New to E-Bike technology advice needed.

[neiltoe]

I just bought an Currie Skyline on Amazon and am using it for a 1.5 mile one way commuter to work. I love the experience and have nothing bad to say.

I am over weight and do have to peddle a lot and I am perfectly fine with that as I am hoping this will eventually lead to weight loss.

Here is my question. I would like to eventually change the mounted motor to a hub motor. Would anyone have any idea what that would take? The reason I want to make this change is aesthetics and also maybe a motor that is not so easy to overheat. Like I said I am over weight 300+ and the motor does struggle and cut off. Right now I am content with this drawback as it encourages me to peddle more. But the need to do a power reset will become a nuisance.

http://www.currietech.com/currie-technologies-ezip-skyline-for-men-electric-bike.php

Note to mods if the url is in violation please remove.

If pics are needed for follow ups please let me know.

 

[dogman dan]

Keep on pedaling, it's amazing what even faux pedaling can do to rev up the metabolisim. The key thing is going for longer and longer rides, till your body gets used to riding for an hour or more at a time regularly.

Because you are heavier than I, we need to know how steep the hills you are riding up are. You can find out on various route mapping sites. Map my ride is one of them. If the hills are really steep, you would want to get a motor more able to handle riding slow up steep hills.

But if your hills are moderate, such as 5% grade, then any regular direct drive ebike kit would bolt right onto your frame and give you 1000w of hill climbing power. Unfortunately, the upgrade would involve a costly new 48v battery. It's not likely your current battery would last very long running a more powerful motor.

Still well worth the cost, typicaly around $1000-1500 to put together a truly usefull ebike with 25 mph speed and 20 miles of range.

 

[neiltoe]

I actually am happy with the speeds I achieve. The grades are minimal but do tax the motor to cut off at least one time on the way home. I do not have any issues with peddling and I am hoping to see results because of it. I just was hoping to find a hub motor to replace the frame mounted motor. It is really all about appearance and a little bit about when I walk it into work I forget it is there and knock merchandise over.

 

[ecowheelz]

The problem with putting a hub motor on this model is, the controller is designed for the externally mounted Currie motor. I'm not sure you could switch the motor without switching the controller, since all hub motors have phase wires. Maybe one of the more technical experts could chime in... but I'm pretty sure it can't be done (without a new controller).

Keep in mind, when you switch the controller, none of the connectors for the throttle, e-brakes, etc. will match and you'll probably have to hardwire them back in.

This leads to the second issue, if you're going to all the trouble to switch out the motor and controller, do you really want to keep it a 24V system? If you're worried about too much strain on the motor, keeping it at 24V is going to result in the same heating issues (with a large rider) -- even with a hub motor. If you move up to 36V, you'll need a new battery and you'll be basically replacing the whole system...

Might be worth eventually selling the bike and starting with a fresh conversion -- or a more powerful e-bike...

 

[neiltoe]

Well said and point taken I might just have to accept it for what it is. I was just hopeful that I could find a simple swap. I actually love the bike for what it is just want a little less attention when people see it. I don't know if I don't like explaining the whole system to everyone or I am just hoping that it will be less desirable to thieves. Either way walking into my job with it gets me bombarded with queries and parking it chained up outside is just too risky.

 

[Joe Perez]

While I'm not an expert on Currie hardware, to the best of my knowledge they use brushed DC motors.

Most, if not all, of the common in-hub motors which are available are of a brushless design, and require a different style of controller to operate. (A brushless controller is essentially a three-phase inverter, whereas a brushed controller is just a simple on/off switcher.)

Obviously controllers are both cheap and readily available, but it is one more thing you'd need to add to the build. The combination of a MAC or BMC "torque wound" internally-geared hubmotor would probably represent an upgrade for your bike, although your 24 volt battery is definitely a weak link- the vast majority of systems using hubmotors such as I've mentioned are configured to operate at 36v or 48v, and at higher currents that the Currie battery is likely capable of supplying.

All told, I'm certain that it could be made to work. Were I in your position, however, I would seriously consider selling the complete bike as-is, purchasing a new non-motorized bike, and converting it to electric using a complete kit from a vendor such as http://emissions-free.com/ (In fact, this is precisely what I am currently in the process of doing for myself.)

 

[neiltoe]

Thanks for the advice to both of you. I will just accept it as-is for now. When I am ready for the bigger better I will have read and researched this forum (wonderful resource btw).

 

[dogman dan]

Yes, a hubmotor uprgade pretty much means a start over, including the battery as well.

As you begin reading the library, one thing you will see over and over is talk about motor damage from climbing hills too slowly. At some speed, each motor setup will be climing up a very steep hill too slow. This leads to the motor overheating, because all the energy will be making heat if it cannot make motion. Stalling the motor is the term.

I know you aren't in shape yet, but do try to push the pedals a bit harder on that hill that pops your cutoff. The sooner you get into shape and can help the motor better, the better chance you have of not frying the thing this summer.

Make the time to ride the bike the long way home after work, and get a bit longer ride in each evening so you get a 20 min workout, at an easy heart rate still, each night.

Later on, when you are ready to upgrade, we can suggest some hubmotor types that will climb hills well, with 1000w of power, yet not have to be too fast for your comfort level. The slow motor to climb steep hills has been one of my main desires, and I know how to do it. Look for my threads about 2810 and 2812 9 continent motors for info on hubmotors for hills.

 

[neiltoe]

Thank you for the response and the positive advice. I was hoping that the Power assist mode was better than it is but do try to increase my peddling more progressively. As for speed comfort I am fine I was a daily motorcycle rider for a decade. Got to love the weather in New Mexico.

 

[Tommy L]

I just built a bike using a 9C 2810 purchased from Methods.

Here is my Build Thread:
http://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39480&hilit=2810

DOGMAN is absolutely correct. It's 1500 USD to do it right.

You won't be disappointed.

On my above build thread bike, I use it for working out. Nice to do 55kph/30mph and I pedal like crazy and play games with
the Cycle Analyst on how much power I can save while I pedal. lol
It Fun, Enjoyable, and gets me off this darn computer! lol
Happy riding/building/fitness to you!

Tommy L sends... \\m//

 

[neiltoe]

Thank you again for the solid advice.

I just wanna spew some random thoughts out here as having this eBike has changed a lot of my thinking.

Does anyone have any resources for maybe using farad capacitors and a gearing system for direct drive eBikes? I was thinking about when I used to play with car stereos that I could see my whole power system bottom out on a big bass section and how I used a farad cap to compensate. This might be useful on a full throttle take off. Would that be applicable to these sort of systems? Also since we peddle through a gear system couldn't an external motor be configured with a gear system to improve ratios?

Please don't think I am crazy for these questions.

 

[skaplan]

Thank you again for the solid advice.

I just wanna spew some random thoughts out here as having this eBike has changed a lot of my thinking.

Does anyone have any resources for maybe using farad capacitors and a gearing system for direct drive eBikes? I was thinking about when I used to play with car stereos that I could see my whole power system bottom out on a big bass section and how I used a farad cap to compensate. This might be useful on a full throttle take off. Would that be applicable to these sort of systems? Also since we peddle through a gear system couldn't an external motor be configured with a gear system to improve ratios?

Please don't think I am crazy for these questions.

I can't answer the first question about the electrical stuff, but there are plenty of guys driving through the gears in the E-Bike Non-hub Motor Drives section. Look for anything like chain drive, mid-drive, through the cranks, and RC (motor, not just LiPo).

 

[Tommy L]

Thank you again for the solid advice.

I just wanna spew some random thoughts out here as having this eBike has changed a lot of my thinking.

Does anyone have any resources for maybe using farad capacitors and a gearing system for direct drive eBikes? I was thinking about when I used to play with car stereos that I could see my whole power system bottom out on a big bass section and how I used a farad cap to compensate. This might be useful on a full throttle take off. Would that be applicable to these sort of systems? Also since we peddle through a gear system couldn't an external motor be configured with a gear system to improve ratios?

Please don't think I am crazy for these questions.

Apparently you will/would be better off doubling up your battery pack than adding Caps. On a hard take-off your Cycle Analyst should be
set that you are not using more than between 2500-3000 watts. So..... build your battery pack accordingly. Not worth the weight of carrying
the caps and put that weight into more capacity of a bigger battery pack.

If you decide to run 48 volts at 10amp hours and you want to do hard pulls off the line because you have many stops and starts, then run 48 volts at 20amp hours.

I'm hoping that you know what "C" rating means. If a 48v 10a/h pack is rated at 2C, then the max you should pull from the pack should be 48v @ 20amps which would be 48 x 20 =960 watts to the motor. A pack of 48v 20a/h that is rated at 2C then your max 48v x 40amps = 1920 watts to the motor.

In other words... a/h x C number is max current the pack can provide without damage.

10 ah pack at 2c is 20amp max draw at your packs voltage (The 2c packs are usually the beginner pack that is solid if used correctly... like PING Packs)
20 ah pack at 2c is 40amp max draw at your packs voltage

if the pack is rated at 30c and you have 10ah...... you are talking about 300amps! at your pack voltage, and if that voltage is 48v you've got 14,400 watts
to your motor and most ebike motors would be melted! Let alone 600 plus dollars for a controller to handle the 300amps!
This is either the a123 packs or the Zippy packs. Caution must be taken and understanding battery technology is a must! For your safety and others around you and yours or others property!

This electric bike stuff is awesome! Read! Learn! Apply what you've learned! Make mistakes! Get better on each build!
Most people here build more than one. I've built 4 and ready for 5! lol

Lots of great info here!
Tommy L sends...\\m//

 

[neiltoe]

Again thank you for the wonderful write up.

 

[Tommy L]

Again thank you for the wonderful write up.

You are most welcome. Did you get a chance to read my 4th build thread? and other build threads?

viewtopic.php?f=4&t=39480&hilit=2810

Also, how is your knowledge on battery voltage, amp hours, watt hours etc... ?

Lots of helpful people here to get you on your way.

Take care...

Tommy L sends... \\m//

 

[neiltoe]

I have had a busy last few days. I am gonna just calm down for now on the eBike thinking. I will wait until I have the funds to start reading up again.

 

[Tommy L]

I have had a busy last few days. I am gonna just calm down for now on the eBike thinking. I will wait until I have the funds to start reading up again.

Never stop reading here! If you keep reading, you will have enough knowledge when you have monies to do a purchase \

Tommy L sends....

 

[neiltoe]

Thanks for the advice again. I am spending more time reading and learning. I really would like to improve my current bike.

The only thing that I really dislike about my bike is that it won't climb a mild grade without resetting. I have to stop and turn it off and on again. This does get annoying. I really am not too concerned about going faster I just want a more reliable ride.

I was wondering if anyone could help me understand some things. What is causing my current Currie configuration to shut down when under load? Is it the controller just being protective? Is it the motor itself? What is a solution other than avoiding WOT or using PAS all the time? I really don't want to replace every component to over come this annoyance.

If pics or anything is needed to help you to help me figure out an answer please let me know. I of course would like to do the easiest modification with the least amount of money and alteration to my bike as possible.

 

[dnmun]

we have no idea what your configuration is. you say it is currie so i am assuming you have the SLA pack that comes with the currie technology bikes.

is that correct? can you access the batteries and measure the voltage on the batteries? do you have a voltmeter?

you should find the controller and look on the controller to see what the LVC is. it will be printed on the controller.

if you can take good close up pictures of your individual wiring connections then we can guess about the quality of the repair work that has been done.

 

[neiltoe]

Currie Skyline 24v Lithium pack that is attached to the seat tube I'll go take some pics.

 

[dogman dan]

Likely your battery is getting weak, or maybe always was too weak. When you pull a heavy load, you are tripping the bms.

 

[neiltoe]

Ok BMS? and too weak. Now the battery has always lasted 15 miles and still does. Do you think a battery upgrade would be a solution?

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/neiltoe/2012-08-21_12-31-28_580.jpg
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa49/neiltoe/2012-08-21_12-32-39_912.jpg

 

[neiltoe]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the bike I think I just over work it. I am heavy set and I exceed the recommended weight significantly.

 

[neiltoe]

http://www.gngebike.com/new250wbrushed.htm

How about using the Currie set up but a mid drive motor configuration to use my existing gears to compensate?

 

[docnjoj]

I don't think there is anything wrong with the bike I think I just over work it. I am heavy set and I exceed the recommended weight significantly.

There is a member here, DarkAngel who has modified Curry bikes for more power and speed. Depending on your size and weight you may simply need more power. The Currie brushed motors that you show are quite powerful with their internal gear system. Interesting about mid-mounts as I had not seen that particular kit before. Usually the noise level would turn me off but I understand the newer My16 and My18z motors are quiter. The Lithium battery that you show is not a great one for power or longevity.
otherDoc