(NOOB) new 48v lifepo4 will not charge

[Subfightr]

Hello all, I recently recieved my 48V 20AH LiFePO4 battery, this is it http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=280365660468&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOIBSA:US:1123 (link). The charger that came with it has chinese writing on it, I can't read chinese. When I first plugged the charger into the wall the red light on the charger flashed and kept on flashing, I was worried... Shrugged my shoulders, and plugged my battery into the charger, then the chargers green light came on and the fan as well (I think the red light was on too) so I assume it was charging.

I took the bike out for a spin, (this is my kit) http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220455888441&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123 *Electric bicycle kit 48V 1000W* I maintained 32 mph fine for about 4 blocks then.. it shut off. I hopped off, disconnected the battery, plugged it back in and it turned back on, got her up to 10 mph and it shuts off, it does this 4 more times, disconnecting, reconnecting, dead at 7-10 mph, before I just road it like a normal person back home.

Assuming perhaps the battery is dead I go to plug it into the charger and the plug connected to the BMS where the charger connects to fell off in my hand. I repaired it, plugged it back into the charger and nothing happens, no lights, no fan, no nothing. I unplug the charger in an attempt to recreate the odd red flashing light when first plugged in and nothing happens, no flashing light, plugged it back into the battery still nothing. Any suggestions? What can I test or check? What do I look for etc, thank you so much in advance!

It would be great if we had a trouble shooting section on this forum.

 

[dnmun]

this forum is pretty much all trouble shooting. do you even have a voltmeter or digital camera so we could figure out what you are talking about?

 

[Subfightr]

Yes I have a multi meter, I can get a digital cam, I was hoping the links provided would be enough as it is the same battery and kit. I can get you pics though.

 

[Subfightr]

Here is a video if that helps. Man, youtube degrades the hell out of video, I have never made one before but it looked way better before it was uploaded, I hope you can see whats goin on.

EDIT AGH I forgot to add the youtube link ... here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guXaViU4ll0

 

[dnmun]

what is the voltage on the battery?

 

[Subfightr]

Sorry I meant to add that, I added it in the youtube clip. When I tested the battey it read 48.8 volts.

 

[dnmun]

sounds like your pack is way low so you need to fix your plug and charge it up. maybe after it balances the low cell won't shut you down any more.

 

[Subfightr]

Thank you for the responces. I have repaired the plug, and it will not charge. When I plug it into the charger nothing happens, no lights no fan, nothing.

 

[BMI]

Thank you for the responces. I have repaired the plug, and it will not charge. When I plug it into the charger nothing happens, no lights no fan, nothing.

It looks like your charger is faulty. If you are reading zero volts with your multimeter measuring between the two power pins at the charger plug (as well as no LED indications of any kind) would indicate the charger has been damaged.

 

[Subfightr]

DAMNIT. I take it you viewed the video, thanks. Anyway as I was saying... DAMNIT, this is just what I was afraid of, I could buy another charger for the price it would cost me to ship it back to the person I got it from in china, not to mention it would take like 2 months to get it from him... ARGH. I have another charger for my previous Ebike which had 4, 12 volt SLA's. if I were to modify the connector so it can be plugged into the battery would this work? To sum up, I would be plugging in the charger which was used for SLA batteries into my LifePo4 battery. Bad idea?

Thank you for replying.

 

[Rassy]

Hi Subfightr, I agree with BMI. Just wanted to say, it is important that you do not use your battery until it is charged properly. You would risk cell damage if it is discharged too far, although the BMS should prevent the problem.

In your initial post you stated the LED's lit up, but apparently they don't anymore. Normally you should expect one of the LED's to go to solid red while charging, and go to green when charge is completed.

I couldn't tell from your video, but did you get a battery voltage reading on the battery end of the charger plug, and was that voltage reading the same as on the controller connectors from the battery?

It could be that the charger shorted (the bad wire?) and a fuse inside the charger has blown (if it has one). Make sure the charger didn't blow the 110 circuit and is getting power in. I did have a charger once that would not show voltage out until hooked to the battery, but most will show voltage out when tested like you did. It you get this or another charger working, be sure to check the polarity between the charger and battery before plugging them together.

Maybe one of the Seatle forum members is close enough to assist with a spare 48V charger. Even an SLA charger will work until you can get a new LiFePO4 charger, if that is what is needed.

Good luck.

Edit: In your above post you said you had a 48V SLA charger, and yes you can use that to charge your battery. Just be sure to check the polarity before plugging it in (with your modified plug). This charger will not charge high enough to fully balance your battery, but will give a good enough charge to safely use the battery.

 

[dnmun]

the charger has to put out at least 58-59V or the battery will not balance. you already know you have a low cell that shut down the BMS so you have to keep cycling through multiple charging cycles until you get it up even with the others.

you never said if you even charged it up the first time, just that the charging light came on and then later you said the charger didn't work. in the middle was stuff about how you repaired the plug. can you show in a picture what you did to repair the plug? did you check the fuse if there is no power light on in the charger?

 

[Subfightr]

Hello Rassy, I tested the voltage at the end of the male plug coming from my BMI which is to be plugged into the charger. The reading varies; when I tested it about an HR ago it was 7.3 and climbing slowly. Now it is 12.8, then 13.6, 13.7, 13.8 … Defiantly not 48 volts.
The charger is plugged into a surge protector and the outlet is in working order.

(bows) -Sub

 

[Subfightr]

the charger has to put out at least 58-59V or the battery will not balance. you already know you have a low cell that shut down the BMS so you have to keep cycling through multiple charging cycles until you get it up even with the others.

you never said if you even charged it up the first time, just that the charging light came on and then later you said the charger didn't work. in the middle was stuff about how you repaired the plug. can you show in a picture what you did to repair the plug? did you check the fuse if there is no power light on in the charger?

I assumed it was charging thats all I can tell you, I plugged it in and the lights were on, when I returned and they were off I hoped it was off because it was fully charged not because it was dead.

Fuse, I am not aware of a fuse, it this to be inside the charger? BMI? I can't get you a picture at the moment, the best I can get you is what was in the video, I stripped the wire, wrapped it around the post and then put heat shrink tube on it both the wires and the post. (I think its called heat shrink?) This is what was originally done to the battey when I recieved it from the Ebay seller. I just redid it.

 

[Subfightr]

LOL I wrote the Ebay seller, this is what he had to say.

"Hi friend,

Sorry to hear this, now pls try is as below step:

First: charger connect the battery
Second: charger plug the power

Your can find the the red light work only, this time means it was charging,after about 7 hours, you can find the green light work, it means battry fully.

Please feel free to email me if you have any comments

Many thanks"

..... Needless to say, I did this, and it did not work. LOL

 

[Rassy]

I tested the voltage at the end of the male plug coming from my BMI which is to be plugged into the charger. The reading varies; when I tested it about an HR ago it was 7.3 and climbing slowly. Now it is 12.8, then 13.6, 13.7, 13.8 … Defiantly not 48 volts.
The charger is plugged into a surge protector and the outlet is in working order.

This is beyond my knowledge. On my basic Ping V1 BMS's, the voltage at this point is always equal to the pack voltage. Some Battery Management Systems may work differently. Maybe one of the real experts here can give you some more guideance.

 

[Subfightr]

now he seller says "Hi friend,

Sorry to hear this, if the charger really doesn't work, do you want me to send a new one to you?

The 3A charger have been stop to sell by now,because of the quality from the producer, would you want to replace 5A? just add more usd20, the quality is batter than 3A more.

That is ok for you?

B,regards"

ha!... Life sucks... Is this a good deal?

 

[dnmun]

you need a charger, if you can fix the one you have then you could still use it. by rule of the inverse murphy's law, your current charger will not work until you order a new one.

 

[Subfightr]

you need a charger, if you can fix the one you have then you could still use it. by rule of the inverse murphy's law, your current charger will not work until you order a new one.

Lol aint that the truth! Now i'm a little leery though, is there like a trustworthy brand or are they all from china and just a matter of dumb luck?

I suppose I will open up the charger and see if there is a fuse inside, it does not work right now, I can't make it any more broken. Man this blows.. 1,000 bucks into this and I can't even use it.

I suppose after I get a new charger and the bike works (fingers crossed) it will get stolen the moment I park it. Or I will get hit by a car... AGAIN, which is why I had to order a new kit and battery. A young girl struck me with her car, she blew a stop sign. I flew over her hood and smashed her window, she ran over my bike, and froze. I shot up off the pavement in fight or flight mode and came briskly walking to them, the passenger yells "OH shit go go go " and off they went.

If it were not for bad luck.. (shakes head in disgust) Thanks for your time guys/gals. I really appreciate it.

 

[Subfightr]

Ok so I took the pos charger apart and sure enough inside is a blown fuse that is soldered on to the board. Seeing as this is a 3 amp charger I suppose I just replace it with a 3 amp fuse?

 

[liveforphysics]

If the fuse is on the input power to the charger, then a 3 amp fuse might be fine. If it's on the output side of the charger, I would use at least an 8amp fuse.

Sometimes the polarity is mixed around between the charge plug on the battery and the charger. You need to ensure they are correctly matched before plugging in the battery. Once you do get the battery connected and charging, let it charge for a long time for the first few charges, to make sure all the cells get balanced correctly.

You into freestyle submissions? BJJ or other JJ? I train at AMC in Kirkland once in a while. Just at a hobby level, I'm not into getting punched in the face much , so I mainly just roll and work on sub technique and sub defense at about 5/10ths. Ground fighting is a very deep and intellectual sport, like a freestyle chess match of physics and leverage. It's a shame it has such a bad reputation.

 

[dnmun]

replace the fuse with an identical fuse. there is something wrong and the fuse is trying to tell you to stop and fix it. you need to solve the problem which caused it to short out before replacing the fuse. or it will blow again. you can read the fuse value stamped on the end cap.

 

[dogman dan]

Meanwhile, your 48v sla charger will charger the pack, but not balance it. New batteries come pretty unbalanced, till the cells break in. So ride short, and charge 24 hrs a day till you get a better charger. If sending 20 bucks will get the vendor to send you a good one then do so. Chargers are made in a way that often causes them to break in shipment. They are sorta delicate, so chargers shipped from china can fail immediately.

 

[Subfightr]

To Liveforphysics: I used to compete in Pancrase from 1994=2000 and boxing previously. I was forced to stop due to a chronic illness (ulcerative colitis) and a dislocated jaw that has never been the same sense. Word of advice in this sport, keep your hands up, and when you shoot… try not to close your eyes… AMC, isint that Hume’s place? Have you met him before? What’s he like? You can PM me so we don’t waste these good peoples time. Anyway, thanks for the info regarding the fuse and I’m glad you roll dude, that’s great  Science = MMA don’t get much better than that, good for you man 

To everyone else, thank you so much for your time and input. I have done as recommended and cut up my 48v 1.5a SLA charger and made it work. I will pay the 20 bucks, and replace the fuse.

Dogman, have you any pics of your schwinn cruiser? My bike is a cruiser as well, wondering how you hit the wires, if at all.

 

[liveforphysics]

After you replace the fuse, double check the polarity (+-) at the connectors with your multi-meter. I know it seems like a no-brainer that they would get +- right at the factory, but there have been a few cases I've heard of where the factory botched that, and it tends to either pop the fuse, or cause the controller to burn up. The $20 for a more powerful charger sounds like a very good deal IMO.

Yep,it's Matt Hume's place. When he is there, he instructs the more advanced classes and does more specialized 1on1 training. My class always has other instructors, who are way more than adquate for my low skill level, and are pretty friendly most of the time. Rich Franklin seems to train there every couple months, along with a few other serious MMA guys, but of course not in my newb level classes. lol

Sorry to hear about your jaw. I hate getting punched in the jaw and in the nose. Ear, temple, forehead, eye, body (except liver/kidneys), is not so bad. Jaw and nose always makes me wonder why I'm doing what I'm doing, and it's just gentle contact practice with extra padding. Rough sports are tough to stay in for as many years as you did before something happens that spoils the fun. I can't imagine how mentally and physically tough a person needs to be to take repeated 10/10ths punches from a pro right in the nose and jaw over and over. That's why I stick with rolling, worst you end up with is bruises and sore joints and muscles. It's also amazing how reach can become a disadvantage in ground fighting, and how technique can so easily defeat a physically stronger opponent. Ground fighting is won with brain power and science rather than speed and power like stand-up.

Do you have some vids of your fights?