V signal on the cable shaking on front fork all the time is engineering flaw. Did Matra finnaly immobilized connector ?
Wire ties are a joke in my view to hold this connecor in place.
Many TF owners including me dished front hub long time ago/Larry/ , why to carry 30 heavy NMH cells when you can carry just 10 of Lithium.
On TF forum many dreamed of heaving Lithium in the hub - Matra didn't delivered.
Miroslaw